Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

So the idea began milling around in my head today after a nice ABS lock up almost caused my car to spin (on falken azenis tires, no less). Typical "oh-damn" moment, hit the brakes, ABS kicked in, went to swerve and that *** end almost came right around. Had the wheel at opposite lock and managed to save it, but I'm still majorly ticked off.

I feel like the better I've gotten at heel-toe shifting and the faster I've been able to brake the more the ABS just wants to engage. It's not a staged system like in newer cars. That damn thing is either all the way on or all the way off. I've been driving the car stock for years now and the only thing I can't reasonably predict is when that ABS wants to kick in. I can't tell you how many autocross run's became DNF's because I couldn't get back on the brakes after ABS kicked in, sending me screaming off course.

Does anyone currently daily drive without abs? I understand for track purposes it's better under most circumstances, but I've heard strong arguments for both keeping it and swapping it out. What do you guys think?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

locking up... not sure of the 6th gen system too much...
my problem starts when one rear wheel lifts and the ABS kicks in...

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

I'm wondering if that will happen to me once I get the suspension work done. Usually sway bars cause that doggy leg effect?

ezone

All of my life until this October when I bought my 12 Civic.


ABS UNlocks a locked wheel. It cannot lock a wheel, that generation does not have that ability.
They didn't gain that ability until traction and stability assist came into play much later.


If you regularly drive beyond the limits of sanity:
Just pull the fuse to disable your ABS, and then give it another test drive on the ragged edge of insanity.
See what happens.
Once you lose it there, it will be entirely your own fault for overdriving the limits of you and/or your car.
At least without the ABS working, your limits should be more predictable.

You may want to put a toggle switch in the dash to manually disable the ABS for "track purposes".

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

I spoke incorrectly. You're right, it unlocks the wheel, however it's that very inability to hit the brakes once it tries to unlock that makes it frustrating. Normally (from what little I know), if you lock up the brakes without ABS, as soon as you lift off you can hit it again and get the same initial bite. With ABS, once it tries to unlock the wheel, I can't get back on it at all.

I keep it safe on the streets, but I do not have any mercy once I get on the autocross course. I've been driving it stock long enough to know what the car can and can't handle (hence why I am very much anticipating a nice set of coilovers). I will find an open parking lot (or wait for the weekend when the campus lots empty out) and I'll disable it then and give it a good thrashing. I am confident I can modulate the brake without lock up, I've been doing it for awhile now. I just feel that the ABS has been limiting me from finding the true limit of the car.

I am told you can brake much later with ABS, but I don't believe that's true. If you modulate your shifting and braking properly you should be able to brake as late as the next guy, assuming equal cars and brake systems.

I'll give some updates when I do some testing with it disabled. To me it really just sounds like one of those things that are just personal preference.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

ezone, we are talking about doing it in a closed space, and event is sanctioned either by NASA or SCCA, under strict regulations, also including safety, so don't worry
Zeferint,

i can lock the front wheels but it's when i engage the clutch too late (so the engine rev have dropped too much and it locks the wheels (i was unsure of the functioning of the ABS on the 6th gen).
when to engage the clutch is the trickiest part of heel-toe, i would say.

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

^^ I totally agree. And what sucks is every time I put on a new pair of shoes its like re-learning the process all over again.

For ha-ha's I had some time after class today, pulled the ABS fuse and went down to the monstrous wal-mart parking lot on the carlisle pike. Found a huge open space and just did some straight-line braking from 50-0, and all I can say is wow, what a difference. Was very crisp and the pads bit pretty hard. Didn't have any lock-up issues.

Put the fuse back in, did some more 50-0's. It braked basically in the same distance, but still had that initial lag (lag is probably not the right word, but you get the idea). That crispness just wasn't there like it was with the ABS off.

I wish I had video to show, but my go-pro is at home

I am still thinking about keeping it at least for driving in the winter. Perhaps I'll just leave the fuse out for summer driving when I have the sticky tires and pads, but throw it back in when the blizz-ax's and oem pads go back in.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

let us know what happens in the next event (ye never know until you get on the track )

maxtierney

iTrader: (5)

Here's the problem driving with no ABS on the streets, in a panic stop your right/left foot instinctively reverts to years of ABS programmed muscle memory. I am old enough to have started driving before ABS was standard on all automobiles. Pumping the pedal was instinctive. I slowly lost that over the years by driving modern cars. A couple years ago I picked up a 91 Sentra SE-R as my daily. A truck came to a sudden stop in front of me and I stabbed at the brakes. Full skid. I let off quickly and proceeded to modulate. Unfortunately, that one second or two of time cost me 20 feet of stopping distance. Totaled my car. It's one thing thing to brake in a controlled environment, and another to relearn years of habit. Just trying to look out for you, bro.

Zeferint

iTrader: (2)

That's an excellent point, max. I hadn't considered instinct and muscle memory, but now that you mention it you're totally right.

Could I just pull the ABS fuse at the track, then put it back in and drive home? Or is it a little more complicated than that?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

drive both ways for a while, during the warm season, testing the modulation and not forgetting when you have ABS on or not.
if you just deactivate at track, ye have only there to learn the car without abs.

when i can see far ahead, and cannot see anyone around, i play on trying to make the ABS not kick in (not all the time, of course...)
(reminder - streets are unpredictable, though... today, i soiled meself - the opposite lane was stopped by traffic, so a fire truck came on our way - the opposite way... we heard the sirens and worndered where it was coming from, when we saw the truck coming our way... quick check on right lane, brake and dive in there... quick abs on, though...)

Artificial

iTrader: (1)

I don't mind driving without ABS. I've never been able to lock up the wheels on a dry road, but I haven't tried it on a wet one.

With only a few months of driving on my, also without ABS, winter came. I was pretty sure not having ABS wouldn't be a problem. I was right, infact it was probably a blessing. I heard so many of my friends at school saying they can't stand when ABS kicks in. Some even said they couldn't stop when they needed to and went past a stop sign or whatever.

KurtzN1

I would not take out ABS for the street. I think it's very important when driving on the street as some pointed out where you can't predict every turn or other people's driving action and sometimes ABS does kick in for your own safety.

Alister91

I would not take out ABS for the street. I think it's very important when driving on the street as some pointed out where you can't predict every turn or other people's driving action and sometimes ABS does kick in for your own safety.

rjones7755

Im kinda glad this idiot brought the thread back....abs has made me overshoot stop signs a couple times because the wheel skips over pavement for a split second and it kicks in. Its a dumb system where its either on or off like zef said. Im really tempted to pull the fuse but i dont want the abs light always on and i know at some point it will probably help me, that is if it hasn't made me crash by then.

STIKILLA

PERSONALLY MYSELF I DESPISE ABS MY CIVIC IS ACTUALLY MY ONLY VEHICLE THAT HAS ABS I DON'T LIKE HOW THE PEDAL FEELS WHEN ITS KICKING IN, I GUESS IM JUST OLD SCHOOL AND LIKE TO FEEL AND CONTROL THE CAR MYSELF BUT I HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN CONSIDERING DISABLING THE ABS SYSTEM IN MY CIVIC ASWELL, WHEN GOING 300KM/H PLUS I'D RATHER HAVE PREDICTABLE STOPPING POWER AND FEEL THE CAR RATHER THAN HAVE AN ABS SYSTEM KICK IN AND THROW MY DRIVING OFF. BUT.... IF I WHERE TO CHANGE UP TO A BREMBO BIG BRAKE KIT WILL THIS REMOVE THE STOCK ABS OR INTERTWINE IT??

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

silly question...
and loose the darned caps from your keyboard.

why are you yelling?!?!?

300km/h... pfff....

big brake kit deleting ABS... pffff... pf. b. b... bw... bwa! bwaaaaaaahahahahahaha!

better yet, i will turn the caps on so i will be louder:

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAH!

ah, Zeferint is MIA for some time now (months), so no much point in replying to him.