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Did some of you know the new RSX type S sway bar is 21mm. I'm thinking of selling my 19mm and wait for a 05 Type S guy to sell his.

 
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yes the new one is larger.

 
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Thank you Zzyzx, robbclark1, Boilermaker1 and Grey.

You guys provided me with a lot of information, information that I could never have extracted otherwise. robbclark1 it was very cool of you to help me out right away. Zzyzx your technical explanation of things cannot be surpassed by any on this forum. Grey great DIY, great pics, clear steps, and really nice endlinks.

I rotated the bar and it cleared everything. I didn’t not put the bar on, because I was short on time and I didn’t want to go through the trouble of removing the bolts that go through the center piece holding the control arms (It was raining and we had to work outside and it was night). So right now I’m on the stock bar but I will install the rear bar after the winter.I rotated the progress bar it cleared everything(a lot of clearance from the control arms) but I didn'r install it.

My short experience with the bar even though it was on upside down, made the tail end was very stiff and tight (a major change from stock). Anyhow I can’t give you many details cause I only had it on for a day really and I was more stressed about screwing up the car. I can say the tail felt like it was floating on the road, much stiffer than now now the tail feel like its sagging.

cubanmike26 the install should be pretty straight forward if you have a rear sway bar and a stock set-up. Just look underneath the rear on the car to see if you have the anti-roll bar. Just put it ON THE RIGHT WAY!!!


I can't wait till I put it on I'll post some pics I just need to get my hands on a digital camera.

 
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Hmm, looking forward to it
I will put it IN the right way.
We'll see what happens...

 
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Remember your front is 15.9, so be careful, you might want to put a stock 2002 ex front bar.

There is only one thing that concerns me now I wonder if the bar will clear when I lower the car. hmmmmmmmmm?

 
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My car's already been lowered with teh Sportlines. I looked underneath when it was on jack stands and I have plenty of space so far all around the front & rear sawy bars.
Nindo, why should I be careful about the front bar and why the 02 ex front bar?

 
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Cause your rear is gonna be so stiff and your front I'm guessing has a lot of body roll. You might spin out. Usually on the stock set-up your car never spin's out or oversteers. On your set-up(Stock front and 22mm rear) if you brake to abruptly or push really hard on a turn your tail end could spin around.


When you raise the car on jack stands the control arms lower cause the wheels hang so it looks like you have more room, then you actually have when your car sits on its wheels there is less clerance. I just wonder if the bar will clear the control arms when the car is lowered. The bar is super thick. You'll notice a huge diff. There is no way those those poor little stock endlinks could hold such a rigid bar.

 
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^^^Hmm, but you got Grey's endlinks now so it shouldn't be a problem right?
I'm wondering now, if it might be better to just leave the car with the stock sway bars then? Sounds like too many things are getting in the way, plus some members say the car understeers considerably once the bars are on. I don't know, I'm having second thoughts.

 
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Grey's endlinks are much beefier than stock and there more flexible. I'd reccomend replceing the stock ones if you get a thicker rear bar.

If you put the thick rear your car will understeer less. What I mean to say is you should put a thicker front as well if you change the rear. Your front bar is really thin.

Wait for Zzyzx he'll reccommend a solution.

 
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Zzyzx does your rear end make creeking and groaning noise with the Hotchkis bar?

 
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I get a clicking noise when the bar isnt under load, but thats the endlinks not the bar..

cubanmike26, If I understand right, you have the stock 15.9mm bar, and are looking to get a 22mm rear bar. And your concern now is if the car will be too Oversteer prone. Right?

Its a valid concern, as with that setup the car will want to bring the rear end around on you in certin situations. But unless you have a habbit of driving the car at 10/10ths all the time, it shouldn't be a problem.

I say run with it for a while, See if you like it. If the car is too twitchy for you, then start looking for a larger front bar. Such as a sedans 22mm front or the coups 25.4mm front. Just remember that if and when the car starts to rotate on you, the #1 thing you should not do is Hit the brakes or lift off the gas. But rather you should add in more throttle to settle the rear end down. And be a bit more careful in low grip situations (Rain and such). as the cars natrual tendency to oversteer in those situations will be acentuated by the stiffer rear bar.

 
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hmmmmmmmmmm...

Grey says he gets "A creeking noise when on hills or slants. It's cause the sway bar is stressing the chassis. I believe that re-welding that sub-fram piece that the sway bar tie bar bolts on to would solve that problem. The metal is sliding and flexing and the creases betwean the welds rub against each other. Well, the metal does that is. I think that's what's causing the creeking noise".

I wonder how bad it is for those subframe pieces where the endlinks bolt to.

 
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is he sure its not his rear springs creaking in their mounts? I get that when i get out of my car on occation.

with the progress bar, you shouldnt have any problems, with where the bar mounts. and the control arms can handle the endlinks just fine. Remember, Our cars suspension is basically the same as the Civic Si and RSX, so if a CTR or a RSX-R can run a 22mm rear bar with no problems then we can too.

 
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Well I rotated the bar the other way and it cleared everything unlike when I had it on backwards. The noise I got was from rubbing of the exhaust and the hitting of the control arms because I had it on backwards.


I'll forward your info to him.

Thanks Zzyzx

 
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You mentioned that we are able to run the 22mm bar. But why is it some of the 7th gen Civics get their endlinks broken after running on them ? Does the CTR or RSX have stronger endlinks ? I was contemplating on getting the 22mm bar because of this.

 
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I believe it was concluded that it wasnt the size of the bar that was braking the end links, but rather the oblique angle that some of the aftermarket anti-roll bars places the endlinks in. So its more a question of Bar shape then bar thickness. just an example: I recall that Boilermaker is running the comptech 22mm rear bar with stock endlinks, and hasn't had a problem with it yet. and he autocrosses with the car, so They've seen some stress. but then I've seen that the Progress bar tends to snap them.... so I'm more inclined to believe that its the bars shape and not its strength that is brakeing the endlinks.

 
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I sway that our rear struts mounts are pretty deep into the trunK. I was thinking that installing as rear strut towerbrace wouldn't compromise much space. Do any of you have pics or comments about this.

 
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a rear upper tie bar is pretty useless..... Thanks to us having double wishbone on the back.
THink of it this way, a tie bar stops flex by attaching to the top of the shock mount right? well, on a Strut type suspension (like our front suspension) this works great, because the shock its self is a load bearing part of the suspension, so the shock mount sees alot of force and distortion... On a double wishbone suspension, the shock is not a load bearing part of the suspension, so it should see little to no flex, as the Control arms and their mounts would be the points that absorb the suspension loads, and there currently isnt any way to tie the upper control arm mounts together.. (the only direction the shock should be pushed is up, when the suspension compresses, and a tie bar wouldnt effect that any way).

So, save your $$ and spend it on something worth wild... like control arm bushings

 
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Zzyzx thanks for the guidance.


I changed the rear shocks on an older Nissan sentra and shocks were on an angle unlike ours. Ours come straight down.

 
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okay, ive read through all of this an dim still not sure... im more of a touge driver... i need a good system for roads but not a weak dailt system. I used to drive a mr2 so im pretty good with oversteer. I drive a 04 civic ex. I pretty set on the koni shocks, but what spring should i use? Also what says? I really like the neuspeed setup but i don't know if it's any good... also looking for good tires, i live in cali so no snow, and little rain... i want a cornering monster!

THanks!

 
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Ok......
heres spencers Conering monster mix...

1. wheels and tires.... Find your self the lightest set of 15X7's you can afford, then wrap them in either Falken Azenis sports (RT-215) or Kumho MX. Both are 205/50-15's.

2. Anti-roll bars.. If you dont have one now, Get the 03+ 15.9mm front anti-Roll bar... tie that in with either a 22mm rear, or preferably the Hotchkis 27mm 2 point adjustible bar. (If you wait a while, my 25.4mm hotchkis bar may be fore sale soon)

3. Springs. Pick up a set of Ground control adjustible sleved coilovers... Specify a spring rate of around the mid 400 LB/in on the front and around Mid to high 500 LB/in on the rear...

4. Shocks.... Get konis, set the fronts fairly soft and the rears fairly hard... Tune the balance between the two to get the corner entry/exit you want. (Increas rebound on the side you want to have stick less)

5. Alignment.... Run between -2 to -3 Deg camber on the nose, half of that on the rear. 0 Toe front and rear, adjust toe as nessisary to get the corner ing you want... Toe out on the front for better turn in, Toe out on the rear to get better rotation, Toe in on the front to reduce oversteer, toe in on the rear to reduce oversteer.... 0 toe is a good place to start.

6. chassis braceing... You may want to pick up an Autopower Roll cage (Considerign what you do with the car) other wise, a front strut tower bar would be good, as well as a rear lower tie bar...


other then that, make sure your life insurance policy is paid for, your Will up to date, and keep a clean set of underwear in the glove compartment....

 
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you have the sleeved coilvers on yours?

 
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Not right now, but it is in the plan if I dont get a different Autocross car... (one of 3 cars.... A miata, an 88 CRX si, or an 89 Civic Si)




also, If that setup causes you to wrap your self around a tree... I am not responsible!! after all you asked for the setup.

 
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You think its a good idea to keep the civic as a daily driver and to buy a second car for racing like an old miata or CRX?

 
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Well, I want to run and win at the nationals... and unfortunatly, this car isnt going to let me do that. So the current plan is to learn as much about tuning and driving with what I've got, and then pick up something that can be natioally compeditive... Miata in CSP, 88 CRX Si in ST2, and the 89 Civic Si in STS. But untill I get one of those cars, the Lil' 01 EX will have to bear the brunt of my racing...

 
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So youll sell your car?

 
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Not any time soon.... In the long run its best to have a Daily diver car, and a different race car. saves wear and tear on the DD car.

 
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So I believe you do not have a rear upper strut bar ? Do you have a rear lower tie bar though ? Read somewhere in this forum that it is recommended to have a rear lower tie bar with an upgraded rear anti-roll bar. You are running on the hotchicks of 25.4mm right ? By the way dude, do you think a front lower brace is good for making a better cornering car if we were to put aside the increase in understeer ?

 
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You'd be right, I dont have an upper rear bar. Nor do I have a Lower Rear tie bar... though one of those is in the game plan (just not a real High Priority) Actually a Rear upper tie bar is in the plan, but not for any performance gains, but rather for something to better secure my subwoofer to, so it doesnt go floping around when I'm on the street....

ya I do have the Hochkis 25.4mm adjustible bar. Though if I cant get the handling I want by adjusting alignment, I may be getting the 27mm bar.

Regarding a lower brace.... well, It will help handling by reducing chassis flex, but it doesn't actually influence oversteer/understeer... I think people say it does because they expect to be able to take turns much faster with one one, so they try and just run in to more of the cars natural understeer... and they blame it on the chassis brace. (Rather then Driver error, wich it really is... because, after all, we all drive better then Mario Andretti, right?? )

 
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He mentioned that it reduces the flex that happens between the lower control arms.