Bucking/stalling/coolant issues after sitting 24hrs or longer
#31
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It was not the coil. Car still doesn't start with the new coil and it still gives an orange spark. And despite the visible scorch marks, the old coil actually had the right secondary resistance after all. I just wasn't using my multimeter correctly.
Am I correct that the orange spark could be what's keeping the car from starting? Could a bad igniter cause an ORANGE spark? What else could be causing the orange spark?
FYI: Wires look OK & have acceptable resistance. Rotor & cap were replaced less than a year ago according to the previous owner. I've pulled main relay and will test it outside car for excessive resistance and such. I will also check fuel pressure- just to be sure...
Am I correct that the orange spark could be what's keeping the car from starting? Could a bad igniter cause an ORANGE spark? What else could be causing the orange spark?
FYI: Wires look OK & have acceptable resistance. Rotor & cap were replaced less than a year ago according to the previous owner. I've pulled main relay and will test it outside car for excessive resistance and such. I will also check fuel pressure- just to be sure...
#32
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Re: Bucking/stalling/coolant issues after sitting 24hrs or longer
DoH!
LOL, Umm have you tried just replacing your spark plugs? That would be amusing if that was the source of all your problems. Well, for me not so much for you.
What you want to look for on the main relay is stuff like this.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ont-start.html
see the 2 broken contacts at the bottom?
This poster never replied again after suggesting soldering it so I can only guess that solved his/her problem.
Good Luck!
LOL, Umm have you tried just replacing your spark plugs? That would be amusing if that was the source of all your problems. Well, for me not so much for you.
What you want to look for on the main relay is stuff like this.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ont-start.html
see the 2 broken contacts at the bottom?
This poster never replied again after suggesting soldering it so I can only guess that solved his/her problem.
Good Luck!
#33
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Changed the plugs the day after it wouldn't start. It will probably end up being something like that though...
Solder on my relay looks OK- right? (click pic...)
Solder on my relay looks OK- right? (click pic...)
#34
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Re: Bucking/stalling/coolant issues after sitting 24hrs or longer
It's kind of hard to tell from that resolution but it looks like 1,2,3 have been re soldered. 1 may be a dry joint but again hard to tell from that res.
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I really need help diagnosing this. Problem is a weak spark. Spark is there but it's orange and not strong enough to jump a 1/8 inch gap at the coil.
The car no longer runs.
Here's what I did:
First I tried a brand new coil, but still no start and weak spark. I bought a used distributor, and the car started right up and ran strong (but read on). I then installed a used computer that I had bought, and again everything worked fine. The next day I wanted to confirm my suspicion that the problem was the distributor housing, so I chisled out the rotor on the used distributor and installed the ignition module and coil from the problem distributor. No start and weak spark. I re-installed the igniter and coil that worked great the day before, but now they don't work either. After much effort I got the car to start once on that day but it wasn't running strong. In the days since then I have not been able to get the car to start at all.
I can't find any hints in my testing (see below), aside from that I am not sure whether the signal behavior is right. Anyone know of any links to what the signal is supposed to look like?
Questions:
- Should the signal to the coil be more equal amounts of on/off than what I am seeing (see below)?
- Is it possible that spraying water in the engine compartment temporarily "fixed" a corroded connection? (I hosed it down two days before the distributor install.)
- Should I test the main relay (I ended up not doing that) even though the fuel pump is working fine (40 psi) and the computer is getting adequate power for checking the codes and such?
- What else can I try (aside from a moped )?
Please help!
Coil resistances:
- negative to postive: around 0? (My analog multimeter doesn't measure in that range)
- negative to secondary: 16000 ohms
Voltage test results:
- Coil positive: 12 volts when ignition ON. Average 10 volts when cranking.
- Coil negative: 12 volts when ignition ON. Average 10 volts when cranking.
- Signal wire (yellow/green) 9.5 volts when ignition is ON.
Signal test results:
- Test light (coil negative to battery negative): Steady on when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly on, just off for an instant each cycle).
- Test light (coil negative to battery positive): Steady off when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly off, just on for an instant each cycle).
- Test light (yellow/green signal wire to battery negative): Steady on when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly on, just off for an instant each cycle).
- Test light (yellow/green signal wire to battery positive): Steady off when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly off, just on for an instant each cycle).
Continuity test results (with computer unplugged):
- distributor housing to battery negative: 0 ohms.
- distributor's crank sensor circuit (measured from computer plug): 400 ohms.
- distributor's cylinder sensor circuit (measured from computer plug): 400 ohms.
- distributor's top dead center sensor circuit (measured from computer plug): 400 ohms.
- crank sensor circuit to battery negative: infinite (no leakage)
- cylinder sensor circuit to battery negative: infinite (no leakage)
- tdc sensor cicuit to battery negative: infinite (no leakage)
- signal wire (computer plug red/greens to unplugged distributor plug yellow/green) 0 ohms
- signal wire to ground: infinite (no leakage)
- negative to postive: around 0? (My analog multimeter doesn't measure in that range)
- negative to secondary: 16000 ohms
Voltage test results:
- Coil positive: 12 volts when ignition ON. Average 10 volts when cranking.
- Coil negative: 12 volts when ignition ON. Average 10 volts when cranking.
- Signal wire (yellow/green) 9.5 volts when ignition is ON.
Signal test results:
- Test light (coil negative to battery negative): Steady on when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly on, just off for an instant each cycle).
- Test light (coil negative to battery positive): Steady off when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly off, just on for an instant each cycle).
- Test light (yellow/green signal wire to battery negative): Steady on when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly on, just off for an instant each cycle).
- Test light (yellow/green signal wire to battery positive): Steady off when ignition is ON. Flashes when cranking (mostly off, just on for an instant each cycle).
Continuity test results (with computer unplugged):
- distributor housing to battery negative: 0 ohms.
- distributor's crank sensor circuit (measured from computer plug): 400 ohms.
- distributor's cylinder sensor circuit (measured from computer plug): 400 ohms.
- distributor's top dead center sensor circuit (measured from computer plug): 400 ohms.
- crank sensor circuit to battery negative: infinite (no leakage)
- cylinder sensor circuit to battery negative: infinite (no leakage)
- tdc sensor cicuit to battery negative: infinite (no leakage)
- signal wire (computer plug red/greens to unplugged distributor plug yellow/green) 0 ohms
- signal wire to ground: infinite (no leakage)
#36
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PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
My record-breaking epic quest is over.
Turns out the distributor rotor was the primary cause of the bucking and stalling. The spark occasionally was "arcing through" the plastic and going into the distributor shaft, so it was not making it to the wires. The rotor was less than one year old and looked clean and perfect, so this was a surprise. It was an aftermarket rotor. I suspect it was defective from the factory.
The weak orange spark at the coil turns out to have been a bad ground. Someone had improperly reinstalled ground G1 (where the battery wire connects to the chassis), causing it to develop some corrosion. This also was making the starter motor sluggish.
I found and fixed some additional issues which don't seem to have been major contributors to this problem. They included:
- A small amount of oil leaking onto one of the sensors in the distributor.
- A bad electrical connection at T2 (where the ground wire connects to the head via the valve cover).
- Corrosion on ground G101 (where the computer grounds connect to the thermostat housing).
- Resistance too high on coil primary.
- High tension wires (spark plug wires) possibly not replaced in the entire history of the car! (They had "1993" printed on them.)
And just to make my life extra fun, the replacement distributor I purchased also had several issues:
- Bad cap
- Rotor rusted onto shaft.
- Resistance just slightly above range on coil primary (but still better than original coil).
- Oxidation on contacts of igniter. (The contacts looked like brass in decent condition, but it turns out they were not brass-- the yellow coloring was the oxidation! The igniter actually worked fine until after I removed and reinstalled it, ugh.)
Now all I have to fix is the head gasket, brake caliper, speedometer, tires, and body. This car is a lot of work.
My record-breaking epic quest is over.
Turns out the distributor rotor was the primary cause of the bucking and stalling. The spark occasionally was "arcing through" the plastic and going into the distributor shaft, so it was not making it to the wires. The rotor was less than one year old and looked clean and perfect, so this was a surprise. It was an aftermarket rotor. I suspect it was defective from the factory.
The weak orange spark at the coil turns out to have been a bad ground. Someone had improperly reinstalled ground G1 (where the battery wire connects to the chassis), causing it to develop some corrosion. This also was making the starter motor sluggish.
I found and fixed some additional issues which don't seem to have been major contributors to this problem. They included:
- A small amount of oil leaking onto one of the sensors in the distributor.
- A bad electrical connection at T2 (where the ground wire connects to the head via the valve cover).
- Corrosion on ground G101 (where the computer grounds connect to the thermostat housing).
- Resistance too high on coil primary.
- High tension wires (spark plug wires) possibly not replaced in the entire history of the car! (They had "1993" printed on them.)
And just to make my life extra fun, the replacement distributor I purchased also had several issues:
- Bad cap
- Rotor rusted onto shaft.
- Resistance just slightly above range on coil primary (but still better than original coil).
- Oxidation on contacts of igniter. (The contacts looked like brass in decent condition, but it turns out they were not brass-- the yellow coloring was the oxidation! The igniter actually worked fine until after I removed and reinstalled it, ugh.)
Now all I have to fix is the head gasket, brake caliper, speedometer, tires, and body. This car is a lot of work.
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