The 7thGen Swap FAQ.
04-23-2004
#31
Originally posted by PrimeDynasty, answered by Hawk
Ok I am really interested in this particular topic and I have many questions but I will start off with only a couple.
The thing I always wondered about is when buying aftermark parts espically a header-back exhaust which car are you buying it for?? For exapme I want to put the K20A2 in my 02 EX so would I buy the header for the rsx and the rest for EX?
A: You'd buy a RSX header. I have a EX Skunk2 catback on my car, but i needed to have the mid pipe custom fit to work with the RSX header. When you do swaps alot of things need to be custom.
I was also wondering, one of my friends who is a 1.8t puke (i really have nothing against them, we just heckle each other, no hard feelings 1.8ters) said that the engine would put too much stress on the shocks, is there any truth in that?
A: I'd recommend getting a set of coilovers for a RSX. I have the stock RSX struts/springs in my car, but i'm gonna be getting a set of full RSX coilovers, Tein probably. When i had the car sitting on the Civic springs (they were lowering springs) it sat alittle lower than it did before.
The last thing for now is about the flashing of the ecu. Can you actually drive the car to the dealership or you need to get it there by other means? If you use a Hondata ECU do you send in the RSX ECU? I would assume you would.
A: The car will run on the Civic ECU, but its not pretty, i'd recommend having the car towed to the dealership. They will flash the RSX ecu to work with your immobilizer, they charged me $180 to do it.
If you get the ECU flashed by hondata you have to use the RSX ECU
I am sorry if these are really newb questions but ... well i am newb when it comes to this, so any help is much appreciated.
Ok I am really interested in this particular topic and I have many questions but I will start off with only a couple.
The thing I always wondered about is when buying aftermark parts espically a header-back exhaust which car are you buying it for?? For exapme I want to put the K20A2 in my 02 EX so would I buy the header for the rsx and the rest for EX?
A: You'd buy a RSX header. I have a EX Skunk2 catback on my car, but i needed to have the mid pipe custom fit to work with the RSX header. When you do swaps alot of things need to be custom.
I was also wondering, one of my friends who is a 1.8t puke (i really have nothing against them, we just heckle each other, no hard feelings 1.8ters) said that the engine would put too much stress on the shocks, is there any truth in that?
A: I'd recommend getting a set of coilovers for a RSX. I have the stock RSX struts/springs in my car, but i'm gonna be getting a set of full RSX coilovers, Tein probably. When i had the car sitting on the Civic springs (they were lowering springs) it sat alittle lower than it did before.
The last thing for now is about the flashing of the ecu. Can you actually drive the car to the dealership or you need to get it there by other means? If you use a Hondata ECU do you send in the RSX ECU? I would assume you would.
A: The car will run on the Civic ECU, but its not pretty, i'd recommend having the car towed to the dealership. They will flash the RSX ecu to work with your immobilizer, they charged me $180 to do it.
If you get the ECU flashed by hondata you have to use the RSX ECU
I am sorry if these are really newb questions but ... well i am newb when it comes to this, so any help is much appreciated.
04-28-2004
#32
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$180 for the flash!!! ouch. I guess there was nothing you could do. Ive probably told you, my dealership just did mine after hours for free. They mainly did it for free cause they didnt even know if they were gonna be able to do it at all. And when they did do it, everything was all closed up to where they couldnt go write up any paper work for the 10 minutes of labor.
Im thinkin about buying a 7th gen again, and cloning what I had. K20A2 and all. I expect the swap to take about 2 days this time. Cause now I know what parts I need, and Ive already gone through the motions once...should be a lot easier.
I'll keep you posted.
Im thinkin about buying a 7th gen again, and cloning what I had. K20A2 and all. I expect the swap to take about 2 days this time. Cause now I know what parts I need, and Ive already gone through the motions once...should be a lot easier.
I'll keep you posted.
04-28-2004
#33
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Rep Power: 277 i don't have time to send out the 2 wiring harness' to hasport...does anyone know anything at all what exactly needs to be converted?
any help would be appreciated
thanks
any help would be appreciated
thanks
04-28-2004
#35
Originally posted by NoBottleJustThrottle
$180 for the flash!!! ouch. I guess there was nothing you could do. Ive probably told you, my dealership just did mine after hours for free. They mainly did it for free cause they didnt even know if they were gonna be able to do it at all. And when they did do it, everything was all closed up to where they couldnt go write up any paper work for the 10 minutes of labor.
Im thinkin about buying a 7th gen again, and cloning what I had. K20A2 and all. I expect the swap to take about 2 days this time. Cause now I know what parts I need, and Ive already gone through the motions once...should be a lot easier.
I'll keep you posted.
$180 for the flash!!! ouch. I guess there was nothing you could do. Ive probably told you, my dealership just did mine after hours for free. They mainly did it for free cause they didnt even know if they were gonna be able to do it at all. And when they did do it, everything was all closed up to where they couldnt go write up any paper work for the 10 minutes of labor.
Im thinkin about buying a 7th gen again, and cloning what I had. K20A2 and all. I expect the swap to take about 2 days this time. Cause now I know what parts I need, and Ive already gone through the motions once...should be a lot easier.
I'll keep you posted.
don't give up on the EM2
04-28-2004
#36
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Rep Power: 0 My buddy did the wiring for my swap. First try, fired right up.
It took all day to figure it out, just studying the two charts from the civic, and the rsx. Lots of cussing, and yelling, but it got done. Save yourself the headache, send it to HASport.
It took all day to figure it out, just studying the two charts from the civic, and the rsx. Lots of cussing, and yelling, but it got done. Save yourself the headache, send it to HASport.
05-06-2004
#37
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Rep Power: 0 I plan to do the samething as you hawk. I'm keeping my eye pealed for a type-s donor car. Is there any certain thing to watch for? I guess it would be good to find a car close to me to see if the motor works, etc. You are using the whole rsx suspension as well, correct? After the whole swap, I plan to get rsx coilovers, upgraded disks, etc. As for aftermarket exhausts, all that needs to be done is extending the piping for the rsx on the civic? What about the header? Will there have to be firewall modification to the vic in order for the header to fit? I'm looking to go all motor, so that boils down to toda, jun, etc. Very expensive header companys. I really didnt see an answer for that question.
Post when you are able to figure out the gauge cluster install. It would look so much nicer, and sleeper, for a stock gauge cluster in the dash rather than a huge tack on the dash.
Post when you are able to figure out the gauge cluster install. It would look so much nicer, and sleeper, for a stock gauge cluster in the dash rather than a huge tack on the dash.
05-06-2004
#38
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by 1llmatic
i don't have time to send out the 2 wiring harness' to hasport...does anyone know anything at all what exactly needs to be converted?
any help would be appreciated
thanks
i don't have time to send out the 2 wiring harness' to hasport...does anyone know anything at all what exactly needs to be converted?
any help would be appreciated
thanks
05-06-2004
#39
Originally posted by Green Civic
I plan to do the samething as you hawk. I'm keeping my eye pealed for a type-s donor car. Is there any certain thing to watch for? I guess it would be good to find a car close to me to see if the motor works, etc.
Yea i'd make sure you know it runs, its a good thing Nuthing else i can really think to look for that would be specific to the car.
You are using the whole rsx suspension as well, correct? After the whole swap, I plan to get rsx coilovers, upgraded disks, etc.
Yea i'm using everything, springs, shocks, brakes. My suspension is 90% RSX, only thing Civic is the rear trailing arms
As for aftermarket exhausts, all that needs to be done is extending the piping for the rsx on the civic? What about the header? Will there have to be firewall modification to the vic in order for the header to fit?
Yea RSX cat backs i hear are easier than the Civics to modify. I'm looking at the comptech rsx cat-back for my car, more sleeperish. Header you just buy it for the RSX-S there is plently of room behind the motor (case in point DC5@EM2's car with the monster turbo back there
I'm looking to go all motor, so that boils down to toda, jun, etc. Very expensive header companys. I really didnt see an answer for that question.
I'm gonna be getting the Jackson Racing header and put a Carsound cat on it (need cats in NJ) but sooner or later i'm gonna do the Toda engine kit (N/A all the way
Post when you are able to figure out the gauge cluster install. It would look so much nicer, and sleeper, for a stock gauge cluster in the dash rather than a huge tack on the dash.
I'm runnig my stock civic cluster, just have to remind yourself to go way past the redline before i shift I am eventually gonna figure out how to get the RSX cluster working though, i've always liked the way it looks.
I plan to do the samething as you hawk. I'm keeping my eye pealed for a type-s donor car. Is there any certain thing to watch for? I guess it would be good to find a car close to me to see if the motor works, etc.
Yea i'd make sure you know it runs, its a good thing
Nuthing else i can really think to look for that would be specific to the car. You are using the whole rsx suspension as well, correct? After the whole swap, I plan to get rsx coilovers, upgraded disks, etc.
Yea i'm using everything, springs, shocks, brakes. My suspension is 90% RSX, only thing Civic is the rear trailing arms
As for aftermarket exhausts, all that needs to be done is extending the piping for the rsx on the civic? What about the header? Will there have to be firewall modification to the vic in order for the header to fit?
Yea RSX cat backs i hear are easier than the Civics to modify. I'm looking at the comptech rsx cat-back for my car, more sleeperish. Header you just buy it for the RSX-S there is plently of room behind the motor (case in point DC5@EM2's car with the monster turbo back there
I'm looking to go all motor, so that boils down to toda, jun, etc. Very expensive header companys. I really didnt see an answer for that question.
I'm gonna be getting the Jackson Racing header and put a Carsound cat on it (need cats in NJ) but sooner or later i'm gonna do the Toda engine kit (N/A all the way
Post when you are able to figure out the gauge cluster install. It would look so much nicer, and sleeper, for a stock gauge cluster in the dash rather than a huge tack on the dash.
I'm runnig my stock civic cluster, just have to remind yourself to go way past the redline before i shift
I am eventually gonna figure out how to get the RSX cluster working though, i've always liked the way it looks. Last edited by Hawk; 05-06-2004 at 02:18 PM.
05-08-2004
#41
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Posted by Cambo, I'm sure SOMEWHERE this will come in handy.....
K24 Engine Locations and Names:
1. Accord K24A4
2. TSX K24A2
3. Element K24A4
4. CRV K24A1
The Heads:
1. The A4 head: 2 cams lobes on the intake, 1 on the exhaust. EGR Portng
2. The A2 head: 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust cams. EGR Porting
3. The A1 head: 2 cam lobes on intake, 1 on exhaust.
Compression Ratios:
K24A4: 9.7:1
K24A2: 10.5:1
K24A1: 9.6:1
Horsepower and Torque Ratings:
K24A4: 160 hp and 161 ft. lbs tq
K24A2: 200 hp and 166 ft. lbs tq
K24A1: 160 hp and 162 ft. lbs tq
Differences:
The TSX K24 uses a throttle-by-wire system. The engine is also basically a K24 block mated up with the K-series A2 head (think RSX Type-S K20A2 head). The A2 head is the one you want if you're thinking i-VTEC in the traditional power-maker VTEC system, while the other heads' i-VTEC systems are meant more for emissions and gas mileage.
The K24 block is 19.7mm bigger (height wise) than the K20 block. The K24A2 (TSX) has stronger rods and unique crank. It also sports a 7100 rpm redline, while the other K24 engines have a 6500(?) rpm redline. The K24A2 ECU also isn't compatiable with any other engine for some reason. Thinking about Hondata ECU Reflash? Not for the K24A2 ECU then. Because of the Throttle-by-wire system, Hondata won't be releasing any Reflashes anytime soon (last i heard).
Which Engine Should I Get?
Well, thats tough to say. The K24A1 and K24A4 will be more common than the K24A2. Because they'll be more common, they'll probably be cheaper as well. You can always do a head swap with the K24A4 and K24A1 with a K20A2 Head. You'll have a "poor man's" K24A2, but it'll essentially be the same. The K24A4 and K24A1 are more boost friendly because of their lower compression ratios, but the K24A2 can support light boost. I'd say it'd come down to one of three things or a combination.
1. Do you plan to boost or stay N/A? If boost, go with K24A1 or K24A4.
2. Do you want to be more unique/spend more money? Go with the K24A2.
3. Tranny: 6 speed or 5 speed? 6 speed, then get the K24A2. 5 speed, K24A1 or K24A4.
K24 Engine Locations and Names:
1. Accord K24A4
2. TSX K24A2
3. Element K24A4
4. CRV K24A1
The Heads:
1. The A4 head: 2 cams lobes on the intake, 1 on the exhaust. EGR Portng
2. The A2 head: 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust cams. EGR Porting
3. The A1 head: 2 cam lobes on intake, 1 on exhaust.
Compression Ratios:
K24A4: 9.7:1
K24A2: 10.5:1
K24A1: 9.6:1
Horsepower and Torque Ratings:
K24A4: 160 hp and 161 ft. lbs tq
K24A2: 200 hp and 166 ft. lbs tq
K24A1: 160 hp and 162 ft. lbs tq
Differences:
The TSX K24 uses a throttle-by-wire system. The engine is also basically a K24 block mated up with the K-series A2 head (think RSX Type-S K20A2 head). The A2 head is the one you want if you're thinking i-VTEC in the traditional power-maker VTEC system, while the other heads' i-VTEC systems are meant more for emissions and gas mileage.
The K24 block is 19.7mm bigger (height wise) than the K20 block. The K24A2 (TSX) has stronger rods and unique crank. It also sports a 7100 rpm redline, while the other K24 engines have a 6500(?) rpm redline. The K24A2 ECU also isn't compatiable with any other engine for some reason. Thinking about Hondata ECU Reflash? Not for the K24A2 ECU then. Because of the Throttle-by-wire system, Hondata won't be releasing any Reflashes anytime soon (last i heard).
Which Engine Should I Get?
Well, thats tough to say. The K24A1 and K24A4 will be more common than the K24A2. Because they'll be more common, they'll probably be cheaper as well. You can always do a head swap with the K24A4 and K24A1 with a K20A2 Head. You'll have a "poor man's" K24A2, but it'll essentially be the same. The K24A4 and K24A1 are more boost friendly because of their lower compression ratios, but the K24A2 can support light boost. I'd say it'd come down to one of three things or a combination.
1. Do you plan to boost or stay N/A? If boost, go with K24A1 or K24A4.
2. Do you want to be more unique/spend more money? Go with the K24A2.
3. Tranny: 6 speed or 5 speed? 6 speed, then get the K24A2. 5 speed, K24A1 or K24A4.
Last edited by Havok2k1; 05-10-2004 at 10:31 PM.
05-10-2004
#42
Originally posted by NoBottleJustThrottle
Its a good idea to put all that info up so people like you, me, and hawk dont get asked those questions daily.
Good Job
Its a good idea to put all that info up so people like you, me, and hawk dont get asked those questions daily.
Good Job
I don't really care though, i'm a helpfull kinda guy
05-11-2004
#43
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Rep Power: 0 I dont mind helping either. But when I say helping, I mean helping with tech questions and what not. Im just really sick of the "how much is this going to cost?" question, and the "what are all the parts Im going to need?" question. ITS ALL RIGHT HERE PEOPLE!! SEARCH!!
05-11-2004
#44
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Rep Power: 248 I have a newb question as well. Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but 7th gen civics have Electric power steering now right? So does that mean there isn't a fluid reservoir or a power steering pump? And if that's so, can that steering assembly be used in conjunction with the K20 swap so as to not need the k20 power steering pump and having to put a notch in the hood?
05-11-2004
#45
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Rep Power: 0 Yea, I wont bash you very much, but that just screams noob. You should look under your hood for a power steering resivour, you will find one there. But there is still a couple ways of getting out of cutting up your hood. Either you can get a carbon fiber hood which will clear the RSX power steering pump, or you can do a hybrid with the Civic Si electronic power steering assist mechanism. Either will work, the easiest would be to just cut your hood. You wont notice it from outside, and chances are, unless you say "look at my huge hole" people wont really notice it either cause they will be too in aww of your engine.
05-11-2004
#46
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Rep Power: 248 Originally posted by NoBottleJustThrottle
or you can do a hybrid with the Civic Si electronic power steering assist mechanism.
or you can do a hybrid with the Civic Si electronic power steering assist mechanism.
That's where I heard it from. The Si has the eletronic power blah blah blah. Thanks.
05-17-2004
#48
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Rep Power: 0 ok, im still new too and i guess i dont get it. Do you or do you not have power steering with the swap. i wanna do it but if its to much of a hassle then forget about. Where do you find donor cars (k20a2)?
Can i just bring the donor car and my car to the shop, they could do it all? I can do bolt ons and stuff (intake/header) but electrical, not a chance.
Can i just bring the donor car and my car to the shop, they could do it all? I can do bolt ons and stuff (intake/header) but electrical, not a chance.
05-17-2004
#49
Originally Posted by wantaturbo
ok, im still new too and i guess i dont get it. Do you or do you not have power steering with the swap. i wanna do it but if its to much of a hassle then forget about. Where do you find donor cars (k20a2)?
Can i just bring the donor car and my car to the shop, they could do it all? I can do bolt ons and stuff (intake/header) but electrical, not a chance.
Can i just bring the donor car and my car to the shop, they could do it all? I can do bolt ons and stuff (intake/header) but electrical, not a chance.
Yes bolt ons from a RSX will work, i have a RSX injen SRI, and i'm goin to be getting a jackson racing header, only thing that needs to be modified is the exhaust.
05-18-2004
#50
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Rep Power: 0 ok, thanks. oh but do you have to cut the hood? i read somewhere that the power steering pump is too big and you either need cut a piece of the underside of the hood or get a carbon fiber hood to make it fit. it might have been in this thread but i dont remember.
thanks
thanks
05-18-2004
#52
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Rep Power: 0 Cutting the hood isnt nearly the big deal that people make it out to be. Its really nothing.
As for parts for the motor, like Hawk said, RSX parts work, but 02+ Civic Si parts fit really well too. Since the Si, and our cars have the same dimesnions in the engine bay, everything just fits really good in there. For instance, when I did the swap, I had the Si AEM CAI bolted on, and it fit just like it would on an Si. It was perfect. I believe that if you want a turbo kit, or a supercharger, that HASport recommends getting the one made for the Si as well due to fitment issues.
As for parts for the motor, like Hawk said, RSX parts work, but 02+ Civic Si parts fit really well too. Since the Si, and our cars have the same dimesnions in the engine bay, everything just fits really good in there. For instance, when I did the swap, I had the Si AEM CAI bolted on, and it fit just like it would on an Si. It was perfect. I believe that if you want a turbo kit, or a supercharger, that HASport recommends getting the one made for the Si as well due to fitment issues.
05-18-2004
#53
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Rep Power: 0 hawk, where did you move the battery to? i didnt d=see it in any of your pictures from under the hood. your car looks way clean i want to do it so badly now
05-18-2004
#54
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Originally Posted by wantaturbo
hawk, where did you move the battery to? i didnt d=see it in any of your pictures from under the hood. your car looks way clean i want to do it so badly now
05-20-2004
#56
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Rep Power: 0 ok, i want one. But where do i find a donor car? my computer blows and i havent been able to stay on the internet long enough to search for a list of salvage yards in my area. The few i got dont have any rsx's. are there many out there or do i just have to be patient. how long did it take you to find your donor car. i cant wait
05-20-2004
#57
i was actually pm'd by a member on this board who lived near me who works at a salvage yard that had a RSX-S. My doner car came to me
Just keep searching around your bound to find one eventually.
Just keep searching around your bound to find one eventually.
05-20-2004
#58
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Rep Power: 0 If you know one that deals strictly with honda/acura, go there. If they dont have one, Give them your name and #. Get them to call you when they get one in. Or check eBay every now and then.
05-21-2004
#59
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Rep Power: 0 i talked to a guy at salvage yard near me but he doesnt sell whole cars but he said he has the complete swap (engine, tranny, axles, ecu, a/c power steering, etc) for 3500. The engine has 40k miles. is that to much? or is that not a good deal?
05-21-2004
#60
40k seems like alot of miles to me, but i got mine with 4,054 so...
I personally wouldn't buy a motor that has more miles then the car has on it, but it is a honda engine so 40,000 really is still a baby. Just make sure you check out the motor, make sure everything is in running condition and it runs good.
Make sure when you get the Engine, you get the K-frame too, you don't want to buy that from acura. $$$
I personally wouldn't buy a motor that has more miles then the car has on it, but it is a honda engine so 40,000 really is still a baby. Just make sure you check out the motor, make sure everything is in running condition and it runs good.
Make sure when you get the Engine, you get the K-frame too, you don't want to buy that from acura. $$$
