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Pics now work because I downloaded the pics from OP's photobucket and directly hosted them on the forum. Did this conversion for ease of maintenance and aesthetics back in like.. 2006. Changing drum brakes sucks. They also look like crap behind rims. lol
Both assemblies weigh close to each other, not enough of a difference for me to notice back then. Alls I remember is they were both kinda heavy.
Braking efficiency didn't change much, but then again, rear brakes aren't relied on as heavily as fronts in normal braking situations. I also didn't swap out the proportioning valve, so that may have caused my lack of notice. Parking brake held well, and that's really what the rear brakes are mainly used for. I think I changed those pads.. twice in 14 years?
It is recommended that you swap the EM2/ES1 proportioning valve for the EP3, but I ran for 14 years without doing so. An excerpt from that thread
I believe non abs cars will require a new proportioning valve although I can't confirm this. EX models don't need one, the ABS takes care of it.
02-03 EP3's came with 4x100 hubs, so you can use those to not go 5-lug conversion.
For a cost perspective, it cost me about $500 to do the swap. Bought a knuckle assembly off a member here for $400 and a set of RSX e-brake cables from.. clubrsx.com (?) for $100. Took me about 4 hours in my dad's driveway to complete the swap. I should note that the RSX e-brake cables were a huge pain in the *** to install. In the factory brackets, they were a hair short to reach from the e-brake assembly to the rear knuckles. I had to open the brackets a little bit and take up the slack, as well as "round out" any harsh-ish angles the cable took as it routed to the rear. Worked in the end with no inadvertent application of rear brakes nor did those pads wear down oddly. Also, I can personally confirm that the EP3 and EM2 VSS in the rear hubs are interchangeable. The assembly I bought had the wires cut for the VSS, so I took a chance and bolted my EM2 ones to the EP3 hubs, and it worked just fine with no issues.
Last edited by xRiCeBoYx; Jan 5, 2018 at 01:41 PM.
Pics don't work because photobucket sucks. Did this conversion for ease of maintenance and aesthetics back in like.. 2006. Changing drum brakes sucks. They also look like crap behind rims. lol
Both assemblies weigh close to each other, not enough of a difference for me to notice back then. Alls I remember is they were both kinda heavy.
Braking efficiency didn't change much, but then again, rear brakes aren't relied on as heavily as fronts in normal braking situations. I also didn't swap out the proportioning valve, so that may have caused my lack of notice. Parking brake held well, and that's really what the rear brakes are mainly used for. I think I changed those pads.. twice in 14 years?
It is recommended that you swap the EM2/ES1 proportioning valve for the EP3, but I ran for 14 years without doing so. An excerpt from that thread
02-03 EP3's came with 4x100 hubs, so you can use those to not go 5-lug conversion.
For a cost perspective, it cost me about $500 to do the swap. Bought a knuckle assembly off a member here for $400 and a set of RSX e-brake cables from.. clubrsx.com (?) for $100. Took me about 4 hours in my dad's driveway to complete the swap. I should note that the RSX e-brake cables were a huge pain in the *** to install. In the factory brackets, they were a hair short to reach from the e-brake assembly to the rear knuckles. I had to open the brackets a little bit and take up the slack, as well as "round out" any harsh-ish angles the cable took as it routed to the rear. Worked in the end with no inadvertent application of rear brakes nor did those pads wear down oddly. Also, I can personally confirm that the EP3 and EM2 VSS in the rear hubs are interchangeable. The assembly I bought had the wires cut for the VSS, so I took a chance and bolted my EM2 ones to the EP3 hubs, and it worked just fine with no issues.
Thanks for the information. Would you possibly be interested in selling your disc brake setup since you are parting out the car? Also, even though there were no major changes in stopping performance, did it stop ANY better/differently after the swap? Thanks again for the information!
Nothing terribly notable during normal braking operations. Brakes still able to save my *** in various situations. E-brake felt different on application, but that could be a byproduct of the "stretched" e-brake cable and how I had it adjusted.
As for selling my setup, if you were local or within reasonable driving distance, I'd consider it. Car's being donated Monday though.
It is recommended that you swap the EM2/ES1 proportioning valve for the EP3, but I ran for 14 years without doing so. An excerpt from that thread
I believe non abs cars will require a new proportioning valve although I can't confirm this. EX models don't need one, the ABS takes care of it.
Oh, true, I had forgotten that.. ABS equal if rears try to lock, it will kick in and remove dangerous issue. I still remember when my car was lifting the rear wheel and the ABS went crazy while left-foot braking in the corners at the autoX...
Nothing terribly notable during normal braking operations. Brakes still able to save my *** in various situations. E-brake felt different on application, but that could be a byproduct of the "stretched" e-brake cable and how I had it adjusted.
As for selling my setup, if you were local or within reasonable driving distance, I'd consider it. Car's being donated Monday though.
Would you ship the brake setup if I pay the shipping?
If I had a spare drum brake setup laying around, I'd have no issue doing so. I can't donate a stripped down car. According to the car donation place's website, they won't take it. I'm pretty sure I've stripped it down enough to make them question things (intake missing and replaced with piece of turbo charge piping with an air filter attached to it, passenger seat removed)
It's your car, you can do what you want to it.
IDK if you will notice anything different or not.
UPDATE: I took it off and I don't notice anything different at all. I weighed them and the large one on the back of the subframe weighs 5.2 pounds, and the little one on the front of the subframe weighs 1 pound, for a total weight saving of 6.2 pounds. I have yet to remove the little round one from the back of the subframe, but I will weigh it and update this thread when I do. Thanks for your help.
I just finished replacing my front struts, strut mounts, and outer tie rod ends. I also installed Energy Suspension front control arm bushings and I installed lowering springs. I will be changing the back struts soon too. The car drives so much better, but I am concerned that I may have thrown off the alignment. I don't want to cause my new Michelin Premier A/S tires to wear out, but I would rather not pay for an alignment if I don't actually need to. What should I do? Thanks.
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Re: Do I need an alignment?
Absolutely!
Alignment needs after replacing the rear struts will depend on how you take it apart.
If you can get the strut out and in by only removing 2 nuts at the top and one bolt at the bottom, alignment doesn't change. If you have to take apart anything else in the rear suspension to get the job done, it will need aligned.
If you lowered it or changed ride height, it needs aligned.
Yea , I would suggest to get an alignment. You may ruin your tires if you don't and decide to wait to long and drive a lot.
But if your not going to be going long distances or using the car a lot until you install the rear struts then it won't hurt to wait. as long as the car isn't being driving then the tires should not wear.
Alignment needs after replacing the rear struts will depend on how you take it apart.
If you can get the strut out and in by only removing 2 nuts at the top and one bolt at the bottom, alignment doesn't change. If you have to take apart anything else in the rear suspension to get the job done, it will need aligned.
If you lowered it or changed ride height, it needs aligned.
Thanks. I forgot to add that the car drives perfectly straight after I did the work, and the steering wheel is still straight. Just curious- How did installing lowering springs change the alignment, and which angles did it change? I only lowered it 1.5 inches, so I did not cause an excessive amount of camber. I do not believe that the camber is adjustable anyway, but please correct me if I am wrong. As for the caster, I didn't see a way to adjust it, but I wouldn't think lowering it would change the caster anyway. Even if it did, caster won't cause tire wear AFAIK. I don't see how the toe would be effected by any of the work I did, and toe is obviously the alignment angle that causes the most tire wear. Thanks again for your help.
Yea , I would suggest to get an alignment. You may ruin your tires if you don't and decide to wait to long and drive a lot.
But if your not going to be going long distances or using the car a lot until you install the rear struts then it won't hurt to wait. as long as the car isn't being driving then the tires should not wear.
I don't drive a lot, so that should help. Thanks for your help.
any differences between before and after, like slightly in or out when tightening the crash bolts, and the distance to teh steering rack changes and toe is compromised.
suspension basics for your question on ahngle change when lowering:
rear is a multi-link, so the lower you go, the more negative camber it gets. this will also slightly change toe depending on ride height.
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Re: Do I need an alignment?
As ride height changes, toe changes--that's designed in to the suspension geometry. Most vehicles will increase toe-in as the suspension compresses (ride height lowers) because that increases steering stability with a heavy load.
You didn't change the weight, but you made the suspension act as though you did.
The act of unbolting and reinstalling even the same strut can allow significant change to camber...There is enough room (or slop) between the two horizontal bolts and the round bolt holes in the knuckle and strut, that allows typically at least 1/2 degree of camber change possible on each side of the car (go ahead and try it if you want).....and that camber change will greatly affect toe (1/2 degree per side might be typical but can vary greatly from car to car), and toe will cause wear if it's not damn close to target (zero, plus or minus 3mm)
Back in the olden days when I was in training, the rule of thumb was
"If toe is off by a quarter inch, the tire will be dragged sideways 11 feet per mile"
I doubt you would be able to eyeball if your front tires are actually set perfectly straight dead ahead, or if they are off by 1/4".
Same for eyeballing camber.....and a a half degree difference between sides can be enough to cause a pull.
You can't eyeball or tape measure to find caster at all.
I don't see how the toe would be effected by any of the work I did,
It doesn't matter if you don't understand how or why. Trust me, it can be affected greatly.
Or 'bigly', if that suits you LOL
As ride height changes, toe changes--that's designed in to the suspension geometry. Most vehicles will increase toe-in as the suspension compresses (ride height lowers) because that increases steering stability with a heavy load.
You didn't change the weight, but you made the suspension act as though you did.
The act of unbolting and reinstalling even the same strut can allow significant change to camber...There is enough room (or slop) between the two horizontal bolts and the round bolt holes in the knuckle and strut, that allows typically at least 1/2 degree of camber change possible on each side of the car (go ahead and try it if you want).....and that camber change will greatly affect toe (1/2 degree per side might be typical but can vary greatly from car to car), and toe will cause wear if it's not damn close to target (zero, plus or minus 3mm)
Back in the olden days when I was in training, the rule of thumb was
"If toe is off by a quarter inch, the tire will be dragged sideways 11 feet per mile"
I doubt you would be able to eyeball if your front tires are actually set perfectly straight dead ahead, or if they are off by 1/4".
Same for eyeballing camber.....and a a half degree difference between sides can be enough to cause a pull.
You can't eyeball or tape measure to find caster at all.
It doesn't matter if you don't understand how or why. Trust me, it can be affected greatly.
Or 'bigly', if that suits you LOL
If you want to be sure it's right, do it right.
I think I understand now. So lowering it increases toe because the suspension thinks that the car has a very heavy load when it’s lowered, so it corrects by adding toe and increasing negative camber. Am I correct? If so, that makes sense. Thank you very much for explaining.
I cracked the oil pan pan on my 2005 Civic and it is leaking a small amount of oil onto the exhaust pipe, causing smoke. Is this a huge problem? I know that I need to fix it, but it’s cold and rainy here, which is not good weather to be laying under the car. Is it safe to wait to fix this? It is a very small leak. I don’t think that the exhaust on these engines gets hot enough to ignite oil. If it did, I think that these cars would be burning down all the time since it’s impossible to change the oil filter without oil getting on the exhaust. Is this leak a big deal? Thanks.
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Re: Can oil leaking onto the exhaust cause a fire?
Years ago we had a recall on a model for an oil leak that could get onto the catalytic converter and start a fire.
A local JizzyLube had a car burn to the ground after doing an oil change where the filter got 'double gasketed' and the resulting leak got onto the cat and started a fire.
Re: Can oil leaking onto the exhaust cause a fire?
Originally Posted by ezone
Years ago we had a recall on a model for an oil leak that could get onto the catalytic converter and start a fire.
A local JizzyLube had a car burn to the ground after doing an oil change where the filter got 'double gasketed' and the resulting leak got onto the cat and started a fire.
Was the recall on a Honda? Also, the cat gets much hotter than the rest of the system, so oil leaking to the cat is more likely to cause a fire.
honestly, I used Firestone (lifetime alignment) - but the tech i liked moved on.
When i need something specific, I use a shop that the autocrossers uses (about 200/250 for precision alignment), but the 7th gen would not make much use of that unless you have camber bolts for fronts and camber arms in the rear. So, any alignment shop that you can find with a not so bad review...
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Re: Can oil leaking onto the exhaust cause a fire?
Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
Was the recall on a Honda?
Yes. 2003-07 Accord V6 power steering hose replacement, and the recall is not really all that old I just hadn't seen any for quite a while..........but since I mentioned it, the schedule at work says I have one to do tomorrow morning LOL
Also, the cat gets much hotter than the rest of the system, so oil leaking to the cat is more likely to cause a fire.
True, but not always the case. The exhaust gets hot everywhere.
Can 1000 degrees F start a fire? 800? 600?
A loaded engine can make a manifold glow, don't you think that's hot enough to start a fire?
Other manufacturers have recalls for leaks that can cause a fire.
GM 3.8 V6 valve cover gasket comes to mind right away, and its catalytic converter is not anywhere near problem area: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...5V701-1922.pdf
Re: Can oil leaking onto the exhaust cause a fire?
Originally Posted by ezone
Yes. 2003-07 Accord V6 power steering hose replacement, and the recall is not really all that old I just hadn't seen any for quite a while..........but since I mentioned it, the schedule at work says I have one to do tomorrow morning LOL
True, but not always the case. The exhaust gets hot everywhere.
Can 1000 degrees F start a fire? 800? 600?
A loaded engine can make a manifold glow, don't you think that's hot enough to start a fire?
Other manufacturers have recalls for leaks that can cause a fire.
GM 3.8 V6 valve cover gasket comes to mind right away, and its catalytic converter is not anywhere near problem area: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...5V701-1922.pdf
So if I put my engine under a heavy load, I can make the header glow? I never noticed that. Thanks for explaining.
Re: Can oil leaking onto the exhaust cause a fire?
Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
So if I put my engine under a heavy load, I can make the header glow? I never noticed that. Thanks for explaining.
Like when towing another civic with your civic :P (Sorry, couldn't resist - life is like a volleyball game - someone lifts the ball, another is bound to wack it down, LOL!)
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Re: Do I need an alignment?
Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
so it corrects by adding toe.
Not necessarily "corrects", but it's to increase stability.
As an example, if a cars suspension design provides no increase in toe as weight is added: Start with vehicle unladen and toe set to zero........
Now, add a bunch of weight to compress the suspension and go drive the car.....
as you drive it down the road the tires may not remain at zero toe as tire drag increases. It may end up with toe out when loaded down and rolling (dynamic toe change).
(also, modern cars require less toe change than in the olden days when suspension setups were "rather sloppy" with maybe 8 or more worn steering component movement points and 4 control arms with a dozen movement points)
A daily driver car that is (wrongly) toed out (negative total toe) can be a bit squirrelly and unstable and tend to wander while driving in a straight line, but negative toe on a track car can be quite desirable as it helps in turns.
and increasing negative camber
Not if it isn't built into the suspension design.
Typical McPherson strut suspension design provides for almost no camber change throughout the range of suspension travel. Any camber change is a result of the lower control (arm or whatever) swinging through an arc.
Yesterday, I went to my local Discount Tire and I bought a set of Michelin Premier A/S tires for my baby. I was extremely unhappy with the Barum tires that they replaced, so Discount Tire let me upgrade. I haven’t driven it yet besides 1/2 mile back home with the new tires, so I will report back when I drive it more, but I have no complaints so far. Anyways, I just figured I’d let you guys know that I got new tires. Maybe not as exciting as adding power, but my belief is that traction, suspension and brakes come first, then power. What do you think of my car’s new shoes?
I am wondering what the gear ratios are for a BMXA transmission compared to a JDM SLXA. Also, what are the other differences? I have heard that the SLXA has different gear ratios. I have also heard that the torque converter has a different stall speed, and therefore it sets a P0740 or P0741 when put in a USDM car. Is any of this true? What are the differences? Thanks.
- life is like a volleyball game - someone lifts the ball, another is bound to wack it down, LOL!) 
My baby gets new shoes! 
Transmission differences 
