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transmission issue here we go again ut oh

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Old Nov 30, 2013
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transmission issue here we go again ut oh

03 Honda civic lx, coupe, auto, 1.7 156,000 miles (used to own a 01 civic lx 4 dr auto 1.8, I sold at 185,000 miles 22 months ago now i wonder why)
the other car the tranny went at 120,000, total failure, no warning, no indicator lights, cel, absolutely nothing; other than the cruise control indicated some issue whether it was a red flag to the tranny failure IDK...
well after 45,000 the tranny was indicating that it was going to fail so i researched and decided to sell it and i let the person know that the tranny had been replaced and was wearing down they didnt appear to care they wanted it because it was well maintained. i did history check on the 03 civic and found that the 03 04 and 05 civics seemed to have less "issues" with them specifically the transmissions..so i found this car 133,000 mi for a great price (i should have known that was a red flag right there) any way here are the symptoms as best as I can describe:
cold weather appears to cause the symptoms to become more prominent
start up there had always been a slight shake to the car only in idle, neutral and park when driving there is no shake smooth ride. i am leaning towards a mount going or gone bad somewhere i havent had the time or energy to investigate this to date but now i just may look at it more closely.
at every shift there is a hard shift, notable jump in rmps about 800 to 1000. no noises that i can hear but my hearing is going so idk.. i havent driven it that many miles since this symptom appeared but after the previous car i am now very concerned.
i have heard that it could be a tps issue that not always is it the clutch going bad in automatics or not necessarily eminent failure if you address the issue before mechanical issues become a problem. I heard that it could be a sensor or some other part that is easy to replace and not necessarily going to need a rebuild to fix the problem. I know my way around cars but not when it comes to transmission. the tech who did the trans fluid change test rode it and said it is going to fail. the question remains why is it going to fail? i have also heard that many honda owners never have any warning before the transmissions fail. now i want to know why? are the sensors bad and that is why they end up in failure? cause it seems to me when you are looking at 1 in 6 accords and civics end in failure seems that something is malfunctioning somewhere and most of them never have a warning i have read far too many complaints on honda over the past 5 years to just accept that this is "normal" most cars have a warning at least most other makes give a warning before failing.. so this gives me the HHHMMMM affect.
i had a transmission fluid change (not a flush; only because I do not want the dw1 fully circulating in the system until I know what it will do to the problem and cost of 100 + more for the flush and if it is a failure issue then why bother?) when i got the car the fluid was perfectly bright pink, now before the change it was very paled and there are slight signs of metal wear on the stick, so this is why i decided to rejuvenate the fluid a bit to see how it affects the symptoms.
I am ready and prepare to replace with a re-manufactured transmission, yet only if i absolutely need to if i can replace a 20.00 tps or a sensor for under 100 i will go that route first
so since the fluid change the symptoms have changed a bit instead of a hard shift and a notable jump in rmps. there is now a hesitation and a slight jump in rmps nothing like the way it was shifting but still not right so I want to know if anyone on here is familiar with transmission repair and / or diagnosis to give me an insight as to how i should approach this issue if the transmission is definately on its way out I know where i can get a rebuild for under a grand and have it installed for about 500 i will supply them with the dw1 to make certain it is genuine honda trans fluid as I do know also with the hondas if you use anything BUT genuine honda tranny fluid within moneths you are going to have to replace the transmission that is a known fact now with most honda owners. and so far it is the only transmission made where if you put anything else in it you are looking at replacing the costly item.. seems that in and of itself is not a very reputable thing to do to a very costly item to make it so if anyone puts any other product in your vehicle you will pay dearly for it.. never heard of any other company that has taken such a bold stance on their manufacturing methods. most often with most products sold you can buy non oem or universal replacement products and still have a working product . Sorry for the commentary but i am slightly annoyed and I used to stand behind Honda due to a long history of them being a very reliable car.. but now i will seriously begin to look the other way and what i am seeing with KIA they have come a long way with their product and I am considering either one of theirs or toyota for my next purchase.. especially if i end up replacing the transmission on this car within the next 6 months.. they arent what they used to be.. and i have learned the hard way they present too many concerns for a disabled person to be driving one and relying on it to get from point A to point B.. any insight and or suggestions to investigate on this tranny related issue please feel free to share i am presently open to all suggestions. thanks in advance. LAD
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ladagosta
03 Honda civic lx, coupe, auto, 1.7 156,000 miles (used to own a 01 civic lx 4 dr auto 1.8, I sold at 185,000 miles 22 months ago now i wonder why)
the other car the tranny went at 120,000, total failure, no warning, no indicator lights, cel, absolutely nothing; other than the cruise control indicated some issue whether it was a red flag to the tranny failure IDK...
well after 45,000 the tranny was indicating that it was going to fail so i researched and decided to sell it and i let the person know that the tranny had been replaced and was wearing down they didnt appear to care they wanted it because it was well maintained. i did history check on the 03 civic and found that the 03 04 and 05 civics seemed to have less "issues" with them specifically the transmissions..so i found this car 133,000 mi for a great price (i should have known that was a red flag right there) any way here are the symptoms as best as I can describe:
cold weather appears to cause the symptoms to become more prominent
start up there had always been a slight shake to the car only in idle, neutral and park when driving there is no shake smooth ride. i am leaning towards a mount going or gone bad somewhere i havent had the time or energy to investigate this to date but now i just may look at it more closely.
at every shift there is a hard shift, notable jump in rmps about 800 to 1000. no noises that i can hear but my hearing is going so idk.. i havent driven it that many miles since this symptom appeared but after the previous car i am now very concerned.
i have heard that it could be a tps issue that not always is it the clutch going bad in automatics or not necessarily eminent failure if you address the issue before mechanical issues become a problem. I heard that it could be a sensor or some other part that is easy to replace and not necessarily going to need a rebuild to fix the problem. I know my way around cars but not when it comes to transmission. the tech who did the trans fluid change test rode it and said it is going to fail. the question remains why is it going to fail? i have also heard that many honda owners never have any warning before the transmissions fail. now i want to know why? are the sensors bad and that is why they end up in failure? cause it seems to me when you are looking at 1 in 6 accords and civics end in failure seems that something is malfunctioning somewhere and most of them never have a warning i have read far too many complaints on honda over the past 5 years to just accept that this is "normal" most cars have a warning at least most other makes give a warning before failing.. so this gives me the HHHMMMM affect.
i had a transmission fluid change (not a flush; only because I do not want the dw1 fully circulating in the system until I know what it will do to the problem and cost of 100 + more for the flush and if it is a failure issue then why bother?) when i got the car the fluid was perfectly bright pink, now before the change it was very paled and there are slight signs of metal wear on the stick, so this is why i decided to rejuvenate the fluid a bit to see how it affects the symptoms.
I am ready and prepare to replace with a re-manufactured transmission, yet only if i absolutely need to if i can replace a 20.00 tps or a sensor for under 100 i will go that route first
so since the fluid change the symptoms have changed a bit instead of a hard shift and a notable jump in rmps. there is now a hesitation and a slight jump in rmps nothing like the way it was shifting but still not right so I want to know if anyone on here is familiar with transmission repair and / or diagnosis to give me an insight as to how i should approach this issue if the transmission is definately on its way out I know where i can get a rebuild for under a grand and have it installed for about 500 i will supply them with the dw1 to make certain it is genuine honda trans fluid as I do know also with the hondas if you use anything BUT genuine honda tranny fluid within moneths you are going to have to replace the transmission that is a known fact now with most honda owners. and so far it is the only transmission made where if you put anything else in it you are looking at replacing the costly item.. seems that in and of itself is not a very reputable thing to do to a very costly item to make it so if anyone puts any other product in your vehicle you will pay dearly for it.. never heard of any other company that has taken such a bold stance on their manufacturing methods. most often with most products sold you can buy non oem or universal replacement products and still have a working product . Sorry for the commentary but i am slightly annoyed and I used to stand behind Honda due to a long history of them being a very reliable car.. but now i will seriously begin to look the other way and what i am seeing with KIA they have come a long way with their product and I am considering either one of theirs or toyota for my next purchase.. especially if i end up replacing the transmission on this car within the next 6 months.. they arent what they used to be.. and i have learned the hard way they present too many concerns for a disabled person to be driving one and relying on it to get from point A to point B.. any insight and or suggestions to investigate on this tranny related issue please feel free to share i am presently open to all suggestions. thanks in advance. LAD
LAD,

I am with you on this. I didn't know Hondas had transmission issues until I got I got one . I now have two and am waiting for this issue to come up. I had the p0740 code come up a month ago. In researching that I discovered that 2001-2004 Civics have a history of problems. I would also like to know the actual defect. I have searched a lot and have found two issues that seem to cause most problems. The torque converter has issues, what exactly it is I don't know. The next issue is a filter assembly that gets clogged. I can't understand the design of a transmission that requires you to do a complete disassembly to change a filter. I which transmission manufacturers would make a spin on external filter if contaminants cause such a problem.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

So I see a post and think



Hmmm......
Let me pull a few sentence fragments out of this and make comments.....


the question remains why is it going to fail?
Because things wear out. It's inevitable.

Were you expecting "forever"?


many honda owners never have any warning before the transmissions fail. now i want to know why?
Most likely really did have symptoms, they either couldn't understand them or chose to ignore them.
You have to figure that 75% or more (RNIPOOMA*) of the drivers on the road are considered appliance users. Gas goes in and turn the key. They have no clue that something is wrong unless there is a warning light or the car will absolutely no longer move under its own power.

If there are 300+ different parts inside a transmission, then there are 300+ different possible ways one could fail. Not all ways must give a warning, there is no law.

(Related?) There are many different possible ways you can die, many of those give no warnings.

cause it seems to me when you are looking at 1 in 6 accords and civics end in failure seems that something is malfunctioning somewhere
Not really. And if you had thoroughly done your research, you should have noticed far more Honda vehicles than just Civics and Accords having trans issues.

It used to be said that Honda knew how to build everything except an automatic transmission. (They have made tremendous improvements in this area over the last decade+ though IMO, but still have room for improvement.)

OTOH it seems like Chrysler still hasn't figured out how to build a transmission yet, I keep hearing stories from friends at the dealer next door about transmissions blowing up before 1000 miles, and overhauls at 30-50k.
I think we have it pretty good in Hondaland.

the tech who did the trans fluid change test rode it and said it is going to fail.
Probably noticed something that really stood out as being wrong.

When one has seen, diagnosed and repaired hundreds of transmission failures, one tends to notice these things.

so since the fluid change the symptoms have changed a bit instead of a hard shift and a notable jump in rmps. there is now a hesitation and a slight jump in rmps nothing like the way it was shifting but still not right so
Isn't that an improvement?

BTW it's RPM not RMP....My spellchecker doesn't like that.


seems that in and of itself is not a very reputable thing to do to a very costly item to make it so if anyone puts any other product in your vehicle you will pay dearly for it.. never heard of any other company that has taken such a bold stance on their manufacturing methods.
Many fluids are now Application Engineered. Get used to it, Honda is NOT the only company that does this. Almost all do nowadays to some extent.
Don't think it is EVER going to go away, either.

Fluid and lubricant technology has improved exponentially over the last couple decades, just like many other things.

A conscientious and well equipped shop that services only common US market makes and models --- and wants to do it RIGHT, might keep in stock 30 different transmission fluids, 20 different coolant formulas, and 25 different engine oils.



-----------------
One COULD pour in whatever fluids they got on sale at Walmart and call it "the right stuff" too.
Some people think they are smarter than the engineers that designed the products and the fluids for those products.
To them, I say "Go for it!"........but make sure you have plenty of money for when/if your cunning plan fails.

If the only tool in your box is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.
------------------




For Honda/Acura alone, we keep on-hand at minimum a supply of
4 different transmission fluids,
6 or more different engine oils,
4 different lubricants for differentials
2 different types of coolant
And that's not all the fluids we have on hand.

(I did not include fluids for Honda Passport/Isuzu Rodeo/Acura SLX)
if you use anything BUT genuine honda tranny fluid within moneths you are going to have to replace the transmission that is a known fact now with most honda owners.
False.

so far it is the only transmission made where if you put anything else in it you are looking at replacing the costly item..
Also false.
Twice.


most often with most products sold you can buy non oem or universal replacement products and still have a working product .
Meh, I'll just say false again for the hell of it.

There is no such thing as "universal fluid", I don't care how many people at the Zone try to sell you that, and I don't care how big the label has it printed on the front.

In general: Even though there might be a lot of non-OE stuff that can and does work (and there is), the question then becomes "How long?" and "How well?"
Too many inferior products on the market with no easy way to identify such ahead of time.
Easy way to ensure OE quality is to stick with OE and OEM.


I can't understand the design of a transmission that requires you to do a complete disassembly to change a filter.
Because it isn't the filter that is the problem, that's only a symptom. You are overlooking the CAUSE of the filter clogging, that means something inside there either wore out or came apart.

The internal filter is not much more than a simple screen. If there is a problem inside that trans that caused the filter to clog up, then that problem is big enough to NEED to split the case open and repair it.

Common design for many manufacturers, has been for decades.



JMHO, YMMV


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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

ok outside of being a grammar **** (really?) There was just part picking on the write up and no valid information as to what i should be looking to do NEXT... you contradict yourself in your parts picking you beg to differ with 3 out of 3 of my comments and yet the last one contradicts the first 2? wth?
..i know it is rpms.. i was tired last night and my hands type faster than my brain can accommodate.
I just dont have it in me to pick it apart after typing and spell check does not identify rpms. as a word anyway unless you use a custom spell check.
on another board for valuable information if the fluid change helped or improved one suggested to continue the fluid change for 2 more times they refer to this as a 3x drain and fill and suggest this over doing a transmission flush. although if you are a shop you would advise against this method.. but most people use this to avoid the cost of the flush and it is as effective as a flush and cheaper. but like i said if you have a shop or work in one you will have some reason for doing a flush opposed to the 3x d n f .

as for the tech,, my ex is a service ASE certified, he will tell me as well that just because a tech tells you something it does not mean that it is always correct some people like to take advantage of people who do not know better and make money off them..

(I.E. say there is a small part cheap,, that will fix the problem. tell the customer the tranny is failing offer them a fair but reasonable price to "steal" car from them (say a grand) figuring it is going to cost too much to fix. they abandon thought of repair and take offer. tech replaces part on car and sells for fair market value (3-4 grand) which is in the thousands making a huge pocket profit.) not saying all techs do this, but i even know some that have done this in the past. It does happen more often than not. People will make money any way they can, especially in this era where money is hard to come by. that aside
maybe I over generalized and I am very critical of Honda but they did get caught tampering with electronic components in their product and paid a huge fine for doing so.

and on my initial post i never once mentioned a filter change and having to remove the transmission to replace a screen.. my concern is that i was told it is failing by a honda tech and that I would be wasting my time to do a fluid change or putting it on a computer since there are no codes being thrown or indicator lights that have been set off no blinking lights.. HAHA.
which I know as a fact the transmission fail without those indicator lights going off it has happen to me in other hondas before this.
NOTE : I have worked on cars since i was 17, even so far as taking a transmission out and installing.. but as far as fixing them FORGET IT
(while I am not up to date on newer tech and have no experience on taking a transmission apart) i am disabled now and I can not do my work myself, and knowing what i know, find it hard to trust others with my cars> HAHA , I have a friend (ASE certified) who lives 1300 miles away who can not help other than go over the do's and dont's and is not that well versed on Honda in particular and is not transmission expert rather he will take them out and send to a shop to service so he cant tell me what he would like to tell me sight unseen, but he knows enough to know that it may be a simple and easy fix, without the need to replace with a rebuild, he will not advise on the steps to take to figure this out since he cant hear or see the car. I will speak with him this weekend though, maybe I will have a better idea on Monday what to do next.

I am not your average car owner,, as you stated most.. yes most dont know anything.. but i have been driving cars and working on them long enough (30 yrs) to know the signs and symptoms of tranny failure and malfunction.. honestly outside of a cruise control issue my 01 civic it had literally no signs it was going until a week before it bit the dust, not even enough time to get an appointment to have it serviced. Checked trans fluid no signs it was going to fail until it did fail no slipping like i said outside of using cruise control.. it would accelerate going up a hill and the rpms would jump to 3 or 4000 rpms and stick there until you tapped on the brake or canceled.. i just thought it to be a malfunctioning CC issue. never a recall on that though.

i am burnt on Honda at this point.. I love their product but it appears they are loosing it in the transmission department older honds could get 300 to 400,000 miles on them provided you did your basic maintenance and well that is no longer the case.. back to the drawing board and I am done with honda at this point.. i am looking the other way as many people who have owned a honda which ended in failure multiple times.. they are really in need to going back to the drawing board, i did love them .. i no longer do..

Originally Posted by ezone
So I see a post and think



Hmmm......
Let me pull a few sentence fragments out of this and make comments.....


Because things wear out. It's inevitable.

Were you expecting "forever"?


Most likely really did have symptoms, they either couldn't understand them or chose to ignore them.
You have to figure that 75% or more (RNIPOOMA*) of the drivers on the road are considered appliance users. Gas goes in and turn the key. They have no clue that something is wrong unless there is a warning light or the car will absolutely no longer move under its own power.

If there are 300+ different parts inside a transmission, then there are 300+ different possible ways one could fail. Not all ways must give a warning, there is no law.

(Related?) There are many different possible ways you can die, many of those give no warnings.

Not really. And if you had thoroughly done your research, you should have noticed far more Honda vehicles than just Civics and Accords having trans issues.

It used to be said that Honda knew how to build everything except an automatic transmission. (They have made tremendous improvements in this area over the last decade+ though IMO, but still have room for improvement.)

OTOH it seems like Chrysler still hasn't figured out how to build a transmission yet, I keep hearing stories from friends at the dealer next door about transmissions blowing up before 1000 miles, and overhauls at 30-50k.
I think we have it pretty good in Hondaland.

Probably noticed something that really stood out as being wrong.

When one has seen, diagnosed and repaired hundreds of transmission failures, one tends to notice these things.

Isn't that an improvement?

BTW it's RPM not RMP....My spellchecker doesn't like that.


Many fluids are now Application Engineered. Get used to it, Honda is NOT the only company that does this. Almost all do nowadays to some extent.
Don't think it is EVER going to go away, either.

Fluid and lubricant technology has improved exponentially over the last couple decades, just like many other things.

A conscientious and well equipped shop that services only common US market makes and models --- and wants to do it RIGHT, might keep in stock 30 different transmission fluids, 20 different coolant formulas, and 25 different engine oils.



-----------------
One COULD pour in whatever fluids they got on sale at Walmart and call it "the right stuff" too.
Some people think they are smarter than the engineers that designed the products and the fluids for those products.
To them, I say "Go for it!"........but make sure you have plenty of money for when/if your cunning plan fails.

If the only tool in your box is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.
------------------




For Honda/Acura alone, we keep on-hand at minimum a supply of
4 different transmission fluids,
6 or more different engine oils,
4 different lubricants for differentials
2 different types of coolant
And that's not all the fluids we have on hand.

(I did not include fluids for Honda Passport/Isuzu Rodeo/Acura SLX)
False.

Also false.
Twice.


Meh, I'll just say false again for the hell of it.

There is no such thing as "universal fluid", I don't care how many people at the Zone try to sell you that, and I don't care how big the label has it printed on the front.

In general: Even though there might be a lot of non-OE stuff that can and does work (and there is), the question then becomes "How long?" and "How well?"
Too many inferior products on the market with no easy way to identify such ahead of time.
Easy way to ensure OE quality is to stick with OE and OEM.


Because it isn't the filter that is the problem, that's only a symptom. You are overlooking the CAUSE of the filter clogging, that means something inside there either wore out or came apart.

The internal filter is not much more than a simple screen. If there is a problem inside that trans that caused the filter to clog up, then that problem is big enough to NEED to split the case open and repair it.

Common design for many manufacturers, has been for decades.



JMHO, YMMV


*random number I pulled out of my ***

Last edited by ladagosta; Nov 30, 2013 at 01:04 PM.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by Scout1
LAD,

I am with you on this. I didn't know Hondas had transmission issues until I got I got one . I now have two and am waiting for this issue to come up. I had the p0740 code come up a month ago. In researching that I discovered that 2001-2004 Civics have a history of problems. I would also like to know the actual defect. I have searched a lot and have found two issues that seem to cause most problems. The torque converter has issues, what exactly it is I don't know. The next issue is a filter assembly that gets clogged. I can't understand the design of a transmission that requires you to do a complete disassembly to change a filter. I which transmission manufacturers would make a spin on external filter if contaminants cause such a problem.
Scout1,,
years ago all cars had a transmission pan.. but since the side mounted engines (japan merge with american cars ).. always been with imports as they originated the side mounted engines in cars.. no longer do transmissions have a tranny pan.. so anytime you need to do a filter or screen change you have to remove the entire trans to get at them. as far as what I am understanding the sensor for the torque converter is the issue. although it may turn out to be an o ring on the converter I have read a number of techs bitching about both issues in this gen.. i am still trying to find out if this gen has a tps on it or not.. a tranny specialist had a write up on this being the initial cause for failing tranny's so i am curious as to whether i may be able to avoid spending money to have a rebuild put in mine or may be able to save it with an under 50 part.. but yes i am steering clear of honda from here in... screw me once shame on you screw me twice shame on me and no one gets a third crack at it.. ever .. i have learned my lesson good and hard and no 3rd chances.. i take care of my cars I want them to take care of me.. LOL
Oh BTW my mother owns a 99 accord and she is having symptoms that either indicate the throttle body or transmission.. I wont hold my breath on it ending up being the transmission either way not cheap to resolve.. i will clean out the throttle body and hope that resolves. as for replacing it .. haha still cheaper than a transmission but no guaranty that it will FIX the issue as i read most have to replace transmission after throttle body work being done.. so may just jump to the FIX after a cleaning doesnt help on this issue.. too many issues .. they at one time had a really great product.. really great had everyone wanting to own one.. HAHA NO MORE THE CASE..

Last edited by ladagosta; Nov 30, 2013 at 12:49 PM.
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

woah, calm down, ladagosta.
ezone does know what he talking about, he's a mechanic by profession. He have that sarcasm, but he can give pointers, unless the part of the car is gone.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

ok outside of being a grammar **** (really?)
Look at your post again. Maybe you can see what I saw.


You may have been asleep.... I just woke up.
There was just part picking on the write up and no valid information as to what i should be looking to do NEXT...
What do you want me to tell you? It needs a new transmission? Sure, I can do that from here.

My reply initially started with trying to address a couple of misconceptions in your post....but it kinda snowballed.


if the fluid change helped or improved one suggested to continue the fluid change for 2 more times they refer to this as a 3x drain and fill
Yep. If once improved the feel some, then it may be worth going all the way. Your choice. But I'm not going to hold my breath if it has already started flaring on shifts, I think the end may be near.

and suggest this over doing a transmission flush. although if you are a shop you would advise against this method.. but most people use this to avoid the cost of the flush and it is as effective as a flush and cheaper. but like i said if you have a shop or work in one you will have some reason for doing a flush opposed to the 3x d n f .
I am a dealer tech, we do NOT use a machine to flush in our shop. Multiple D&F is what we do in our shop if a flush is needed or wanted, as per the service info from the manufacturer.

Other shops and dealers may do things differently.

as for the tech,, my ex is a service ASE certified, he will tell me as well that just because a tech tells you something it does not mean that it is always correct some people like to take advantage of people who do not know better and make money off them..
I'm sure he would also tell you 'once you find a tech you trust, stick with that person'.

BTW I'm not making any money off of anyone that comes to this forum.

not saying all techs do this, but i even know some that have done this in the past. It does happen more often than not. People will make money any way they can,
This sounds like an integrity issue.
Management problems. All problems are management problems.'


Sometimes ignorance is indistinguishable from malice.

maybe I over generalized and I am very critical of Honda but they did get caught tampering with electronic components in their product and paid a huge fine for doing so.
Is Honda the only one?
This really doesn't have anything to do with the trans problem at hand, right?


and on my initial post i never once mentioned a filter change and having to remove the transmission to replace a screen..
You did not, but the first reply did.
I just didn't multiquote.
I occasionally write some of my answers for anyone else that might happen to read them, not just a personal reply to an OP.

my concern is that i was told it is failing by a honda tech and that I would be wasting my time to do a fluid change or putting it on a computer since there are no codes being thrown or indicator lights that have been set off no blinking lights.. HAHA.
which I know as a fact the transmission fail without those indicator lights going off it has happen to me in other hondas before this.
So you agree? Sounds like it.

Maybe he was trying to save you the $100 case of fluid plus labor.
Sounds honest to me.

but as far as fixing them
FYI the majority of Honda dealers only replace, few actually rebuild "in-house". Honda does not automatically send dealers any special tools for automatic transmission overhauls.

As far as diagnosing one, all we (in the dealer shop) really have to do is figure out if a symptom is caused by an internal problem or not, and proceed accordingly.


he will not advise on the steps to take to figure this out since he cant hear or see the car.
Same here, but I can sit in the recliner and guess with the best of them!


it had literally no signs it was going until a week before it bit the dust,
I hate to say it, but that was some advance warning. Not much, I'll grant you that. I hear that same thing from others about some of Hondas trans failures.

I have heard there are a few people here on this forum that have the RPM flare between gears 2-3 and keep on driving anyway.

HTH
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ladagosta
years ago all cars had a transmission pan.. but since the side mounted engines (japan merge with american cars ).. always been with imports as they originated the side mounted engines in cars.. no longer do transmissions have a tranny pan.. so anytime you need to do a filter or screen change you have to remove the entire trans to get at them.
Mazda used to have transmissions that had a real pan on the bottom, although the filter used was only a screen. If there was a problem big enough to clog up that screen, the problem was big enough to pull the trans to fix the root cause.

Their first FWD auto trans with no bottom pan was a FORD CD4E transmission. 1994 626/MX6 2.0L A/T.

That's right, FORD with their better ideas.


as far as what I am understanding the sensor for the torque converter is the issue. although it may turn out to be an o ring on the converter I have read a number of techs bitching about both issues in this gen..
Find the service bulletins that address these concerns, see if they actually apply to your particular car/trans.
Converter was for certain 01 models only, limited to a certain VIN range.

But both of those were pretty much limited to causing P0740/P0741 codes.

i am still trying to find out if this gen has a tps on it or not..
Throttle Position Sensor, yes they all use one..
Honda makes you buy a complete throttle body to get one.

a tranny specialist had a write up on this being the initial cause for failing tranny's so i am curious as to whether i may be able to avoid spending money to have a rebuild put in mine or may be able to save it with an under 50 part..
If the damage is already done, you can't undo it. You might be able to help the next one though.


FWIW, the TPS was a common problem on some of the products when I was with Mazda.
Not a common issue with Hondas from what I have seen over the last 10+ years, but certainly worth looking into it.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by Scout1
LAD,

I am with you on this. I didn't know Hondas had transmission issues until I got I got one . I now have two and am waiting for this issue to come up. I had the p0740 code come up a month ago. In researching that I discovered that 2001-2004 Civics have a history of problems. I would also like to know the actual defect. I have searched a lot and have found two issues that seem to cause most problems. The torque converter has issues, what exactly it is I don't know. The next issue is a filter assembly that gets clogged. I can't understand the design of a transmission that requires you to do a complete disassembly to change a filter. I which transmission manufacturers would make a spin on external filter if contaminants cause such a problem.
here ya go Scout1..
found it .. and it seems the Oring is the primary reason for FAILURE>> haha https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...nsmission.html
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

take a look here:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...stigation.html

woops... you already found it...
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ezone

OTOH it seems like Chrysler still hasn't figured out how to build a transmission yet, I keep hearing stories from friends at the dealer next door about transmissions blowing up before 1000 miles, and overhauls at 30-50k.
I think we have it pretty good in Hondaland.
about a month ago, a friend of mine bought a brand new dodge dart, the manual tranny blew up on the 4 hour drive home from the dealership where he picked it up,

its covered under warranty of course but what a nightmare for him, they wouldnt even replace the entire transmission, they repaired it and reinstalled it which took them about 3 weeks, he says it still makes weird noises, no surprise to me

i have an 05 civic with 165,000 miles, original tranny still shifts like new, and i have only ever done one drain and fill, knock on wood

Last edited by mikey1; Nov 30, 2013 at 05:55 PM.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Ezone,

I do value your opinion and all your help. I was just joining in the conversation. I think manufacturers should always strive to improve their products if they see a trend that shows they have an issue. This was not a slam at Honda, I believe all manufacturers should always strive for a better product. I always thought Ford Taurus were good cars and bought my son one for his first car. Found out they have transmission issues also. Turns out it all points to a simple O-ring that requires a complete tear down to get to. At that point you may as well rebuild since you have it apart anyway.

This is just my opinion and I am saying it about all manufacturers. Why have so many different transmissions that require so many different special fluids? Get two or three that work well and stick with them. Basically standardize a little.

It seems that the Honda's have weak 2nd, and third clutch plates. Yes they probably get the most torque on them but make them a little better. I still have an issue with a filter that can't be accessed easily. Even Honda recommends an external filter be installed ( probably too late for my car) even though the fluid has been changed regularly.

Again I just meant to join in a general conversation and did not mean to offend anyone. I enjoy fixing things but I also like to find out why they broke in the first place. I will try and repair almost anything but I don't really have the time and experience to go inside a transmission so I will leave that to the pros.

Ed
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Old Nov 30, 2013
  #13  
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by mikey1
i have an 05 civic with 165,000 miles, original tranny still shifts like new, and i have only ever done one drain and fill, knock on wood
Not really. They fixed the main tranny issues by 05, but I'm sure you knew that already.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

And to the OP, you're just another P.S. in this world. If you're so smart and savvy on car mechanics, why even post here? You don't want to hear the truth. You just want to make P.S. statements about Honda engineers not doing the job you think they should be doing....because you could do it so much better?

Just go buy a different make of vehicle so exceptional technicians like ezone don't have to waste their time talking to P.S.'s like you.

GTFO and go to another civic forum where somebody might give a crap about your P.S. attitude.

Last edited by Matt_75; Nov 30, 2013 at 09:23 PM.
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by Scout1

Again I just meant to join in a general conversation and did not mean to offend anyone.
You sure didn't offend me.....I'm usually the offensive one.
(EDIT: Guess I'm not.....See Matts posts FTW)
Please post whenever you want, that's why the forum is here.

I know I'm all over the place in here most days....Most of the time I think it's help, sometimes maybe not so much LOL.


Man, I had a whole long reply typed out to you, then my laptop battery died and I lost all of it.
Oh well..
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Old Nov 30, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

woah, Matt, don't bite you too...
ladagosta, honestly, don't take this wrong. All that posted here are actually guys that try to help others, no matter how they sound, they do a good job in helping.
Also, ezone did one thing that is way more than me - he read your post and replied accordingly. that does say a lot. (sorry, I did not read the entirety of your post, too long and punctuation makes hard to read... :P)

...
...

(now that i think about, Matt and ezone are always arguing when it comes to head gaskets, but here matt is siding with ezone?!? pffft! or was that Mikey?... sorry, could not miss that )

Moreover, I am usually the bad cop and now trying to be the good cop?!? Does not suit me too well...

Oh, well, kids, let's stop bickering, will you? (I could have done this by PM, but posting here in the open sounded... funnier )
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Old Nov 30, 2013
  #17  
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by Matt_75
And to the OP, you're just another P.S.
?? What's that? Got a link?

Originally Posted by sdaidoji
woah, Matt, don't bite you too...
ladagosta, honestly,

I did not read the entirety of your post, too long and punctuation makes hard to read... :P)
You noticed that too huh?

...Name:  unable-to-process-wall-of-text.jpg
Views: 637
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...
(now that i think about.....

..... pffft! or was that Mikey?... sorry, could not miss that )
I think it was mikey, but pffft that's in the past. LOL

(I could have done this by PM, but posting here in the open sounded... funnier )
Yay, I dragged you down to my level!
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Old Dec 1, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by Matt_75
Not really. They fixed the main tranny issues by 05, but I'm sure you knew that already.
yes i did realize that, just stating my personal experience FWIW
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Old Dec 2, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ezone

If the damage is already done, you can't undo it. You might be able to help the next one though.


FWIW, the TPS was a common problem on some of the products when I was with Mazda.
Not a common issue with Hondas from what I have seen over the last 10+ years, but certainly worth looking into it.
EZone, if you did read the link i posted and someone else posted the same link it was a mechanic who had the resources to crack a trans open after attempting to externally repair or fix the issue.. once inside he narrowed it down to not being a worn clutch as most would suspect that is causing the car to sit dead in the pond rather it is the screen mesh is too fine and clogs up the works preventing pressure to engage the clutch.. makes sense to me and I know for a fact neither my green 01 civic had burnt fluid nor does my present one have burnt fluid and I have when i was younger smelt burnt tranny fluid .. very hard to mistake the smell. and color wise neither of them had dark fluid rather mine is very pale presently.. only have noticeable shift issues in the cold.. bet when it warms up the shifting will go back to normal.. LOL any way I am sitting and thinking on this for a week or two and will make my decision based on facts once I pull all of them together.. i still think the screen is clogged and once it is free of fibers .. my baby will shift again without hesitation .. just make too much sense to me.. and after being through this before and that entire thing not making sense.. "wrencher" really put my mind to rest and answered all the unanswered questions I have been wracking my brain over the past 6 years
.. especially when i constantly hear people having failed honda transmissions, honestly I would answer all your comments but honestly I am far too tired to.. and there were a few i got a chuckle out of but as I said just too exhausted to concern myself with a response.. but thanks for the honesty.. and I have never had to rely on anyone to do my auto work.. I have managed fine for the past 20 years on my own for the most part and never had an issue. I am not able to do my own work anymore and NOW I am running into problems all around.. it does not help to know what i know. when i dont agree always with those telling me what they feel needs to be done.. you have no idea where i live and who lives out here.. it is not a good place for reliable help.. in any field let alone automotive.. sorry to say I cant wait to leave next fall.. question is will i make it out of here if i still need to rely on the people out here to get my car running well enough to leave and drive 2200 miles to my destination.. LOL
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Old Dec 2, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by mikey1
i have an 05 civic with 165,000 miles, original tranny still shifts like new, and i have only ever done one drain and fill, knock on wood
what transmission fluid do you use in your 05 civic ?
just curious ,,,

mine being an 03 just now biting .. so give yours 2 more years,, but my miles are less than yours.
I dont know if there ever was a tranny flush done on mine I presumed there was since the color was so bright pink when i bought it 2 years ago, the book was never filled out but the guy i bought it off of did spend money on his car i know that much. just dont know the particulars..

I know my mother and father kept track of the service on their computers more recently. before the computers came into play they kept the repair slips in the file cabinet and kept track that way, same as I do .. we never use the service books they give when buying the cars.. go to our file cabinet and there is the life time records all in one place.
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Old Dec 2, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ladagosta
EZone, if you did read the link i posted
Yes, and I also read it when it was originally posted last year.








I'm not going to reply to anything technical here, but will reply to this part:
you have no idea where i live
Easy enough to Google your name and handle.

Near Kmart plaza on West Front St. (trulia blog1/10/13)
Phone number (myspace)



Your turn?
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Old Dec 2, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ladagosta
what transmission fluid do you use in your 05 civic ?
just curious ,,,

mine being an 03 just now biting .. so give yours 2 more years,, but my miles are less than yours.
He has the same transmission as you do. The difference is his has the new style filter, that you say is probably clogging up in yours. I believe Honda start changing them in the 04 models. It's almost double the size of the original filters.
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Old Dec 2, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by ladagosta
what transmission fluid do you use in your 05 civic ?
just curious ,,,
when i did the drain and fill i used honda oem of course,

although i have to admit in a pinch one time i used a bit of "mobil super atf" to top it up (out of town and no honda dealer in sight) only about 100ml or so, which was about 50,000 miles ago and before the drain and fill, so i guess it couldn't have hurt anything,

i am in no way recommending or endorsing aftermarket fluids, honda oem should always be used,
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Old Dec 6, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Wow, what an interesting thread. Maybe I can get it back on track a little (instead of starting a new thread of my own). The stats:

2003 Civic LX Sedan, Auto, 1.7L non-Hybrid, 165K miles

Cold days, cold tranny, tranny wants to be slow to shift and revs going from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 (worse going from 2 to 3). Once the car warms up to normal op temp, symptoms go away.

I just replaced the tranny fluid 3 weeks ago. Old fluid was brown and the plug had a decent amount of "gunk" on it. Filled with 3 qts OEM Honda fluid (got it from a Honda tech).

So, if you had to guess, is it time to replace the tranny? If so, what's a good price for a rebuilt tranny?

By the way, I bought this car in March to replace my 1990 CRX (stupid me, but the wife wanted a 4-dr car in addition to our van). It had a 1-year old ZC swap with a new clutch and flywheel. Such a nice car.

PS - We also have a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan, and the comments above are correct. The tranny on this vehicle SUCKS!
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Old Dec 7, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by crxmanpat
So, if you had to guess, is it time to replace the tranny? If so, what's a good price for a rebuilt tranny?
no telling how long it will last, it could last another 165k.....i would just keep driving it till it dies then make a decision
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Old Dec 7, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

Originally Posted by crxmanpat
So, if you had to guess, is it time to replace the tranny? If so, what's a good price for a rebuilt tranny?
Up to you.
Like mikey said, you can try driving it until it won't go any further.....but I'd say to keep at least $3000 accessible for when it does let go completely. That should cover it.

Sorry, I can't tell you what a rebuilt trans is really gonna cost.

PS - We also have a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan, and the comments above are correct. The tranny on this vehicle SUCKS!
And those are apparently a tremendous improvement over previous generations.
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Old Dec 9, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

So after I made my post above, I went back and read through wrencher's sticky post regarding the blocked screen. I'm wondering if my situation is similar. These symptoms did not start until immediately after I change the tranny fluid a few weeks ago. Prior to that, I had absolutely no indications of any issues with the tranny.

Over the weekend, I've noticed the symptoms gradually diminishing. I wonder if maybe the blockage is now slowly correcting itself with the flow of fresh fluid. Like it got stirred up when I changed the fluid, and now it's settling again.

If the tranny does go, I have a family member that has been a Honda certified mech for several years. He helped me do the ZC swap in the CRX last year, and I'm sure he could help me either rebuild my tranny, or get me a good deal on a rebuilt and help me install it.
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Old Dec 9, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

If you really want to get into it, there are several more screens that can cause problems as they become restricted. Most of the solenoids have individual screens too. Random GIS examples:




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Old Dec 10, 2013
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Re: transmission issue here we go again ut oh

So since yesterday afternoon, I have had absolutely no symptoms whatsoever like I was seeing right after changing the tranny fluid 3 weeks ago. Maybe when I added the new fluid, it stirred up a little "gunk" which made it to the pickup screen, but has since settled again?

Anyway, for now I'll continue driving as normal, and will change the tranny fluid every 6 months or so.
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