Major overhaul after 250K miles... - Honda Civic Forum

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Major overhaul after 250K miles...

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Old 06-01-2015
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Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Background:

My 2002 civic EX sedan has about 250K miles on it, but has been well cared for, for the majority of those years. Recently its been showing its age and its time for a major service. Hoping to get another 100k+ out of her as my kids start driving.

Took it in to the Honda dealer for an airbag recall and they gave me a bill for the recommended repairs that came out to a whopping $6200. That is without the head gasket replacement and corresponding head re-machining.

So I decided its time to do a major overhaul.

Things that I know need to be fixed or replaced:
  • Front Rotots and Pads
  • Rear Pads (maybe drums?)
  • Front and Rear Shock absorbers
  • Head Gasket (did the blown head gasket test)
  • timing belt
  • water pump
  • brake and power steering fluid flush
  • cooling system overhaul (new hoses)
  • engine belts
  • heater core replaced or unclogged (blocked, temperature rises in engine when heater on)
  • Valve adjustment
  • alignment
  • SRS Light fix
  • Horn replacement

Pretty big list... Mind you, I am not much of a mechanic. A few brake jobs, a valve adjustment, fluid changes, etc are the most I have done. Fortunately for me I have a great friend down the street who helps with a constant supply of the right tools for the job and good advice! Everyone needs a friend like this one. Unfortunately, he wasn't awake last night at midnight ...

So far I have removed the radiator and AC Condensor and have made a few mistakes already.

I was working on getting the radiator out, going by the manual, but it was getting late and I started to just go with the flow. Around midnight, for some unknown reason I decided the AC Condensor had to come out to get the radiator and cooling fans out. So like a genius, I undid the top metal hose connector to the AC Condensor, yes while it was under pressure, brilliant I know.

So, first couple of questions

1) what else should I do while I am doing a cooling system overhaul, heater core repair / replacement, timing belt, water pump, head gasket, shocks, brakes, etc?

2) How big of a mistake was it to disconnect the AC condensor the way I did? Hoping I didn't damage anything in the process...

Hoping to put as much elbow grease into this process as needed, but as few $$$ as needed as well. That said, if there are things that I should replace while I am in there that don't cost an arm and a leg, it makes sense to swap them out. Planning on getting a full timing belt and head gasket kit. Not sure how many or which hoses to replace...

I'll be taking my time with this, and will update this thread as I make progress. Will update with some pics along the way

Any advice appreciated...

Wish me luck
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Old 06-01-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Hmm, thought I put this in the 7th gen section, now to figure out how to move it...
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Old 06-01-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Thread moved.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Thanks for moving!

Looks like I need to add a new airbox to my list. Pulled mine off to get access to the throttle body and get ready to remove the head and saw this
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Front Rotots and Pads
Rear Pads (maybe drums?)
Front and Rear Shock absorbers
Head Gasket (did the blown head gasket test)
timing belt
water pump
brake and power steering fluid flush
cooling system overhaul (new hoses)
engine belts
heater core replaced or unclogged (blocked, temperature rises in engine when heater on)
Valve adjustment
alignment
SRS Light fix
Horn replacement

I'd do stuff in groups, like

Head gasket job (includes valve adjustment), timing belt, belt set, water pump, cooling system stuff as one big job.
Plus oil change, maybe a couple times.
Use factory parts: tensioner pulley with spring, factory water pump and coolant, and a factory thermostat.

Heater core??? I haven't seen problems here, but that's not saying much.
Factory hoses usually seem to last a super long time unless they get oil soaked or overheated. Aftermarket hoses don't seem to last nearly as long as originals.





Suspension and maybe brakes as another big job. Then you only have to pay for wheel alignment one time after all suspension is done. Better check the front LCA compliance bushings and ball joints before you start.

Rear brakes might still be in good shape. The originals take forever to wear, most will outlast the cars here..


2) How big of a mistake was it to disconnect the AC condensor the way I did? Hoping I didn't damage anything in the process...
You're killing my ozone layer!
*hugs a tree*
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Originally Posted by 7thgensurvivor View Post
Thanks for moving!

Looks like I need to add a new airbox to my list. Pulled mine off to get access to the throttle body and get ready to remove the head and saw this
I got a spare one if you need it, it's looks like you just the need part that holds the filter on the thottlw body
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Old 06-02-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Originally Posted by usajags84 View Post
I got a spare one if you need it, it's looks like you just the need part that holds the filter on the thottlw body
Generous of you, thank you! Yes, it is the lower part of the airbox that holds the air filter and connects to the throttle body.

PM inbound...
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Old 06-02-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
I'd do stuff in groups, like

Head gasket job (includes valve adjustment), timing belt, belt set, water pump, cooling system stuff as one big job.
Plus oil change, maybe a couple times.
Use factory parts: tensioner pulley with spring, factory water pump and coolant, and a factory thermostat.

Heater core??? I haven't seen problems here, but that's not saying much.
Factory hoses usually seem to last a super long time unless they get oil soaked or overheated. Aftermarket hoses don't seem to last nearly as long as originals.





Suspension and maybe brakes as another big job. Then you only have to pay for wheel alignment one time after all suspension is done. Better check the front LCA compliance bushings and ball joints before you start.

Rear brakes might still be in good shape. The originals take forever to wear, most will outlast the cars here..

You're killing my ozone layer!
*hugs a tree*
Thanks for the advice. Planning to combine the cooling system fixes with the timing belt and head gasket. Will do the water pump, pulleys, etc of course and the hoses. Subsequently will do the brakes and suspension.
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Old 06-06-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Help, got stuck!.

I've been making slow but good progress. Got the throttle body, exhaust manifold and the thermostat housing (not sure what you call this part) removed.

I'm stuck trying to get the wiring harness out of the way. The wiring harness that connects to the ignition coils and fuel injectors. On the drivers side behind the valve cover, the wiring harness connects to some junction and I can't figure out how to free it. The wiring harness gets in the way of easy access to the intake manifold, so it feels like it needs to be removed, or moved out of the way, and this is the last piece that is keeping me from doing so. Anyone got any advice?

I've attached a couple of pics, one from a ways away so you can see the position, and one a little closer.
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Old 06-06-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

IIRC there's a tab that needs pushed (or pulled) to let it release from its mount, similar to several other connectors that attach to metal tabs.


I unbolt the intake and pull the head out by itself though.
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Old 06-14-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Still looking for ideas on how to remove this wiring harness. Anyone know?
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Also, any advice on getting the valve cover off the engine? I undid all 5 of the bolts, and followed all the steps, but that sucker won't budge.

Thanks.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Originally Posted by 7thgensurvivor View Post
Still looking for ideas on how to remove this wiring harness. Anyone know?
Leave that harness block attached to the engine, and disconnect and remove all the rest of the wiring from the parts you will remove (intake manifold and whatever is attached to it).

Originally Posted by 7thgensurvivor View Post
Also, any advice on getting the valve cover off the engine? I undid all 5 of the bolts, and followed all the steps, but that sucker won't budge.

Thanks.
Have you got the wiring stuff away from the valve cover, valve cover is completely unobstructed? The rubber gasket may just be stuck to the head. You may need to do some prying to get it to raise up.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Leave that harness block attached to the engine, and disconnect and remove all the rest of the wiring from the parts you will remove (intake manifold and whatever is attached to it).


Have you got the wiring stuff away from the valve cover, valve cover is completely unobstructed? The rubber gasket may just be stuck to the head. You may need to do some prying to get it to raise up.
Thanks Ezone! Took your advice. Got the intake manifold off (PITA getting to some of those bolts). And borrowed a rubber mallet to loosen the valve cover and get it off.

Got the engine mount off the driver's side and the top timing belt cover. Seems like the 3rd bolt in the top timing belt cover (the one in the back nearest the driver) was in a broken plastic holder, so that was a bear.

I think I may have found a minor problem with BlueEM2's write up.

In one of the steps he mentions you should "Remove the upper bracket for the passanger side engine mount". Thinking this should say "driver's side engine mount", unless I am missing something. Does the passenger side really need to be removed?

Wondering if I should replace the engine mounts while I am at this. Any recommendations for affordable, but reliable engine mounts for the d17a2?

Next step is to get the crank pulley bolt off and get the head removed. So far its been enjoyable, with a little bit of maddening mixed in.

Wish me luck!
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Old 06-14-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

I think I may have found a minor problem with BlueEM2's write up.

In one of the steps he mentions you should "Remove the upper bracket for the passanger side engine mount". Thinking this should say "driver's side engine mount", unless I am missing something. Does the passenger side really need to be removed?
Your common sense is working LOL
Ok, I edited that post....I hope Blue doesn't mind...


Wondering if I should replace the engine mounts while I am at this.
ONLY if there is a problem.
Any recommendations for affordable, but reliable engine mounts for the d17a2?
Factory mounts ONLY.
Aftermarkets will cause annoying vibration, they are a waste of money. JMHO.
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Old 06-15-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Alternator out and crank pulley bolt / nut off. Didn't pull the crank pulley off yet, and didn't see the woodruff key. I assume that will come out when I pull of the crank pulley? Why am I pulling that thing off anyway? Guess I will figure that out soon.

Breaking that crank pulley bolt was incredibly satisfying. I was sure it was the breaker bar extension that broke and not the nut, but fortunately I was wrong
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Crank pulley off and woodruff key recovered. Got the lower timing belt cover off. It has several broken corners, I am guessing from whoever changed it last time, as I think I have been pretty careful. Guess I will have to replace the lower TB cover...
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

As a part of this job, I am planning on taking out the valves and cleaning them and reseating them using a hand lapping tool.

Curious if this is the right way to extract the valves from a D17A2:


Thoughts? Thinking to take them out after getting the head out, but could be just as easy to remove them while it is still attached to the block.
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Old 06-16-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

but could be just as easy to remove them while it is still attached to the block.
The head must be removed before you can get the valves out.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Yes of course, not thinking or working on this too late.

Head comes off tonight / tomorrow.

Any thoughts on whether the video linked above works for valve removal or whether you need the valve spring compressor?
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Thinking the compressor will be needed for getting the valve springs back on.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

....

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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

....

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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Ok I watched most of it. I don't agree with half of how they are doing things.



Got a real valve spring compressor ready?

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Old 06-17-2015
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

No, I don't have a valve spring compressor yet. Going to have to check if the local shoot will loan me one.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

anything left to do before I pull off the head? BlueEM2's write up mentioned replacing the camshaft seal and needing to remove the camshaft gear and the back cover. Should this be done before removing the head?

Took a look at my intake manifold and it is pretty gummed up. Any advice for thouroughly cleaning it?
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Originally Posted by 7thgensurvivor View Post
anything left to do before I pull off the head? BlueEM2's write up mentioned replacing the camshaft seal and needing to remove the camshaft gear and the back cover. Should this be done before removing the head?
I have the tools to do it either way.
Took a look at my intake manifold and it is pretty gummed up. Any advice for thouroughly cleaning it?
I clean the carbon out of the ports and EGR passages in the injector plate. I don't normally see a need to mess with the actual intake manifold, but you can do whatever you want.



Also, my usual goal is to get the customers car back on the road in a timely manner, not do a total restoration LOL.

HTH
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Took a closer look at things and the intake manifold doesn't look bad, its the part that it connects to (probably the injector plate you mentioned) that is metal that actually mates to the head that is all gummed up. Been using some throttle body cleaner on it.

In this case, I have time, and want to get everything done right and in one shot if I can.
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Been using some throttle body cleaner on it.
Scrape it out first while it's dry. (Might be too late now.)

TB cleaner just makes everything gooey. LOL
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Re: Major overhaul after 250K miles...

Thanks ezone. Scraped it out. Looking better now.
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