TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Looking for crowers number...

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Okay, just got off with crower. Called 12/1/08 @ 2:22p-2:29p

He didnt have a set of maxi light rods on the shelf, but he did have the regular rods on hand. He weighed the reg crower rods at 570g and said the maxilight rods would be aprox 520g. That weight is for one rod, including the hardware.

He said it would be 6 weeks or so till a maxi light set came through that he could really weigh.

I also asked if these would work with stock pistons, and not just aftermarket. He said they would because they use the stock pins. (I thought everyone was saying if you have aftermarket rods then you need aftermarket pistons??)

He didnt know if these were interchangable between the d17a1 and the d17a2 though- I thought I'd ask because I couldnt remmeber off the top of my head.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

A1 and A2 pistons are the same. Order them up!

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

I need to figure out the weight of the stockers. Anyone know?

And havent people been saying that you need aftermarket pistons with aftermarket rods, as in the stock pistons wouldnt fit? I remember hearing this like it was common knowledge... anyone else remember that?

wikkaco0

Yeah, I also remember talk about needing aftermarket rods for aftermarket pistons a couple years back. Think it was talk about the wrist pins.

Here's what I know and found.

The stock pistons in the D17 use 19mm wrist pins. This is the same as the D16.

Wiseco aftermarket pistons specifically for the D17 have 19mm wrist pins. (According to their catalogue)
http://www.wiseco.com/Catalogs/Sport...AcuraHonda.pdf

Seeing as most people use the Wiseco pistons with Crower rods for forced induction, I would have to assume the Crower rods also use 19mm wrist pins.

Compression height for the Wiseco and stock pistons are both 27mm. Wiseco pistons are desgned to be used with 137mm connecting rods. Again, same as stock.

To conclude, I bet you can use aftermarket pistons on stock rods.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

^ its under 500 grams I weighed them back in October and it was either 430 or 470 grams I can't remember I think 470 and I can't find where I wrote it down and my gram scale is at work, so I can't check till wednesday.

Also you can't use stock pistons on the crower rods It says so on there website. Go to http://www.crower.com/cat/import/honda/rods/rods.shtml look down the list at the D17 civic rods and look over to the right and you will see a little yellow diamond and if you scroll down a little bit and it will tell you what that diamond stands for (Indicates pin end width will not fit in OEM pistons. Must use aftermarket brand.)

I am pretty positive it is due to the fact that the stock rods have the pin pressed into them while the crower rods have a free floating pin that held in with circa-clips

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Paul, PM me your address so I can ship that steering rack to you.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

So gx pistons will work with d17a1/a2 rods... I need to find someone to weight of gx rods and whats good with them- they are D17 rods so they will fit.

That being said... should D16 rods fit in a D17? I'm not famil exactly with the term "big end" To google....



Ahh I cant find a digargram where they the measurments are taken, I need to run to class

D17alltheway

can you use a d16 crank? and get the block notched? or would the d17 crank be better?

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

well I believe a long time ago gerry tried to stick a d16 bottom end in a D17 or something.The crank snout probably has to be machined and I think that there is an issue with using the crank gear on a d16 cause there is one less notch on it than the d17 and you just can't get the crank and cam triggers to run right or something.

essentially the d16 and d17 are similar but if you break it down into lamens terms the d17 is in essence a stroked d16 crank.

good luck finding some one that has a gx that is ripped apart and I don't think the guys in the warehouse in detroit are going to go searching the whole warehouse for the set of gx rods to weigh them. they might if you bring them cake... but the cake is a lie lol

I think the big end is different on the d16.

you have two ends on a rod the small end or PE(pin end) where the wrist pin and piston go and then you have the Big end wich is the end that goes around the crank shaft.


I was talking to Jeff Evans today about crower forced induction rods and we got onto using stock rod on aftermarket piston. It can Be done. BUT you have to machine the piston and the rod and grind off some metal and it is alot of work and it really isn't worth it. Its kinda ghetto kinda like cutting off every 3rd tooth on the syncro rings of your transmission so it shifts easier on the drag strip when your putting out alot of power. the reason why crower says you can't do it is cause the aftermarkets use a different style of pin than the stock honda

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

The guy at the Honda parts desk knows me pretty well, I'm hoping the next time I'm in town I can stop by and have him ask someone to weigh one, or if thats impossible, he'll probably order one for me even know he knows I'll be returning it if weighs more then the crower rods. Hes seen me ask for some non-traditional parts for my vic over the years.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

So I looked up the GX pistons on majestics website (orig looking for the price on how much it might cost to order one connecting rod) and I found this...

So there are three different size GX pistons??? What is this about- does this mean, that there is a 75mm, 75.25mm, and 75.50mm piston available? I've never seen three different stock piston sizes before. Anyone know what the deal is?

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

there over sized pistons honda does it with almost every motor there is standard 1/4mm oversized and 1/2 mm oversized.

It cause when you change pistons in a block you need to rehone the block and that takes away material eventually you loose too much material and you have to bump up to a large piston andy had to go .50 overbore on his last set of pistons after the last motor blew. But a word of warning if you go .50 overbore and something happens and you need to put in new rings or something if you really really lucky you might be able to get a very light hone on the cylinder but it is very easy to loose too much and once you go past .50 the block is shot unless of course you want to cut the stock sleeves and re-sleeve the block but that will usualy cost you a $1000.

Also they don't really like to separate up a set of rods cause they are usually pretty closely matched on the weight but supposedly there is only One set of GX rods in the country and they are in a warehouse in Detroit (I have very very good sources lol) If you do get one, take a picture of it for me cause I want to know if it is bigger then stock or shot peened.

7thgenMugen

iTrader: (3)

Hey Bomerman, Foos said you were getting your NA vic dynoed today. How'd that go? Most of us are are real interested in some hard numbers on a good NA built engine.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

Not as good as I wanted let me first say the exhaust breathes great and so does the intake mani there is no restriction there what so ever but before I went I knew that there was a wall in there some where and I found it.



120hp and 118tq


The cam is too big for it. there is not enough static compression to make use of the cam. Essentially it need more pressure in the cylinder ie. boost or high comp pistons. the torque band is kinda nice though, it starts at 90 at 2000 rpm is up to 115 @ 2300 rpm and then fluctuates between 100 and 118 all the way to 6500 rpm. And it is soooo smooth the car feels like it came that way from the factory.

I have the stage 2 downstairs in the box so that might go back in last time I had that in I got 144 with the most messed up map ever shitty exhaust and stock intake mani so I should still be able to break 150 easy. But jeff is not going to be scheduling anybody for a tune till mid jan early feb.

I will post my graph up once I get it scanned in so probly tomorrow night.
wasn't a total loss I finally got reliable dyno charts that tell me pretty much everything I need to know about the motor to get the most power out of it in the future. and the car really does run butter smooth it amazing how smooth it is.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Where did you hear there is only one set in the country....? I'm not too sure how accurate this statement really is. I'm sure I could find a few sets, at least.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

From a contact of mine he got onto the honda parts database that told him that there was a set of 4 rods in detroit and it said there was only one set. which honestly I would not be surprised honda does not keep to many parts that are not in demand in stock I manged to get the last 4 honda fit diff bolts in the country and I had to wait for them to make the other 6 that I needed I still haven't gotten them yet and I ordered them in july. also the top cone ring that I needed for one of my transmissions no one had it was back ordered throughout the entire country and I was put 21st on the waiting list it took them two months to get that part made and sent to me. I now keep a couple spares from some destroyed transmissions I had.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Well shoot. I'll see if I cant get a set, and if not, I'll see what companies will be willing to make some lightweight rods for me. How many people can say they have custom rods in their motor and have it actually be true. We'll have to see what time constraints I get on.

2005EM2

iTrader: (7)

Man, this thread is getting better and better. I hope I go NA with my D17 one day

D5cIvIc

iTrader: (18)

was this on a dynojet or dynapack?

7thgenMugen

iTrader: (3)

custom Cunningham Rods FTW!

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

Dynapack his are pretty accurate same dyno andy hit 489hp on.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

it shouldn't be too hard to get a set of gx rods but if some one grabs them before you, you will just have to wait till they make another set probably 2-5 months at most

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Are we sure that gx rods and pistons will work... aka, no valve tapping or bending..? It does have a pretty massive dome on it.

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

When are you going to put high compression pistons in?

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

they should, the head and the cam shaft are the same as the d17A1 non-VTEC
the only real difference is the fuel delivery system and intake mani cause it is running on natural gas
when I get some money

I have a block on the stand waiting for them to go in i just need new bearings and the pistons. But I am about to quit work to go back to school full time. And with as much chaos and destruction as I have caused to engines and transmissions this year I am a little strapped for cash plus I have a trans that is on the fritz and gets worse every day (it does not like to let go of first gear, i think it suffers from separation anxiety lol) And I have another project for the civic that is going to take alot of time and possibly some more money. did some one say RHD?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

I'm worried with a different camshaft.. aka crower stage 2 or 3... is that going to have too much lift and jam the valve in the piston?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

For a D16, but valve weights:
http://d-series.org/forums/showthrea...ersized+valves

I gotta check these out- Laskey Racing- Aftermarket valves:
http://www.laskeyracing.com/shop/valvetrain.htm

Also for a D16, but good info on building NA D series:
http://d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21761

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

well the D17A2 VTec is really close already if you look close at the pistons they have small valve reliefs cut into them just for the stock cam shaft and as we have seen the stage 2 and 3 don't hit them as long as you check that you have not made your valve lash to tight. So I can't see the gx pistons really running into the the valves even with a hotter cam. I would also crank it over by hand a couple of times just to make sure.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

For sure. Plus I can always have the reliefs machined a little more to fit nicely- the only real problem with that is when it comes time to calculate compression with those online compression calculators. Unless there is a way to do it manual with your specific motor, although I personal dont know of one, not saying there isnt a way to do it- anyone know?

I need to hit up google and see if I can dig up a chart to show the difference in compression ratios and what type of fuel will be needed to maintain those.