eager2learn

do what was mentioned above a bunch of posts:
fill the reservoir, put the cap on the reservoir, open the bleeder screw, put a vacuum line on the bleeder screw and down into a cup or pan of some type, grab the clutch pedal and pump the ever living crap out of it all the way to the floor and all the way up and back all the way to the floor and back all the way up again. pump it like that at a really really fast pace until the reservoir is almost empty. then fill the reservoir again and do it again, keeping the bleeder screw open the ENTIRE time, and keep doing it til the reservoir almost runs out again. possibly even do it a third time.
THEN proceed to bleed it the way you have been as if you were doing brakes.

that oughta do the trick.

i'm like 90% sure that you just have way too much air in the system still, and the above way is the best and easiest way to get rid of the majority of the air to the point where you'll have enough pressure to bleed it the normal way.

-motoxxxman


im really tired but im gonna try this one...

pump the ever living crap out of my clutch with bleeder open...

do 4 purges than bleed by pump, open, close, pump, open, close, pump, open, close. and NOT push in the push-rod this time.

crap there is like 3,000 methods to do this...

source: http://www.preludepower.com/forums/a.../t-301102.html

eager2learn

f&#( everyone's advice contradicts everyone's advice

ericthecarguy said open it, press clutch in, close bleeder, release clutch, open bleeder, etc until you see fluid...BUT he did not touch on how to get air out, is it the exact same process, or do i not leave the bleeder open, just crack and close?

ericthecar guy does the EXACT OPPOSITE OF EVERYONE ELSE....oh yeah i have honda service manual...ill just look there phew..

ezone

In your videos....The pedal free play is a bit more than I prefer to see....but the long travel with little or no resistance isn't good.

Link to accord forum didn't work.

In the video in the post above, at about :34 it's fairly focused, I can see a blackish smear on the bottom of the master....that looks like it's leaked fluid.

Where you show the slave pushing the lever in the trans..... I have to ask does the clutch actually disengage when you do this?
Trans in a gear, push pedal all the way down, can the car be pushed/will it roll?

Sometimes bleeding requires two people: one must know how, and the other has to be able to follow instruction. .

eager2learn

my service manual says 12mm is normal ok i rule that out..

eager2learn

ok im gonna do the official honda way and bleed slowly into bottle of brake fluid until bubbles stop coming out....im doing this myself so ill just do it until i use up a whole bottle of 32 oz brake fluid.....

ezone

The second half of line B in that picture says 1-10mm. I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be the free play with no resistance....... and the 12-21mm is travel to make the TO bearing contact the pressure plate (slight resistance.......when it all works correctly).
IDK...Kinda not exactly crystal clear here in the manual.

Going by the look of your video, I think your free play looks a bit too much.

eager2learn

ok ok i see the leak yeah...ill confirm tmrw on sun up...

im gonna do the test tomorrow. im gonna put the trans in gear, start the car and see if it rolls....ima do it right now actually...since im parked uphill on my driveway...

as far as bleeding...im gonna do the HONDA instrution way by pumping slowly with bleeder valve open into a bottle of brak efluid sounds ismple eoughgn

eager2learn

OKAY back w/ results (ezone i owe you an e-book or something from barnes & nobles)

anyways i put the gear into 1st WITH CAR OFF...

i tried to start it but it wouldnt start so i let off....and my 1st gear wouldnt come out so i forced it out...

i pushed it back into 1st with CAR OFF

and i started car w/

E-BRAKE DOWN
CLUTCH FULLY PRESSED DOWN
BRAKES FULLY PRESSED DOWN

I THEN LET GO OF MY BRAKES (WITH CLUTCH STILL FIRMLY PRESSED DOWN) AND IT STARTED TO ROLL FORWARD LOL

eager2learn

TO bearing? throw off bearing?

eager2learn

okay now im REALLY confused....the cluthc master cylinder is located on TOP of the car...but in this pic its located BEHIND the clutch pedal.....

ezone

There is only one. It is not on the roof.


You already know what it looks like and where it is. Use your own brain here.
Some of the info you are finding must be crap, you have to figure out what it is and filter it out.


"Throw out".

So did it roll because of gravity, or did it roll because the clutch won't disengage?



Also...I'm still wondering about the travel of the throwout fork, it looks like it moved til it almost touched the aluminum casting of the trans case.....but the clutch does not disengage??....makes me think it may have a real clutch problem that had nothing to do with the hydraulics.....but now you've dinked with the hydraulics too.

eager2learn

because clutch wont disenage..it roll forward uphill lol oh man plz tell me its just slave and master

not on top of the car i meant engine but yeah im just complaining i can find it i know i can im gonna replace master...and slave too might as well...hopefully that fixes it

it has to be master because i googled the clutch fluid leaking and everyone is replacing their master

eager2learn

Do you think it has something to do with my release bearing? Do you think I can get to it without having to remove my tranny (get to it via going under my vehicle)

eager2learn

Bing-Bong I Thiiink I found My answer!!

ezone

Not yet.
I don't know enough about the problems yet to say anything more than already said.

Nope. Trans has to be removed in order to access any clutch related parts.

A sane person wouldn't want to pull the trans out unless they are pretty damn sure it really needs to be done.

ezone

No, you have free play. According to you.

eager2learn

i never said that.

hey ezone

is throwout beaing the same thing as release bearing

im gonna take the risk...google is unanimous in saying a leaking clutch fluid = bad master cylinder

im gonna replace that and slave and bench bleed master cylinder then install then bleed slave then see if that works

if no im gonna adjust my pedals via honda manual

if no then im gonna lay on the floor and just die

that enough research for this week. cant wait for monday!!

ezone

You don't remember saying you have 12mm of free play? AND show it in the video?

Yes
No, not always. You have to find the source of YOUR leak, not everyone elses leak.

Yours looked like the master has leaked though. The boot on your slave cylinder was not filled with fluid, according to you....so the only things left that can leak are the lines and the master.

Read the service manual BEFORE you take anything apart! There's a couple steps that are NOT simple. Parts of it are a 2 person job unless you like cussing more than necessary.

Also...I always try to remember to order an extra line gasket in case I f*** it up.
That should be done after installing the new master cylinder.
That doesn't get s*** done!

============

New thinking.....
In your video at around :55 or so you show the slave pushing the throwout fork and it's moving....(rather far which makes me think you may have a real clutch problem)

If you wedge something solid behind that arm so it can't move, the clutch pedal should then be quite stiff, not mushy, if the air is bled out.
If it's still mushy then it's still got air trapped.



You might want to get someone who knows what they are doing to double check what you are doing, to work with you on bleeding, and help evaluate if you have a clutch problem or not.

eager2learn

it's still mushy, so still air trapped.

what do you mean when you say "clutch problem"

are you talking about my entire manual transmission?

i don't know what a "clutch" is really after learning all of this.

I thought clutch was just the clutch pedal.

I have nobody else (who is knowledgeable) so i'm doing this solo. I'm gonna rebleed with a whole bottle using hondas official method (WITHOUT pushing the pushrod in at the end) and using a CLEAR tubing this time so I can watch for air bubbles (i used a piece of black vacuum tubing)

ezone

Nice setup for jamming that arm LOL.......there was still a little travel so there should have been some corresponding pedal movement. But it should not have been mushy.

Ok so physical clutch check.......no hydraulics involved..... if you can use a pry bar to manually push the lever all the way to the side (you now make the lever move), the clutch SHOULD be completely disengaged. With the trans in gear, can you do that and will the car roll freely as though it was in neutral?




http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

and

eager2learn

Which way do you want me to pry it?

IDK how I'm gonna pry and have it stay in place...I'll figure something out LOL

ezone

Same direction the slave cylinder pushes it.
I'm just trying to figure out if the clutch fully disengages when that lever is pushed as far as it will go.
If the clutch disengages completely then the car can roll with the trans in gear.

Is the car on an incline of any kind? Will it roll in neutral?
In the shop our floors are level...If I lean my knees on a bumper that's enough to get a car to roll.

eager2learn

yeah its on an incline. ill do my tests n report back asap maybe by 4pm pt

okay im back its 140pm pt because i like to under-promise and over-deliver

anyways my testing is as follows

1. Put car in 1st gear w/ e-brakes down on AN INCLINE
2. Wedge release fork left and right and pry bar to test if clutch will disengage and car will roll down-hill

Test results came back negative


My slave-cylinder-rod also fell off so I thought I'd might as well test the free-play on my release fork and it is very loose:

Something tells me bleeding my system of air won't do anything...

What now?

By the way, ezone, your tp is facing the inefficient way. if you face it the other way u can just smack the tp and it unrolls, more efficient when you are in a time-crunch. all janitors should know this

eager2learn

I think I'm going to take it to a pro and tell him, "something wrong with my release bearing, doc, can u fix it?"

ezone

NO NO NO NO.

"My clutch pedal feels all mushy, please check it out?"

eager2learn

Ahhh. Good catch.

ezone

No, you haven't.

jennymalone36

linckage prob maybe

eager2learn

I'm back with an update for future reference.

It turns out my clutch-fork snapped. It broke.

My mechanic welded it back together.

I lost the photo.

It's working fine now.

ezone

WOW that's not a typical problem