About this whole DH love/hate thing
Skyline R33
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Houston, TX
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If you want to waite for proof. . Then waite. No one is saying spend your money now.. Why do people cry about **** and they are not even buying the products.. Just sit back and watch others around you..
I had two local shops tell me that the SF kit would not work and anything above 7psi would detonate.. Well there are alot of people running 11-12psi on the SF kit.. I see DH-racing as being the same.. Maybe once there is proof and people start jumping on the bandwagon then you will see the prices go up..
So i will take the time to test out some products..
I know all those crying probably got burnt on the max 10hp you got out of I/H/E.. That put you out at least $600.. Waite isn't that the same price as heads.. I dont care what type of engine it is. Air make power.. Isn't that the reason Turbo works..
Like I said if you are not a customer stop complaining You are not the ones investing time or money..
I had two local shops tell me that the SF kit would not work and anything above 7psi would detonate.. Well there are alot of people running 11-12psi on the SF kit.. I see DH-racing as being the same.. Maybe once there is proof and people start jumping on the bandwagon then you will see the prices go up..
So i will take the time to test out some products..
I know all those crying probably got burnt on the max 10hp you got out of I/H/E.. That put you out at least $600.. Waite isn't that the same price as heads.. I dont care what type of engine it is. Air make power.. Isn't that the reason Turbo works..
Like I said if you are not a customer stop complaining You are not the ones investing time or money..
Originally posted by ati9700pro
Im almost falling into this side. Seeing how as i live in canada and our money is pretty much worthless I dont see myself spending 150+ us dollars for it to be something thats usless and wont improve anything. I also would like to see some proof before i chose what i will do.
Im almost falling into this side. Seeing how as i live in canada and our money is pretty much worthless I dont see myself spending 150+ us dollars for it to be something thats usless and wont improve anything. I also would like to see some proof before i chose what i will do.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: NV
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Wow, guns makes a great point. And so many members here can justify paying $600 just for I/H/E that gives 10hp. I'm glad I stopped after my AEM intake that actually made me lose power.
So many people on here were complaining that no parts were availabe for our cars to make them fast. Now that there are, alot of you still aren't happy. I know what's going on here. You guys want a cheap part that will make your car fast and fit perfectly. Well, unfortunately that will never happen. Making parts work is all part of the process.
When SF was starting out, the first turbo kits were tested by members here. A good vendor will support their customers, just as DH is doing now. You can't expect a product to perform perfectly. People here are even complaining about how ingen cold air intakes and other known brands are having problems.
What gets me is how the people against DH are not the ones buying their products. It's your choice whether to buy from them or not. But to talk badly about their products without even trying them is plain wrong. So if you're not jumping on and buying the parts, you should just stand back and wait for the dynos.
Oh and I read a few posts on honda-tech that all you haters seem to love so much. From what I saw, it sounds like a bunch of kids bashing a company with no reason. You guys say DH needs to provide dynos, but at the same time say their products suck. WHat are you basing that on?
I've never seen people get so worked up over this. Some of the replies I read in the other thread are shameful. Some of the members here have no respect at all. Don't go around bashing because you THINK you know everything about cars.
So many people on here were complaining that no parts were availabe for our cars to make them fast. Now that there are, alot of you still aren't happy. I know what's going on here. You guys want a cheap part that will make your car fast and fit perfectly. Well, unfortunately that will never happen. Making parts work is all part of the process.
When SF was starting out, the first turbo kits were tested by members here. A good vendor will support their customers, just as DH is doing now. You can't expect a product to perform perfectly. People here are even complaining about how ingen cold air intakes and other known brands are having problems.
What gets me is how the people against DH are not the ones buying their products. It's your choice whether to buy from them or not. But to talk badly about their products without even trying them is plain wrong. So if you're not jumping on and buying the parts, you should just stand back and wait for the dynos.
Oh and I read a few posts on honda-tech that all you haters seem to love so much. From what I saw, it sounds like a bunch of kids bashing a company with no reason. You guys say DH needs to provide dynos, but at the same time say their products suck. WHat are you basing that on?
I've never seen people get so worked up over this. Some of the replies I read in the other thread are shameful. Some of the members here have no respect at all. Don't go around bashing because you THINK you know everything about cars.
Originally posted by gearbox
What gets me is how the people against DH are not the ones buying their products.
What gets me is how the people against DH are not the ones buying their products.
Read some of my posts, there ARE other options, DH anf SF are not "saviors". I stated that if Josh could show me a DH intake manifold and throttle body combo that can make his claimed 30hp that I would buy it. Let's see it and the proof!
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Dallas, PA
Rep Power: 607 Originally posted by dober
It makes perfect sense to me. If you don't like something you don't buy it. Like I said I started to call BS when Josh posted rediculous horsepower claims. It's his own fuggin fault it got this far.
Read some of my posts, there ARE other options, DH anf SF are not "saviors". I stated that if Josh could show me a DH intake manifold and throttle body combo that can make his claimed 30hp that I would buy it. Let's see it and the proof!
It makes perfect sense to me. If you don't like something you don't buy it. Like I said I started to call BS when Josh posted rediculous horsepower claims. It's his own fuggin fault it got this far.
Read some of my posts, there ARE other options, DH anf SF are not "saviors". I stated that if Josh could show me a DH intake manifold and throttle body combo that can make his claimed 30hp that I would buy it. Let's see it and the proof!
Registered!!
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From: Zulu Alpha Tango Foxtrot
Rep Power: 311 Originally posted by gearbox
Wow, guns makes a great point. And so many members here can justify paying $600 just for I/H/E that gives 10hp. I'm glad I stopped after my AEM intake that actually made me lose power.
So many people on here were complaining that no parts were availabe for our cars to make them fast. Now that there are, alot of you still aren't happy. I know what's going on here. You guys want a cheap part that will make your car fast and fit perfectly. Well, unfortunately that will never happen. Making parts work is all part of the process.
When SF was starting out, the first turbo kits were tested by members here. A good vendor will support their customers, just as DH is doing now. You can't expect a product to perform perfectly. People here are even complaining about how ingen cold air intakes and other known brands are having problems.
What gets me is how the people against DH are not the ones buying their products. It's your choice whether to buy from them or not. But to talk badly about their products without even trying them is plain wrong. So if you're not jumping on and buying the parts, you should just stand back and wait for the dynos.
Oh and I read a few posts on honda-tech that all you haters seem to love so much. From what I saw, it sounds like a bunch of kids bashing a company with no reason. You guys say DH needs to provide dynos, but at the same time say their products suck. WHat are you basing that on?
I've never seen people get so worked up over this. Some of the replies I read in the other thread are shameful. Some of the members here have no respect at all. Don't go around bashing because you THINK you know everything about cars.
Wow, guns makes a great point. And so many members here can justify paying $600 just for I/H/E that gives 10hp. I'm glad I stopped after my AEM intake that actually made me lose power.
So many people on here were complaining that no parts were availabe for our cars to make them fast. Now that there are, alot of you still aren't happy. I know what's going on here. You guys want a cheap part that will make your car fast and fit perfectly. Well, unfortunately that will never happen. Making parts work is all part of the process.
When SF was starting out, the first turbo kits were tested by members here. A good vendor will support their customers, just as DH is doing now. You can't expect a product to perform perfectly. People here are even complaining about how ingen cold air intakes and other known brands are having problems.
What gets me is how the people against DH are not the ones buying their products. It's your choice whether to buy from them or not. But to talk badly about their products without even trying them is plain wrong. So if you're not jumping on and buying the parts, you should just stand back and wait for the dynos.
Oh and I read a few posts on honda-tech that all you haters seem to love so much. From what I saw, it sounds like a bunch of kids bashing a company with no reason. You guys say DH needs to provide dynos, but at the same time say their products suck. WHat are you basing that on?
I've never seen people get so worked up over this. Some of the replies I read in the other thread are shameful. Some of the members here have no respect at all. Don't go around bashing because you THINK you know everything about cars.
Also - if you read the HT forums than you see that most of the people over there don't put up with crap (as in "Oh yeah, I have a 1000 HP civic"). HT is a technical community,with a lot of posts that have evidence based on facts, figures, and photos (and of course word of mouth, like all other sites). A lot of the folks on the HT forums are racers themselves, who spend a lot of time at the track, and really don't care too much about making their cars look good as much as making them faster. When someone comes into their forums and starts talking trash - with no evidence to back up their claims, than people start getting upset. Yes, there are a lot of @ssholes over on HT, no forum is without them.
All most of us are asking for on this forum is proof of their claims, that's all. Than they can truly say that their products walk the walk, and have proof to back it up. It sort of reminds me of the saying "All the BSing ends when the light turns green...."
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: NV
Rep Power: 811 Yes, but engines are based on a similar concept. I remember reading a long time ago about how turbo would never give good gains on the d17 because of the ulev rating. With every development, there has to be testing and perfecting. Don't hate on something unless you know the real facts. I did buy the DH pulley and head, but I'm not saying anything about gains until I get everything tuned. Let's wait for the facts before we start bashing.
I agree that Josh has posted estimations of hp gains with his new products, and I think this is the only reason everyone is so mad. I guess if he didn't say anything there would be no problems...
And you're right. If you don't like the product (for whatever reason it may be), then don't buy it. There's no need to talk badly about something you have not even tried. The dyno should put an end to all this eventually. Just give it time and save your bashing for later, when and if you can base it on fact.
I agree that Josh has posted estimations of hp gains with his new products, and I think this is the only reason everyone is so mad. I guess if he didn't say anything there would be no problems...
And you're right. If you don't like the product (for whatever reason it may be), then don't buy it. There's no need to talk badly about something you have not even tried. The dyno should put an end to all this eventually. Just give it time and save your bashing for later, when and if you can base it on fact.
El Pinche Turbo Mexicano
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From: Monterrey, MEXICO
Rep Power: 0 i think the biggest problem is stating how much HP will or could be obtained from parts, and not proving it, if they would have said "the PnP head will give you some hp's" or "it will raise your hp's" thats fine, but saying that i will do a surtain amount with out a dyno is wrong, everyone knows that the D17 engine does not make as much power as the d16 one did with the same mods,, im not saying its a bad engine, but just take bolt ons for example...
Thread Starter
Turbo Member
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From: Salisbury, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 330 You cant realy compare porting and pollishing your cylinder head w/ bolting on an intake and an exhaust system though. The pnp will totaly change the charactoristics of the engine wich will actualy make it respond better to bolt ons.
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From: Dallas, PA
Rep Power: 607 Originally posted by opto_isolator
Also - if you read the HT forums than you see that most of the people over there don't put up with crap (as in "Oh yeah, I have a 1000 HP civic"). HT is a technical community,with a lot of posts that have evidence based on facts, figures, and photos (and of course word of mouth, like all other sites). A lot of the folks on the HT forums are racers themselves, who spend a lot of time at the track, and really don't care too much about making their cars look good as much as making them faster. When someone comes into their forums and starts talking trash - with no evidence to back up their claims, than people start getting upset. Yes, there are a lot of @ssholes over on HT, no forum is without them.
Also - if you read the HT forums than you see that most of the people over there don't put up with crap (as in "Oh yeah, I have a 1000 HP civic"). HT is a technical community,with a lot of posts that have evidence based on facts, figures, and photos (and of course word of mouth, like all other sites). A lot of the folks on the HT forums are racers themselves, who spend a lot of time at the track, and really don't care too much about making their cars look good as much as making them faster. When someone comes into their forums and starts talking trash - with no evidence to back up their claims, than people start getting upset. Yes, there are a lot of @ssholes over on HT, no forum is without them.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Lexington, KY
Rep Power: 584 Originally posted by gearbox
I've never seen people get so worked up over this. Some of the replies I read in the other thread are shameful. Some of the members here have no respect at all. Don't go around bashing because you THINK you know everything about cars.
I've never seen people get so worked up over this. Some of the replies I read in the other thread are shameful. Some of the members here have no respect at all. Don't go around bashing because you THINK you know everything about cars.
Originally posted by gearbox
C2i0v0i1C, well you always know what you're talking about,
C2i0v0i1C, well you always know what you're talking about,
i can pretty much base everything i have said on common automotive sense, there are just some things that u should know not to do...for example, these people "PORT MATCHING" thier exhaust gasket with a dremel, wtf is that ****, are u nuts, why dont u go out back and dremel some more on ur engine and see what happens, thats just common sense and it tells u that u shouldnt do that..
now the second quote came about bc of head bolts which by the way i paid 68 bucks for not the 100 .......josh has been reusing them over and over, fine and dandy for him, and for dave.....but takeing the head off and retorquing the bolts down stretches the metal, common sense tells you, you would not want to use stretched distorted bolts again...none the less its your choice, but the outcome of something going wrong will be very bad should it happen...
i dont claim to know alot about cars, but i do know unsatisfactory work IMO when compared to satisfactory that i have seen, the last ported head that i saw on here looked like lopsided ports to me, angle or not, LETS BE SERIOUS HERE. ive also seen a pulley by DH in person, yea it looks pretty, but then again so do all brand new parts.
There are also reasons major companies TEST FIRST then REALEASE .vs. RELEASE FIRST then TEST, that is also common sense right there..how you gonna make something release it to public and then find the porblems and try to fix it.
on my list DH isnt quite at the top or near it, i sometimes wonder if people on this site are afraid to pick up the phone or hell get on the internet and find out what there is really out there. maybe its mone, maybe its time, i dont know......but theres a saying BUYER BEWARE.
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From: Dallas, PA
Rep Power: 607 Originally posted by C2i0v0i1C
now the second quote came about bc of head bolts which by the way i paid 68 bucks for not the 100 .......josh has been reusing them over and over, fine and dandy for him, and for dave.....but takeing the head off and retorquing the bolts down stretches the metal, common sense tells you, you would not want to use stretched distorted bolts again...none the less its your choice, but the outcome of something going wrong will be very bad should it happen...
now the second quote came about bc of head bolts which by the way i paid 68 bucks for not the 100 .......josh has been reusing them over and over, fine and dandy for him, and for dave.....but takeing the head off and retorquing the bolts down stretches the metal, common sense tells you, you would not want to use stretched distorted bolts again...none the less its your choice, but the outcome of something going wrong will be very bad should it happen...
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: NV
Rep Power: 811 C2i0v0i1C is right. The other guy I was talking to at Advance said the same thing about the head bolts. If they break in the future, your engine is screwed. He did tell me $10 per bolt, but maybe because his honda is older? But I'll be getting new bolts from the dealer, along with gasket. Better safe than sorry.
And this is what I like to see--people sharing their ideas about this stuff. Any other suggestions about the head install would be appreciated. There is definately some stuff I don't know about.
And this is what I like to see--people sharing their ideas about this stuff. Any other suggestions about the head install would be appreciated. There is definately some stuff I don't know about.
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From: Dallas, PA
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From: Lexington, KY
Rep Power: 584 they dont make them genious, ull have to buy a stock one, and thats where i got mine at HONDA, for 68 bucks, and then send them one to be made, and by then, u could just have installed the head already, with the stock ones and been fine, its not like hes forcing air in, and going to blow something
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: NV
Rep Power: 811 Anything else I would need for this? So far it looks like head bolts and head gasket. Someone also mentioned coolant (antifreeze?) and oil.
well i was at DH Racing and i have seen proof of the ALL MOTOR or should i say "AL MOTOR" beast. I have seen Josh's motor in his rex and he has one fast SOHC. I believe in DH and i know that the products they have will help out alot. I for one have the PnP Head, Intake Manifold and Throttlebody Combo. As soon as I get the Intake Manifold and TB i will dyno.
Originally posted by ImportRacer2123
I believe in DH and i know that the products they have will help out alot.
I believe in DH and i know that the products they have will help out alot.
Skyline R33
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by dober
I'm not questioning this, I want proof of the hp claims. We should get this straight, I'm not taking anything away from their abilities and no one can doubt what Dave Hickman has done. Has anyone seen their Ebay ads? Maybe if they set some standards for themselves they would come off as a more reputable company.
I'm not questioning this, I want proof of the hp claims. We should get this straight, I'm not taking anything away from their abilities and no one can doubt what Dave Hickman has done. Has anyone seen their Ebay ads? Maybe if they set some standards for themselves they would come off as a more reputable company.
Damn these kids on here got to go...
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Dallas, PA
Rep Power: 607 Originally posted by guns
Damn dude.. Just shut up about it and wait till someone posts their results.. you are not out any money, so stop crying...
Damn these kids on here got to go...
Damn dude.. Just shut up about it and wait till someone posts their results.. you are not out any money, so stop crying...
Damn these kids on here got to go...
DH comes on here selling a PnP head that makes over 40whp...but what most ppl don't know is that that 40whp is on a b18 which is DOHC.
And you can't make claims about your work unless it is proven........DH says, "well, the d17 is basically the same as any other d series motor". I don't buy it......is it really that hard to dyno a product b4 selling it?
Skyline R33
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by civic01vtec
kids?....not quite....dober is one of the few on this site that knows their **** and researches. What dober is saying is this......
DH comes on here selling a PnP head that makes over 40whp...but what most ppl don't know is that that 40whp is on a b18 which is DOHC.
And you can't make claims about your work unless it is proven........DH says, "well, the d17 is basically the same as any other d series motor". I don't buy it......is it really that hard to dyno a product b4 selling it?
kids?....not quite....dober is one of the few on this site that knows their **** and researches. What dober is saying is this......
DH comes on here selling a PnP head that makes over 40whp...but what most ppl don't know is that that 40whp is on a b18 which is DOHC.
And you can't make claims about your work unless it is proven........DH says, "well, the d17 is basically the same as any other d series motor". I don't buy it......is it really that hard to dyno a product b4 selling it?
If he trusts in his SF kit then why not trust DH.. If you read SF's(Catalyst's) posts he claims an estimated 300hp on his stage 2 kit..
What is stage 2? It is SF+DH= estimated 300hp...
It just seems that people are on some bandwagon of complaining.. if you are not out money then why cry about it.. Just sit back while others around you are working on there cars..
Oh BTW I do not know **** about cars.. I bolted on my own turbo kit and had help tuning it..
I like to learn the hard way.. But in the end I learn and understand how things work.. I do not just drop off my car for a week and pick it up tuned and running fast.. When there is a problem I want to know how it went on so I know how it works... So before people jump on my *** for being new.. Ya I am white, I live in a trailor park and I am mentaly retarded..
So keep it on the post..
No Title
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From: Los Angeles
Rep Power: 0 I have no opinion on this issue.
But, I am wondering what kind of work DH does besides the P&P? If the numbers and price is good, it might be a substitute for the SF turbo that is not street legal, yet. I don't know, I would still love to hear the sound of the BOV...
But, I am wondering what kind of work DH does besides the P&P? If the numbers and price is good, it might be a substitute for the SF turbo that is not street legal, yet. I don't know, I would still love to hear the sound of the BOV...
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From: Dallas, PA
Rep Power: 607 Originally posted by guns
Ok cool.. BUt he has a SF turbo kit and SF give estamated HP.. It has been months and SF says they will dyno at 11psi as soon as they get a new clutch.. Damn how long does it take to get a new clutch.. SO dober bought a SF kit based on estimated HP figures... Isn't that the same as DH-racing is doing..
If he trusts in his SF kit then why not trust DH.. If you read SF's(Catalyst's) posts he claims an estimated 300hp on his stage 2 kit..
What is stage 2? It is SF+DH= estimated 300hp...
Ok cool.. BUt he has a SF turbo kit and SF give estamated HP.. It has been months and SF says they will dyno at 11psi as soon as they get a new clutch.. Damn how long does it take to get a new clutch.. SO dober bought a SF kit based on estimated HP figures... Isn't that the same as DH-racing is doing..
If he trusts in his SF kit then why not trust DH.. If you read SF's(Catalyst's) posts he claims an estimated 300hp on his stage 2 kit..
What is stage 2? It is SF+DH= estimated 300hp...
And as far as Catalyst making 300whp with just a PnP head.
I am willing to bet that he had extra work done to that head besides a PnP.
