Roosbok

I have some questions about the use of 5w20 oil, the grade which Honda has designed the Civic engine. The owner's manual recommends using it but it also says that 5w30 may be used if 5w20 is unavailable, but should be changed at the next oil change. Since recommended oil changes for Civics can be up to 10,000 miles you would have to assume that using 5w30 oil is not harmful to the engine, nor could the use of it void the warranty given the what is in the manual. I've read various opinions on 5w20. I've read that the primary reason that Honda and Ford have started using it is because of the federal CAFE regulations that the overall average mileage for all vehicles sold must be under certain limit. Using 5w20 oil achieves slightly better mileage results, usually less than 1 mpg, but because of the volumes involved, enough to meet the CAFE limits. Critics of 5w20 say that 5w20 has nothing to do with reducing engine friction and is actually too light to do the best job. In fact, to make 5w20 oil a viable engine lubricant, various additives are used to cause the oil to resist running off surfaces and achieve proper lubrication. The chemistry behind these additives are fairly advanced and the brand of oil used could make a difference. Without the additives, 5w20 would be insufficient as engine oil, and even with the additives the critics say the easier and perhaps better solution is just to use 5w30. On the other hand, proponents of 5w20 say that there are some benefits to the lighter oil in that it will work into the engine faster, and do a better job or penetrating tight seals and spaces, and that they are confident that the engines are best designed for 5w20, and that the major brands are all properly formulated.

I used 5w20 for the first oil change, at least that's what the Honda dealer said they used, I'm not positive they used 5w20 but that's beside the point. I've always been a believer in following the owner's manual, and I will probably continue use it for now, but after researching, I have become more skeptical. I really don't want to use a lighter oil than the engine should be using and wear it out faster, just because of this CAFE system to accomodate the SUV owners. Are my facts on the subject basically accurate? Is anyone using 5w30 or contemplating changing to 5w30 at some point? Just wondering what some opinions are on the subject.

astr033

Can we get a summary of that?? I've got a short attention span and don't feel like reading your dissertation there.

Thanks!

fraga

iTrader: (3)

I'll make this short. Use the Search feature. Search for 5W-30 or 20 and you'll find something. This has been talked about already. In before the lock.

Grey

iTrader: (61)

I changed my oil only once so far. I used a 5W-20 synthetic blend with those additives that you're talking about already in it. This has been talked about many times, but here's my point of view: The engines in our cars are manufactured to stricter tolerances than the previous generation of civics. This precision in manufacturing means that when engine internals rub against each other there is less friction than in the last generation of engines. Therefore, I think that you should follow your instruction manual if you're going to be driving your car rather normally. Sometimes reving past 5,000rpm's. If however you plan to race and you've got a lead right foot, then I think that replacing the oil with 5W-30 might be a good thing. It depends. Then again... Can we mix oils? If we could, then maybe I'de try a 50/50 blend.

Jon

next time search, cuz this has been talked about a lot but to answer your q my very last oil change this past saturday I did it myself and used Mobil1 syn 5W-30 but every other time before that I changed my oil at the dealership and obviously they used 20. I'm pretty sure the 20 is just for the mileage bullsh*t and from reading all the old threads on this topic it seems like 30 will preserve the motor for a longer time[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG]

my .02

avenger

[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

5w20 amsoil

01BlackEM2

I use Mobil One 5w-30 synthetic

FiresVTEC

i just switched to the motorcraft 5w-20 synth blend because it appears to be the only synth blend 5-20 out there...there are plenty of 5-30 blends though. next i will be switching to amsoil full synthetic though

ZZCIVIC

I just let the Honda dealer handle it. They use whatever is recommended. 5w-20. And in addition to the oil change, they have replaced a wiper blade, at no charge, they thought it was torn just a bit, inspect the car for any other things they see, and they wash the car. Not bad for just $19.95. And I don't have to dispose of the oil. I have a great Dealer...IMO...

And, it documents all oil changes for warranty information, and gives a great record of maintenance when you go to sell the car.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

BTW, they just use Havoline 5W20. Nothing special.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

silverdevil

iTrader: (5)

The reason they want u to use 20 is so they can rate the car as low emissions. But, the downside of that is it hurts your engine if you run it hard, as most of us do. I reccomend 5w30 or even 10w30, what I use, for the added protection. The higher the viscossity the more heat it can transfer so u do the math. Heat is the number one enemy of any engine. If u care about it, don't use 20.

Collective

As you said , this is all about the CAFE ratings.... if you want get a "1/10" of a mile better "fuel mileage" go with the 5w20, if you want better protection in the "heat" go with the 5w30 ! sounds to simple....

Diznavis

if its really just 0.1mpg or so difference, i think ill be changing to 5w30 at my second oil change

mohawkboom

iTrader: (1)

I use Mobilone 10w30 Synthetic..No problems.. no loss in power.."thicker oil true..but more lubrication from synthetic oil so it evens out"..

Cheers
Mohawk

pogi2k1ex

YES to simply put it the only reason why 5w20 is recommended is for GAS MILEAGE.....5w30 is fine, its what was recommended on my 2000 civic.....

if your using conventional oil change it every 3k

i've been using mobil1 5w30 since my first oil change...i change it every 5k and also next time i change it im gonna switch to 0w30

kalisjr

I wondered the same question why 5w20? The answer is not easy.

In summary the reason to use 5w20 or 0W20 or 5/20 is because the late model cars use special catylst converters which if you use the older oils from group III on down with cause these to burn up based on what I have read so take it for what it is worth it is not just fuel economy or CAFE standard as the reason.

Also if every oil must be tested for CAFE and be granted SAE values then we should be paying attention to this because every oil then is deemed good enough by the government, and unless the oil company says on their bottle they exceed this standard brand religion goes out the window unless you are talking about high milage oils which have many additives to deal with the older engine problems.

The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. Historically, the first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W" and "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W". The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature.

American Petroleum Institute
The American Petroleum Institute (API) sets minimum performance standards for lubricants. Motor oil is used for the lubrication, cooling, and cleaning of internal combustion engines. Motor oil may be composed of a lubricant base stock only in the case of non-detergent oil, or a lubricant base stock plus additives to improve the oil's detergency, extreme pressure performance, and ability to inhibit corrosion of engine parts. Lubricant base stocks are categorized into five groups by the API. Group I base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum which is further refined with solvent extraction processes to improve certain properties such as oxidation resistance and to remove wax. Group II base stocks are composed of fractionally distilled petroleum that has been hydrocracked to further refine and purify it. Group III base stocks have similar characteristics to Group II base stocks, except that Group III base stocks have higher viscosity indexes. Group III base stocks are produced by further hydrocracking of Group II base stocks, or of hydroisomerized slack wax, (a byproduct of the dewaxing process). Group IV base stock are polyalphaolefins (PAOs). Group V is a catch-all group for any base stock not described by Groups I to IV. Examples of group V base stocks include polyol esters, polyalkylene glycols (PAG oils), and perfluoropolyalkylethers (PFPAEs). Groups I and II are commonly referred to as mineral oils, group III is typically referred to as synthetic (except in Germany and Japan, where they must not be called synthetic) and group IV is a synthetic oil. Group V base oils are so diverse that there is no catch-all description.


[edit] API service classes
The API service classes[3] have two general classifications: S for "service" (originating from spark ignition) (typical passenger cars and light trucks using gasoline engines), and C for "commercial" (originating from compression ignition) (typical diesel equipment).

Note that the API oil classification structure has eliminated specific support for wet-clutch motorcycle applications in their descriptors, and API SJ and newer oils are referred to be specific to automobile and light truck use. Accordingly, motorcycle oils are subject to their own unique standards.

The latest API service standard designation is SM for gasoline automobile and light-truck engines. The SM standard refers to a group of laboratory and engine tests, including the latest series for control of high-temperature deposits. Current API service categories include SM, SL and SJ for gasoline engines. All previous service designations are obsolete, although motorcycle oils commonly still use the SF/SG standard. The obsolete SH standard was the last standard to contain the integral zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) levels needed for proper lubrication of approx. pre-1990 cars[citation needed]. Oils with higher ZDDP levels are still available from some manufactures, although much information is proprietary.

There are seven diesel engine service designations which are current: CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2, and CF. All others are obsolete.

It is possible for an oil to conform to both the gasoline and diesel standards. Engine oil which has been tested and meets the API standards may display the API starburst symbol with the service designation on containers sold to oil users.[4]

[edit] Synthetic oil and synthetic blends
Synthetic lubricants were first synthesized, or man-made, in significant quantities as replacements for mineral lubricants (and fuels) by German scientists in the late 1930s and early 1940s because of their lack of sufficient quantities of crude for their (primarily military) needs. A significant factor in its gain in popularity was the ability of synthetic-based lubricants to remain fluid in the sub-zero temperatures of the Eastern front in wintertime, temperatures which caused petroleum-based lubricants to solidify due to their higher wax content. The use of synthetic lubricants widened through the 1950s and 1960s due to a property at the other end of the temperature spectrum, the ability to lubricate aviation engines at temperatures that caused mineral-based lubricants to break down. In the mid 1970s, synthetic motor oils were formulated and commercially applied for the first time in automotive applications. The same SAE system for designating motor oil viscosity also applies to synthetic oils.

Instead of making motor oil with the conventional petroleum base, "true" synthetic oil base stocks are artificially synthesized. Synthetic oils are derived from either Group III mineral base oils, Group IV, or Group V non-mineral bases. True synthetics include classes of lubricants like synthetic esters as well as "others" like GTL (Methane Gas-to-Liquid) (Group V) and polyalpha-olefins (Group IV). Higher purity and therefore better property control theoretically means synthetic oil has good mechanical properties at extremes of high and low temperatures. The molecules are made large and "soft" enough to retain good viscosity at higher temperatures, yet branched molecular structures interfere with solidification and therefore allow flow at lower temperatures. Thus, although the viscosity still decreases as temperature increases, these synthetic motor oils have a much improved viscosity index over the traditional petroleum base. Their specially designed properties allow a wider temperature range at higher and lower temperatures and often include a lower pour point. With their improved viscosity index, true synthetic oils need little or no viscosity index improvers, which are the oil components most vulnerable to thermal and mechanical degradation as the oil ages, and thus they do not degrade as quickly as traditional motor oils. However, they still fill up with particulate matter, although at a lower rate compared to conventional oils, and the oil filter still fills and clogs up over time. So, periodic oil and filter changes should still be done with synthetic oil; but some synthetic oil suppliers suggest that the intervals between oil changes can be longer, sometimes as long as 10,000–15,000 miles.

With improved efficiency, synthetic lubricants are designed to make wear and tear on gears far less than with petroleum-based lubricants, reduce the incidence of oil oxidation and sludge formation, and allow for "long life" extended drain intervals. Today, synthetic lubricants are available for use in modern automobiles on nearly all lubricated components, potentially with superior performance and longevity as compared to non-synthetic alternatives. Some tests[citation needed] have shown that fully synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in many respects, providing better engine protection, performance, and better flow in cold starts than petroleum-based motor oil.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

^wow. i guess someone learned how to use the SEARCH feature....

a 7year old thread......wow

katzenjammer84

Every 3,000

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

^because it unlocks the whole 100 and-then-some horse power...right?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

no other oil delivers more horsepower

D5cIvIc

iTrader: (18)

i thought that was a spamming bot. no one in their right mind would type things like htat on their first post

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

hahahah steve, ur such a riot... lol

maybe he searched google and this thread popped out and he registered to make his point because he got excited talking bout oil?

there are weird ppl out there....

katzenjammer84

I could care less about power gains, there is none.

I run it because my car doesn't see a lot of driving time, so I'll keep the same oil in it for months on end. Synthetic is less prone to oxidization, and Castrol is one of the better synthetics.

katzenjammer84

Ah, the smartass comments have ended with logic apparently.

Protan988

There is also Valvoline Max Life 5w20 semi synthetic and high mileage

JetRudie

You can power 8 c-rexs with one bottle, baby!

It SAYS "ALL PURPOSE" doesn't it!?

and If you put the sticker on your windshield thats another 15 - 20 horses ... TO THE WHEELS!

lmao, thx for letting me join in on the fun