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I do not understand how lower tie bars and sway bars affect the physics of your car?

Does the tie bar affect the handling or is it just there to reduce strain on the chases?

If you were to put a thicker rear sway bar and a tire bar in the rear, would it make the tail end of the car wild and reduce body roll?

Lets say your not Auto Xing and your daily driving includes predictable long smooth turns, isn't body roll a good thing, at least in some cases? They bank the road on those Nascar tracks

 
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Tie bars (strut bars included) are just chassis reinforcements. They simply allow the suspension to work the way it was designed to work, Better. The car will feel better, but the cars handling will have remained pretty much the same. Just note that for the best handling you want a very stiff chassis. because a Flexible chassis esentially acts like a very large Un-Dampered spring, making fine tuning the handling of your car near impossible.

The Anti-roll bars will actually change the handling Charateristics of the car...

If you increase the size of the rear bar, you will decrease understeer and increas oversteer. How much depends on how larger of a bar you get, what the rest of your suspension is set up like and how hard you are pushing the car (are you pushing the car enough to notice the difference between a 22mm and 25mm rear bar).

regarding body roll... I've allways said that body roll shouldnt be your primary concern when tuning your car handling. People seem to get hung up on the idea that a car that has little or no body roll is a well handling car, when that is just not true. you could build a car that has no body roll and handles like CRAP, and you could build a car that has lots of body roll and handles Very well. Body roll its self only does 2 things that hinder handling. 1. it annoys the driver(you can learn to ignore it) and 2. it causes camber loss (which can be copensated for by running negitive camber).

 
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With that note, why do people install tein basic coilovers? does it help your tires stick better? Would a daily driver notice a performance improvement, or is it only noticed at the track where it could help shave fractions of a seconds?

 
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They would be an improvement in handling, thanks to the higher spring rates (Reducing bodyroll/camber change) and by the difference in spring rates on the front vs the rear, influencing the Oversteer/understeer charateristics of the car. tie that in with MUCH better valving on the Dampers (Shocks) and you have a good performance boost over stock. HOWEVER, the Tein Basic and SS, are both designed for the street. Meaning that although they improve handling greatly over stock, the are still designed with the average joe driver in mind... meaning they are still designed to make the car understeer at its limits. Keeping You and grandma safe.


For track use, I'd say that The Tein Basic is best to be avoided (Thanks to not having adjustible dampers) and the SS would probably be a good comprimise between decent Street maners and acceptible handling on track.

If I were to build my car for Track use exclusivly... Personally I wouldnt get Any Pre-assembled coilover. I'd be looking at fining a good Damper (Re-valved Konis?? Moton Double adjustibles???) that fit my budget. And then tie them in with a good Linier rate spring, preferably on an adjustable perch (Like Ground Control).

 
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Case in point about the body roll...


That was taken Yesterday... and yes its me.

Notice that there is a good amount of body roll, but also notice that the front tire is still flat on the ground.... Thanks to me running about -2.5 deg camber on the front of the car.

 
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-2.5?? Only for track use right?

 
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Nope thats daily driven...

Tire wear hasnt been a problem, as I got 60,000 Miles out of my last set of street tires. mostly because I have 0 toe front and rear. Toe will eat tires MUCH faster then camber settings, and there is a common misconseption around that when people lower their cars with out camber kits or alignments that its the Camber that kills the tires quickly when its actually the added Toe that does them in.

 
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When you say re-valved, is that mean they are shocks that have been used and rebuilt or something?

Do you know if its possible to buy blown front struts for our gen civics. I'm hesitent on butchering my stock struts to install the konis.

The yellow konis I've seen have a valve on them, setting from soft to firm. Is it right to say that the firmer you set them the better the handling?

 
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Re-valving is when you have Koni or one of their approved service shops Up valve the dampers. to make them stiffer. (Note that Konis are 100% repairable too, and there are many service shops equiped to Repair and/or revalve Koni shocks)

You may be able to find some stock struts.... ask around here (in the Marketplace) and you may find someone tring to get rid of their stock parts.

Firm valving absolutly does not mean better handling.... Shocks primairly influence corner entry and exit. And they do so by controling how fast weight gets transfered off of and to the tires. so by altering the valving you control how fast the weight of the car shifts around the car.

Almost all single adjustible dampers only allow you to adjust the Rebound dampering.. I.e. how fast the shock allows the spring to expand. this is fine, because rebound affects handling more then BUmp (how fast the damper lets the spring compress, so Bump affects ride quality more)

Basic concept with single Rebound adjustible dampers: Increase the Rebound Valving on the side of the car you want to have stick LESS. so, if the car is understeering, then you either Decrease the rebound on the front of the car OR you increase the valving on the Rear of the car. Do the opposite if the car is oversteering.

Just an example. On the street I run my Konis Full soft on the front, and about 1/2 to 1 turn up from full soft on the back. when I autocross I run the front at full soft and the rear 1/4 turn from full stiff, and then adjust from there to suit the course.

 
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Zzyzyx stuff is starting to get technical.

What is the difference be between the sway bars on an RSX Type S and A civic EX coupe?

What makes the RSX chassis and suspension superior to ours if it is?

 
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the chassis is the same besides some slight mods with axles and tie rods. They just have better shocks and spring. It depends what year EX coupe.

http://www.sceniccityonline.com/arti...ybarspecs.html

RSX/RSX-S have 19mm rear sways, and RSX-R has 22mm rear sway. Si has a 17mm rear sway. The front sway bars are about 16mm I believe for all of them, but don't quote me on that.

Have you read the FAQ?

As much as we can get technical with you, you should have a basis of what is going on. If you are really interested, read all you can. Check out other racing forums like www.sccaforums.com and READ THIS!

 
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The si has a 25.4mm front bar like the early 7th gens did. and I believe the early Si had a 15mm rear bar, the newer ones have the 17mm
The RSX, has a 23mm front bar.


Thats good info Robbclark posted, be sure to check up on some of it.

BTW, I have an 01 EX.. Started with a 25.4mm front bar and 12mm rear bar, over the last 2 years its ran with a 19mm rear bar, No front bar, and finally to what it has today a 15.9mm front bar and a 25.4 mm rear bar. (Note that this car is setup for autocross)

 
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Very informative stuff.

Wow your set up is a little extreme, compared to stock.

Why did Honda drastically change the set up on the 03 in comparison with the 02. I'm thinking the suspension was tuned for north americans because Honda thought we wanted a softer more comfortable ride over bumps.

 
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It is to induce understeer which is safer for stupid drivers.

 
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You guys are very patient; I've seen this topic has been covered numerous times. My car has 25.4/13.0 set up I was wondering if a 19mm rear sway bar would reduce understeer.
I know Zzyzx you don't like this setup but I am a novice and I think with your setup I'd break my face lol.

 
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Going with the 19mm bar is a good first step, and I ran my car like that for little under a year. Theres little point in seting up a car to the point where you arnt ready to deal with what it wants to do... so if you build slowly, you'll be able to build the skills to match the cars new capabilities.

 
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And its not an expensive, thats another thing that attracted me. Good bang for my buck.

I've seen some posts of people installing 22mm in the rear.

 
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i got them all

 
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With your Set-up you can probabaly flick your car into 180 degree turns? I read some car tunning tables from http://catalog.com/susq/other/stuning.htm#ndx . You've done a lot of stuff to your car that they show increases oversteer and reduces understeer(You really know your shiat!).

 
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The car is really fun to drive right now, but I'm still getting more understeer then I'd like. But I think I can tune that out with the right alignment. if that doesnt do it, different springs or a larger rear anti-roll bar may be in order.

Couple of down sides to how I've tuned my car.

1. the List of people I would trust to drive my car Safely has Progressivly Dwindled...
2. the car isnt all that forgiving to my mistakes.
3. I have to be especially carefull in the rain or any other Low grip situation

 
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your gonna put more negative camber, and more positive caster? I don't know the diff between the two its just something I read of the link.

 
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There is a link in there that explains them both. Read Mike Kojima's Sentra page. He is a god of suspension.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

We can't change the caster on our car.

 
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I was ready to purchase the sway bar I just needed to know if this one fit my car. Dezod is selling it. (Ex Coupe)

Comptech Rear Sway Bar Kit-RSX 02-03 & Honda Civic SI 03-04 (22mm solid rear bar).

 
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Yes, the comptech kit fits the car... I have that bar, it bolts right in.

 
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Thanks

 
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Thanks everyone

 
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Problemo,

Dezod doesn't have the comptech in stock, he has this grenish blue one by progress. Which is better? Is it better to wait an extra 2 weeks for a comptech?

 
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comptech supposedly is designed better but progress has an integrated tie bar.

 
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Fudge I had a feeling the comptech was better.

My other option was a seller on Ebay was selling a 22mm directly from Honda.

I figured the sellers that sponsered this site were more legit than dudes on ebay. Thats why I wanted the comptech from Dezod.

 
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So does Comptech... its just $400. But if you want to get technical, the Comptech integrated bar is designed MUCH better than that piece of junk from progress.