Opinion on big brake kit
Autocross Junky
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Originally Posted by james1983
if you want better stopping without putting your ride on a diet, better pads, fluid, and maybe SS lines? And if Ive read the above posts correctly slotted rotors really dont decrease stopping distance?
Pads will alter the Feel and general opperating temp of the brakes (Terminal fade point and bite)
Fluid, wont change feel or any thing other then increasing the boiling temp of the fluid (allowing higher opperating points) Boiling brake fluid suxs btw.. From personal experiance.
SS lines Can help improve pedal feedback (the feel of the pedal) as they remove a bit of compliance in the brakeing system, but thats pretty much it.
Rotors dont alter stopping distances At all, they only influence the overall opperating temp of the brakes. though slotting does have the benifit of helping reduce the chance of glazing your pads under heavy repeated use. Drilling is more or less pointless, unless you are trying to save a few oz of weight.
As stated by texascivic2k1 and others througout this thread. You want to stop quicker? Get better tires.
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Originally Posted by CIVIC X3
would getting the rsx master cylinder+BBK+ss lines make breaking more better? rather then just gettin the BBK
Originally Posted by Zzyzx
Meaning, the amount of brake torqe the tires can apply to the ground hasent changed, just the amount of pedal travle needed to reach that point. (so stopping power hasn't changed).
1) I believe you're incorrect about the benefits of more pistons on a caliper. The mechanical force generated by the caliper is the pressure multiplied by the area of the pistons on the caliper body. If pressure (from Master cylinder) is constant, the resulting force is still greater due to the increased area. In short, it increases clamping force.
F = P x A
2) Better calipers plus a bigger rotor yields greater torque due to the greater radius of the rotor (torque = force x distance)
3) Yes, the brakes can only be as effective as the tires that transfer that brake torque--but what if the tires haven't reached the effective limit? The friction increases with a larger contact patch--and if people have switched from stock tires to wider aftermarket tires then you're dealing with different torque numbers and hence different friction capacity.
4) Back to big brakes: you mentioned having to replace discs and it being costly. Well one of the reasons discs need to be replaced is--you guessed it--high temperature that exceeds the storage capacity of the rotor.
Will you ever reap the benefits on the street with a BBK? Probably not. But it's peace of mind--just like how BMW drivers love the skidpad numbers of their 3 series without ever putting their cars to the limit.
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for 1-2 all you've done is alter how much you have to push on the brake pedal to reach the tires lock up point. i.e you've changed the "Feel" of the brakes.
for 3, I have yet to run a set of tires the stock brakes couldnt lock up, and I've run some Very sticky rubber before. (Autocross compitition and open track)
and for #4. the only place I've seen people consistantly over heat the stock rotors is on track. and if you are doing track days and have learned to push the car that hard, then ya larger rotors may be needed (ask Boilermaker, as he does more track days then me).
To quote the fine people at SCR racing
and
http://www.teamscr.com/grmbrakes.html
for 3, I have yet to run a set of tires the stock brakes couldnt lock up, and I've run some Very sticky rubber before. (Autocross compitition and open track)
and for #4. the only place I've seen people consistantly over heat the stock rotors is on track. and if you are doing track days and have learned to push the car that hard, then ya larger rotors may be needed (ask Boilermaker, as he does more track days then me).
To quote the fine people at SCR racing
brake system modifications have their place to help make your ride more consistent, predictable, and user-friendly; however, if your ultimate goal is to decrease your stopping distance, look no further than the four palm-sized patches of rubber connecting your ride to the ground.
You can take this one to the bank. Regardless of your huge rotor diameter, brake pedal ratio, magic brake pad material, or number of pistons in your calipers, your maximum deceleration is limited every time by the tire to road interface. That is the point of this whole article. Your brakes do not stop your car. Your tires do stop the car. So while changes to different parts of the brake system may affect certain characteristics or traits of the system behavior, using stickier tires is ultimately the only sure-fire method of decreasing stopping distances.
Last edited by Zzyzx; Apr 5, 2006 at 11:18 AM.
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1. The pressure/area relationship is true. You're neglecting the Pressure/Volume relationship.
pressure is constant, and so is the volume the master cylinder pushes in a stroke. The stock caliper cavity is designed with this in mind. A multi-pot may or may not (probably not). This equates to the pedal's travel. If the caliper has too much volume in it, then pushing all those pistons may require MORE fluid volume than the MC is capable of pushing in a single stroke. Meaning you'll never get full clamping power, and you can end up with less effective braking force than you started with. If its too small of a volume, you'll have an incredibly short pedal stroke, effectively turning the pedal into an on/off switch, which is equally useless.
2. is true in the mechanical sense assuming the pad extends all the way to the edge of the rotor.
3. I've never seen a set of tires you can't lock up if you try. A deciently designed set of brakes will always be able to overpower tires, even on dry pavement.
4. Stock rotors overheat in about 10 minutes of open lapping. shorter when its hot, not much longer if its cold. Pulling the backing plates off yielded another minute or 2 before super spongyness set in. This worsens throught the day as the rotors never fully cool.
Switching to ITR brakes (11.1" vs 10.3) I was able to run 25 minute sessions w/o fading, 3 sessions a day. The end of the third session was the only time I noticed any bit of fade, but it was fairly insignificant to the nearly total loss of braking power I'd experienced with stock brakes.
On the street, I would find this to be quite impossible to accomplish given the fact that high speed panic stops are a rarity, and definitely don't happen in rapid succession for extended periods of time. As long as the car is moving w/o brakes applied, they're cooling, so I don't see major overheat being an issue.
pressure is constant, and so is the volume the master cylinder pushes in a stroke. The stock caliper cavity is designed with this in mind. A multi-pot may or may not (probably not). This equates to the pedal's travel. If the caliper has too much volume in it, then pushing all those pistons may require MORE fluid volume than the MC is capable of pushing in a single stroke. Meaning you'll never get full clamping power, and you can end up with less effective braking force than you started with. If its too small of a volume, you'll have an incredibly short pedal stroke, effectively turning the pedal into an on/off switch, which is equally useless.
2. is true in the mechanical sense assuming the pad extends all the way to the edge of the rotor.
3. I've never seen a set of tires you can't lock up if you try. A deciently designed set of brakes will always be able to overpower tires, even on dry pavement.
4. Stock rotors overheat in about 10 minutes of open lapping. shorter when its hot, not much longer if its cold. Pulling the backing plates off yielded another minute or 2 before super spongyness set in. This worsens throught the day as the rotors never fully cool.
Switching to ITR brakes (11.1" vs 10.3) I was able to run 25 minute sessions w/o fading, 3 sessions a day. The end of the third session was the only time I noticed any bit of fade, but it was fairly insignificant to the nearly total loss of braking power I'd experienced with stock brakes.
On the street, I would find this to be quite impossible to accomplish given the fact that high speed panic stops are a rarity, and definitely don't happen in rapid succession for extended periods of time. As long as the car is moving w/o brakes applied, they're cooling, so I don't see major overheat being an issue.
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Originally Posted by Boilermaker1
4. Stock rotors overheat in about 10 minutes of open lapping. shorter when its hot, not much longer if its cold. Pulling the backing plates off yielded another minute or 2 before super spongyness set in. This worsens throught the day as the rotors never fully cool.
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