phil.stark

iTrader: (1)

tonight we burned about a half of a tank fine tuning with a wideband and an emanage install.

we stumbled across something, however. when we do a steady increase of throttle, with readings on the emanage of 20%, to 30%, 40%, 50's...when we hit about 60%, the car falls flat on it's face. we then have a rough idle with wideband readings of 10s and 11s. a restart of the car, and it's fine once again. we can haul pretty good with a steady increase, but giving it full throttle is scary, for the cause of detonation/lean burning/run crappy/bad stuff!

my mechanic has come to a simple solution that the car must have, due the obdII setup, a closed loop setup for open throttle. when i mean that, i mean that it's running in communication with the o2 sensors, constantly adjusting the mixture. when hitting full throttle, it stops communicating with the sensors, and goes off preset settings, and disregards anything happening, mixture and all.

daily driving will be fine, but high rpm running, and full throttle (60%-100%?????) should be avoided. we'd like to tie in the boost setting, rpm, mixture, EVERYTHING to a chart to be accurate on our emanage settings.

i posted this to see anybody's reaction, related experience, or any knowledge of this. advice is always considered, but i'm a firm believer in my mechanics knowledge that i haven't questioned.

thanks!

exturbo6

iTrader: (7)

i just bought em-manage..sounds pretty good. now my question for you is did the e-maage get rid of the injector unit for the kit?

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

Ok - here's the scoop. Our ECU (regardless of how many on here want to believe it or not), continually will adjust the fuel curves through the primary and secondary fuel trims. This only happens in closed loop, as you stated. The car is only in open loop on hard accelarations, cold start-ups, and at wide open throttle.

So, what does that mean? It means that you will have a beyatch of a time tuning the car for partial throttle response. WOT should be no problem, as the ECU relies on hard coded map values. Are you sure you aren't getting the two reversed (partial throttle and WOT)?

To combat my partial throttle A/F readings, I've installed a Split Second ESC1 between my primary O2 sensor and the ECU. When it sees 1 PSI of boost, it automatically sends a stoich signal to the ECU, tricking it to put out the same amount of fuel. This allows me to add more fuel with the emanage by the injection map. I still have a few small quirks in partial throttle, but my A/F is pretty consistant every time. It also holds in WOT as well. The key with this setup is to tune the car at WOT, and remove the necessary fuel at key points in the AR map for partial throttle - its tough, but it will work...

phil.stark

iTrader: (1)

It's funny that you should state not also hard accelerations, but cold start-ups also. Being winter, after the turbo install, my cold starts are terrible! I've had to babysit my car until the car warmed up. After about 20 minutes of driving around, it will hold a good idle.

My partial throttle is good, but WOT is terrible...just the opposite of what you had stated. We would watch the eManage, and when reaching above 50% throttle, it would sputter/choke, all types of weird stuff. So I've been sticking with about 30-40% throttle for the best increase without the car crappin out.

Our A/F mixture is in the 13.5-14.5 range, but with more throttle, it starts hittin' 15-16-17-18.

phil.stark

iTrader: (1)

Wow!

The ESC1 sounds pretty cool.

I emailed them on the cost, hopefully they cut to the chase and just tell me how much it is. I figured, heck, why not ask you...how much is it?

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

I got mine used from a guy on the Newcelica.org forums. I paid $125 for it I believe. They sell for $200 new - a rip off if you ask me. I was thinking of designing and making one myself. Its most expensive part is the damn MAP sensor in it. All it is is a comparator circuit, with a MAP sensor, and a voltage output. The comparator circuit just passes the original O2 sensor value to the output, when the MAP sensor reaches 1 PSI, it passes the false voltage signal. I don't know if they use a processor or not for their design, as I tried taking it apart, but its sealed in black epoxy - cheap way of preventing patent infrigment (ie either they didnt' patient it, or they don't want people copying it).

In any case, it works well....

I'd double check your emanage settings, it sounds like you have something hooked up wrong. There are other countless members on here that are not having issues such as those. I'd read the emanage FAQ for info on how to set it up properly to work with our cars - if it isn't set right, its going to have a fit....

Good luck!

dezod

iTrader: (74)

Sounds like your knocking bad at WOT. 13.5-14 under boost is way too lean. Not to mention, you may need to take out 1-2 degrees of timing in the mid-upper RPMS like we had to. I hope your also using a wideband O2 sensor kit like PLX or AEM......Don't tune off narrow band either.

Do not drive it anymore under boost until you get this tuned thoroughly. You causing damage to your engine in 14.5+ A/F range under boost. Your running way too lean.

2K1Civic17"Gabe

iTrader: (9)

good info Dezod. Thanks!

phil.stark

iTrader: (1)

which is the better investment:

1. ignition harness for eManage
2. Split Second ESC1

or will i need both? i must be mindful of the budget that just happened to tighten after the eManage purchase! Help!

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

ignition harness, definitely! The ESC1 is an extra item that is nice to have, but not ncessary...

phil.stark

iTrader: (1)

Thanks!

I'll let you know how it goes. I've got a person I know in town that's trying to get rid of his he hasn't even used.

You guys will make an example out of me afterall

bimmerjim®

thowing my 2 cents in here... (im the guy thats phil refers to as his mechanic)

like you guys mentioned, unless the car is at WOT, it will try to target stoichmetric. so, the AF values that phil is refering to is part throttle af ratios.... this will take a little to explain. i might ramble a little..

the first few days that we were tuning i didnt realize phil wasnt flooring it. so what would happen is i would add values to the emanage, we would acelerate and id watch the wideband, and make more changes. i know that everything is working because if i change the fuel values while the car is idleing, i can see the changes on the wideband instantly.

but the problem is this... we make a pull, i didnt realize it was a partal throttle pull. as you guys know, you can make full boost and not be WOT. especaly when working with a t25. anyways, we would make a pull, and id see the AF go rich for a second, then go lean. so i tryed adding more fuel in higher rpm where it was lean. then try again and it would be even worse. i fugured then that phil wasnt going WOT, thus, the ecu was trying to compensate by pulling fuel from the factory injectors. the more i tryed to add more fuel, the more the car would complain. occaionaly, the car would misfire completely, and im prity sure it would do that because it was trying to pull to much fuel from the factory injectors and it would then go into a failsafe "limp home" mode untill it was restarted.

so right now, all the values i have enered in the emanage are basicaly invalid because all the tuning we have done up to this point has been at partal throttle, and thats rather pointless to try and change.

so, im trying to convice phill to not be afraid to floor it. once i can get him to do that, then i think we will be fine.





also, phils issue on cold idle. durring the turbo install we notice the ELD sensor had gone bad. so we replaced it. i thought it might be a vacume leak from the injector block, but his vaccume is good. hes pulling about 19-20 mm/hg, and the only check engine code comes up as a the o2 sensor 2, bank one error (no cat) no other errors come up. anyone have any advice on this? im stumped.


anyways, iv babbled enough.

p.s. phill, i got gt4 today