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Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Hello, all. I am coming to you at a complete loss. TLDR is my 04 civic, 1.7, auto refuses to run in spite of having compression, fuel, and spark.
The long story starts with my driving in the road looking at the scenery. Next thing I know, I'm in the scenery looking at the road. I shut the engine off while waiting for my dad to pull me out of the fence row I put her in, because I knew it busted the radiator. Got pulled out, started up and drove home about a mile, where I left it over night. Started it twice more to move it and get it into the shop, where it sat for about 6 weeks while I was dicking around, replacing a crumpled control arm, radiator, etc. Finally got it buttoned up enough for a test drive, and the dang thing wont start. It kind of tries, will hit on one cylinder every so often, occasionally it will even sputter across all cylinders like it's out of time.
Here is everything I have tested.
25k mile timing belt is tight, no floppage during cranking. Confirmed to be in time by dowel rod in cylinder.
Sparking on all four cylinders, confirmed signal with scope, and physically at plugs.
Injectors pulsing on all four cylinders at 10.8 volts during cranking. Can smell wafts of fuel after cranking.
40 psi fuel pressure at rail, the pump can even keep up when I hold the bleeder down on my fuel pressure tester.
170+ psi compression across the board.
EGR is not stuck open.
ECT sender is working, unplugging it makes no difference.
TPS working.
Tried jumping ground to a couple different spots on the motor, no change.
Unplugged all other non essential sensors individually, to no avail.
Only DTC is O2 heater circuit, which was there before all this started.
No flashing immobilizer key.
Definitely not a weak battery, have had charger hooked up during trouble shooting.
Live data on my el cheapo code reader says 5 degrees advance and fuel trim of .798 (if I remember correct) during cranking. No idea what normal is.
Looked everywhere for cut/crushed wiring and mouse damage, but can find nothing.
I've been cranking on this turd for quite a while and haven't concluded any correlation to when the car tries to hit off, or tries to run (still sounding kinda like it's out of time), apposed to cranking continuously without hitting at all for several seconds. Note that it only tries to hit off and run sputtery about one out of ten start attempts, maybe even less often. The only other hint I can think to give is that maybe 3 out of 5 times I'm cranking and let off the key, it will hit on one cylinder and then be done.
I'm not a mechanic, just a lowly parts man. Any help for where to go from here would be greatly appreciated.
OF top 99.5% creator (Formerly of the Puffinblunts variety)
Joined: May 2012
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re: Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Might be flooded? Crank engine with gas pedal fully depressed.
Doesn't solve it then put a cap full of oil in each cylinder and crank again as mentioned above.
OF top 99.5% creator (Formerly of the Puffinblunts variety)
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,634
Likes: 109
Rep Power: 210
re: Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Might be flooded? Crank engine with gas pedal fully depressed.
Doesn't solve it then put a cap full of oil in each cylinder and crank again as mentioned above.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 11, 2021 at 09:50 PM.
re: Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Originally Posted by BrotatoChip
What if you unplug the crank position sensor then try starting?
Should it be able to run without a crank sensor? For me, there is no change between crank plugged in, and not. I threw a cam sensor at it, and it weirdly started trying harder to run, but still only a hit or two at a time, just way more consistently than before. Still no difference between crank plugged in, or not.
Exhaust is not restricted by mice or anything more than when it was parked.
Will put crank and cam sensors on scope this weekend. I understand the ends of the double pulse waves from crank and cam should line up, so aside from quadruple checking that it's mechanically in time, I guess I'm just looking for erratic behavior from either sensor.
Found this thing resting where the lower control arm mounts to the frame on the drivers side. No clue at all what it is. It simply has to be something kicked up by the tire and left there for me to wonder about, but enlighten me, if you know what it is. Some kind of piston or vvt part? Unknown item Unknown item #2
re: Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Originally Posted by HR Puffinblunts
Might be flooded? Crank engine with gas pedal fully depressed.
Doesn't solve it then put a cap full of oil in each cylinder and crank again as mentioned above.
It likely may be flooding it, since it almost always hits right away on the first crank of the day. HOWEVER, my deflooding mode does not seem to be working, as it's still sputtering even with the gas pedal fully depressed, cranking continuously for up to 10 seconds. Live data shows max value of 92% on TPS (if I remember correctly). Could that not be high enough to cut off the fuel pulse?
re: Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Originally Posted by John Kesterman
Should it be able to run without a crank sensor? For me, there is no change between crank plugged in, and not. I threw a cam sensor at it, and it weirdly started trying harder to run, but still only a hit or two at a time, just way more consistently than before. Still no difference between crank plugged in, or not.
We've seen others have issues with running due to failing crank sensors. Unplugging it allows it to run as a check anyways (CEL surely on and in limp mode). Was the CAM sensor OEM or from a parts store? These things do not jive well with non OEM sensors.
Originally Posted by John Kesterman
Found this thing resting where the lower control arm mounts to the frame on the drivers side. No clue at all what it is. It simply has to be something kicked up by the tire and left there for me to wonder about, but enlighten me, if you know what it is. Some kind of piston or vvt part?
Doesn't look familiar to me.
Originally Posted by John Kesterman
Live data shows max value of 92% on TPS (if I remember correctly). Could that not be high enough to cut off the fuel pulse?
Does it show 0% with no throttle input? If that were not enough to disable fuel you could just pull the spark plugs and let it sit for a few hours. If it is flooded it would dry up in that time.
Does your scanner also read MAP? What is it showing?
re: Cranking no start, everything checks good [solved]
Solved. (?)
Ugh, So after all the confusion, it was the simplest thing after all.
Blew out spark plugs, actually down inside them where fuel was still collected. and after a little more cranking, it runs.
I never would have thought it would still be flooded in the first place, simply after sitting for two months.
Between plugs appearing dry before first start of the day and the use of de flooding procedure, I assumed it was not just a flooding issue.
I guess another lesson is, just because wet plugs spark at the electrode outside of the cylinder, doesn't mean they will installed.
Originally Posted by BrotatoChip
Does it show 0% with no throttle input? If that were not enough to disable fuel you could just pull the spark plugs and let it sit for a few hours. If it is flooded it would dry up in that time.
It was showing 2% I believe, Will double check stats now that it's running again.
Thanks for your help!