Tie Bars and Sway bars
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 380 
That and earlier gen civics had a bad habbit of having their lower control arm mounts ripped out on cars running large anti-roll bars... the Tie bar aliviated the problem. Note that this was on cars that saw alot of track time (Wheel to wheel and Open track). I dont konw of any one having that problem with the current gen civics or RSX, so we may not need one... but for a few $$$ why take that chance?
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
Likes: 3
From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 The way the sway bar was attached was different. It was on the LCA vs. being on the trailing arm like it is now. My guess was it was much more active mounted on the LCA and the subframe had to bear higher loads due to it. THat and the LCAs were shorter on the older models (more moment arm between the LCA bolts).
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 380 Theres allways going to be a little flex in the chassis, just not all that much to warrent the necesity of a rear upper tie bar. If we had McPhearson struts on the back I'd say get one absolutely.. But with double wishbone your better off spending $$ on something else. when you get down to trying to find that last 10th of a second it may be worth it.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 there is flex, but not like in other cars. The rear struts are in the trunk which means they are pretty much connected by the trunk metal. That is where most of the flex will get absorbed so adding another brace on top of that won't theoretically do much. If you add a C-pillar brace, that will help the flex between the c pillars because there is nothing between them. Some people make trunk bars too but they don't do much. Do you get what I am trying to say? Bracing flex means filling in the gaps between places that can bend, like between the front struts, in the interior of the car, and in the trunk. You can also brace the chassis from underneath by using x and u braces.
if you are looking to save .0003 of second, then most bars will do some good if they don't add too much weight.
if you are looking to save .0003 of second, then most bars will do some good if they don't add too much weight.
Last edited by robbclark1; Nov 4, 2004 at 07:21 PM.
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 304 Thanks for the info Guys.
I understand why a type R comes the strut bars, its a car that is tuned from the factory.
Like Zzyzx said its better to invest in the control arm bushings.
I understand why a type R comes the strut bars, its a car that is tuned from the factory.
Like Zzyzx said its better to invest in the control arm bushings.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412
Originally Posted by nindoo
Thanks for the info Guys.
I understand why a type R comes the strut bars, its a car that is tuned from the factory.
Like Zzyzx said its better to invest in the control arm bushings.
I understand why a type R comes the strut bars, its a car that is tuned from the factory.
Like Zzyzx said its better to invest in the control arm bushings.
I know I had a blast!!! Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 304
Originally Posted by robbclark1
good luck putting the rears in I know I had a blast!!!
I know I had a blast!!!lol. I hope there as easy as the ones on the previous gen nissan sentras. I'm guessing from your comment its not the case.
thanks again.... will this bolt onto the civic?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33592
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33592
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412
Originally Posted by nindoo
lol. I hope there as easy as the ones on the previous gen nissan sentras. I'm guessing from your comment its not the case.
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 304 The front's look easy. as long as I don't put them on backwards like the roll bar it will be ok. 
. I was talking about the struts, were you talking about the control arm bushings?
. I was talking about the struts, were you talking about the control arm bushings? 
<<< me whin i coner. Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 304 
Hey guys I didn't get the side pieces with my progress bar. you see the extra clip on the side of the bushing bracket. I didn't get that extra reinforment. Is there something from Home depot that could do the trick?
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 304 Direct bolt on
put my car on jack stands, took off the rear wheels. it will take you and a friend 30 mins in your garage. Most of the time is spent jacking the car up and taking off the wheels, after all that its fairly simple. Just don't put it on backwards. I freaked out, but I realized that it wasn't so bad.
put my car on jack stands, took off the rear wheels. it will take you and a friend 30 mins in your garage. Most of the time is spent jacking the car up and taking off the wheels, after all that its fairly simple. Just don't put it on backwards. I freaked out, but I realized that it wasn't so bad.
Last edited by nindoo; Nov 11, 2004 at 03:32 PM.
The car had an alignment done today. For some reason, the guy couldn't get both L & R sides equally. Anyways, fixed the camber and toe: C,FL-0.4, FR-0.2, RL-0.5, RR-0.6 degrees. Toe was: FL 0.02, FR -0.01, RL 0.08 & RR (0.04) degrees. The specified range for the last reading was 0.04 to 0.16. Would it matter that the range is at its minimum?
I wondered if the discrepancies on the numbers make any difereces as far as handling.
Soon, I should have the sway bars. I guess I may not need to realign the car then since I'm not touching the strut bolts, just wanted to make sure. Is it recommended?
6K miles warranty on the job. Not bad for $60+ tax.
I wondered if the discrepancies on the numbers make any difereces as far as handling.
Soon, I should have the sway bars. I guess I may not need to realign the car then since I'm not touching the strut bolts, just wanted to make sure. Is it recommended?
6K miles warranty on the job. Not bad for $60+ tax.
Last edited by cubanmike26; Nov 26, 2004 at 06:25 PM.
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 304 I don't think you'd need an alignment because you changed a sway bar. But I'm no Mechanic maybe one of the more car savvy guys could give you a more concrete answer.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 No the sway bar does nothing to your alignment. However, if you want better handling then do not set the camber to the minimum. It will save your tires, but handling will be crap. I would suggest maybe running about -1 up front and -.75 rear. That should help a little. I am currently running around -2 front and -.8 rear. The left side should actually be a little bit higher than the right because when your butt gets in the car it will lower and bring the camber in, especially the rear. It is suggested to get your alignment with you in the car or have them set the left side slight more positive than the right.
Makes sense, thanks Robbclark1. I did notice that the car didn't handle as good as it was before. It's amazing what a mere 1 to 2 degrees of diference make, specially when racing. Well like I said, the job has a 6k miles warranty so I could take it whenever I want again. I'll ride like this for a while though, I don't count with the bread for more tires for now.
Although I'm unsure if this would help to see how much it comes out of spec, I marked the nuts that adjust the toe as well as the ones that adjust the SPC control arm with a crayon. It would be nice if we had a correlation between the ratation on those nuts and the degrees for camber as well as toe. Adjusting the camber and toe seemed like an easy task, but according to the tech, caster is difficult to adjust on our cars and some times even not necessary. Isn't it as important as toe?
Although I'm unsure if this would help to see how much it comes out of spec, I marked the nuts that adjust the toe as well as the ones that adjust the SPC control arm with a crayon. It would be nice if we had a correlation between the ratation on those nuts and the degrees for camber as well as toe. Adjusting the camber and toe seemed like an easy task, but according to the tech, caster is difficult to adjust on our cars and some times even not necessary. Isn't it as important as toe?
Last edited by cubanmike26; Nov 27, 2004 at 02:13 PM.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 You cannot adjust the caster on our car. It will change when you change the other settings. Caster is important for handling but not for saving your tires. Basically, if you move your front wheels further forward, you will increase the distance between the wheels and increase handling. Read Mike Kojima's page that is in the Suspension Tuning 101 thread. It has a lot of good handling info. Also, I would always get it properly aligned, unless you have the right equipment to judge camber and toe angles.
Zzyzx,
Where can I get a hotchkis sway bar set up?
A little background on me I have autocrossed a Miata for the last 3 years so if anyone needs to find Miata parts let me know. Next year I plan on taking my civic to nationals in STS. Yesterday I put my temporary schocks and springs in till I can get the stock housings to Koni for a wet fitment and valveing to fit the ground control kit and spring rate. Thanks for your help.
Where can I get a hotchkis sway bar set up?
A little background on me I have autocrossed a Miata for the last 3 years so if anyone needs to find Miata parts let me know. Next year I plan on taking my civic to nationals in STS. Yesterday I put my temporary schocks and springs in till I can get the stock housings to Koni for a wet fitment and valveing to fit the ground control kit and spring rate. Thanks for your help.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 10,857
Likes: 0
From: Gaithersburg, MD
Rep Power: 412 www.hotchkistuning.com
but you have to buy the RSX set and the front probably won't fit your car unless it is an LX/DX.
If you want any other hotchkis parts, look under the RSX section because that is the car they are making most of the parts for. The Si parts should fit too. Everything except the front sway bar, the springs, and the front strut bar probably won't fit.
but you have to buy the RSX set and the front probably won't fit your car unless it is an LX/DX.
If you want any other hotchkis parts, look under the RSX section because that is the car they are making most of the parts for. The Si parts should fit too. Everything except the front sway bar, the springs, and the front strut bar probably won't fit.
