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I have a 2003 Civic LX 185,000 miles. Runs very well, 40 mpg, no other problem but using a quart of oil every 350-400 miles. Not a drop of oil on garage floor, no smoke. Compression 230 except for #2 which is 160. When up on lift did not show oil on bottom of car. I was told this car does not have a PVC but I checked the air cleaner and no oil there either. What's going on?

Thanks

John

 
Rep Power: 517

It DOES have PCV.
It's just not so obvious, it's not out in front of God and everybody on this engine.


Figure out the low compression first. May or may not have anything to do with the oil consumption, so figure that out first.

At 185k, I'd expect it to be time for a ring job, depending on the history and care.

Smoke tells the story, but a cat can hide a lot of smoke.

Plugs can tell a story too.

 
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I would reccomend pullng your piston from cylinder 2 if your compression is down there is a possibility your piston rings are fried in cylinder two and the oil rather than lubricating is burning i would start there myself personally.

 
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Thanks for responses. I am definitely not a mechanic and assume having the piston checked or a ring job are lots of money for an old car. What happens if I just keep driving it?

 
Rep Power: 517

How did you get a compression check done?
Can't that person figure out WHY it has a weak cylinder?
Might be as simple as adjusting the valves.
Or it might not be that simple.

You don't just go and "check" things like that.

One determines that is the most likely cause beforehand (smoke diagnosis+other factors), and then you must decide to commit to it---take the plunge and do the work.
No, it isn't cheap unless you can DIY. Nothing ever is.

If the car needed a valve job to fix the low compression and you could commit to doing that job, the time to do the piston rings is while the cylinder head is off (the head must be removed to do the rings). It's only a bit more extra work once the head is off.

This guy did DIY his own rings in an older car: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...t-exhaust.html

That's not very old to some of us. Money is subjective.
You would have to do the math for each possible choice of repair and make your own decisions about it.
It is usually cheaper to drop in a used, low mileage engine than it is to have one overhauled. www.car-part.com

It won't heal itself.

 
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The mechanic who checked the compression said it might be the rings. I guess I'm reluctant to put a bunch of money in an old beat up car. I realize it won't heal itself but is it just going to stop on me if i elect to buy oil instead of repairing? Is there anything, short of a ring job, I can do to slow down the oil use- I have done some online research and there are oil additives and recommendations for a heavier grade of oil- I live in frigid Maine so heavier oil could be a problem.

 
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There should be no "might be" about it.
The mechanic should be doing a cylinder leakdown test to determine exactly where the compression loss is going.
When customers PAY for this sort of work, I am expected to have reasonably solid answers, not wildass guesses. I expect nothing less from anyone else.




IMO The engine has to be pretty far gone to have compression lost due to rings.
I'd expect it to more likely be valve leakage than rings.
Could be as simple as needing a valve adjustment, maybe not.
Ignore tight valves too long, and it definitely will need a valve job.

But rings are probably still the cause of the oil consumption.
The oil control rings, specifically.
They have no effect on compression readings. They could be completely missing and compression checks can still look great.



Nothing other than a ring job would give perfect, immediate results.
Go read the entire thread I linked earlier. Some possibly easier answers were in that thread, but you have to find them.

Another thing to do is to switch to a better quality oil and hope it can slowly clean carbon out of the ring lands of the pistons (carbon buildup is usually what causes the oil rings to stick in their grooves).




"Heavier" oil can help or hurt. You can't tell which. Some engines respond as you would expect, some don't.
Example: 10w30 is some of the lowest quality, and the cheapest to make. Therefore it generates the highest profit and is pushed the hardest on the consumers.
5w20 and 0w20 use better base stocks to start with.
I personally favor "thinner" oil of higher quality, for multiple reasons.

IMHO
Look for and use 5w20 oil with specs of:
ILSAC GF-5
ACEA A1/B1
API SN (or higher)

Much of the Mobil-1 5w20 meets these specs.
So do many/most of the oils bearing the DEXOS-1 logo. Read the labels though.

May take a looooong time to have any effect though.
If it is even caused by the rings in the first place.

I have been doing this with my GF's Saturn, it has taken 30k+ to slow down the oil use. It was using a quart in 500 miles, now it has gone as far as 1500 -2000 miles per quart. But it varies a lot, and I still have to check it very regularly.


HTH

 
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Thanks ezone. I really appreciate you taking the time for a detailed answer. I cannot find the earlier link you refer to - everything I click takes me to a Jaguar ad. I think I will try your better quality oil suggestion. My question is am I going to have the car just stop on me - can i try your suggestion without breaking down beside the road. As I said earlier the car runs very well except for the oil use- good acceleration, mileage, runs cool etc.

Thanks

John

 
Rep Power: 517

Oh. You get the KONTERA ads that pick random words in the text and turn them into hover ads.
I use Firefox + AdBlockPlus. I see no miserable pizzmeoff ads.

Use the search function, search for New valve job and head gasket installed by texas-longhorn

Link: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...t-exhaust.html

Link to specific post: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...ml#post4623711

The text of that post and a few that follow it:
Possible cheaper solution to try before going to a lot of trouble:

Pull all 4 plugs and fill the cylinders with GMs "Top Engine Cleaner" (alternative: Seafoam). Let it sit several hours or overnight. Rock the crankshaft (pulley bolt) back and forth just a little bit with a ratchet to work the fluid into the ring areas and soak them, repeat every hour or so if possible. refill cylinders as they lose the fluid.
This is an attempt to soak and soften the carbon buildup that typically causes the rings to stick in their grooves.
After the extended soakings, cover the engine with a large towel to catch the liquid and spin the engine over BEFORE reinstalling the spark plugs so you don't bend any rods. Then change the oil since this will get into the crankcase and the Top Engine Cleaner is seriously strong crap. (Do NOT stick your nose in it!)

For more info about this procedure and method, google search for Northstar engine oil consumption problems and fixes. They have had this problem (among many others) for several years, and this was an official GM approved procedure.


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Hopefully, the soaking procedures can make the consumption more tolerable and less noticeable.

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I would refill any cylinders that have lost the seafoam, just to attempt to keep the rings soaking in it (even though the rings in question are at the bottom of the set and are the ones that let the liquid pass).....

But remember:

All that liquid that is disappearing from the cylinders right now is going past the rings, into the crankcase and the oil.
Yes on the hard runs and redline to blow out carbon, BUT do not attempt it until the oil has been changed.
I would consider the seafoam to be a contaminant in the oil, I would want fresh oil before running it hard.




If it is a valve problem causing the low compression, it will only get worse if ignored. It would eventually become a completely dead cylinder is it degrades.
If you run out of oil, then I'd expect the engine to cease to run and become a large paperweight. If you keep oil in it, I'd expect it to continue to run.






But I can't predict the future.
HTH

 
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Thanks once again for all your time and for the links and patience with a non mechanical person- I will not be doing anything major mechanically- beyond my skills ( I did do my own tune ups back when engines had points) but will study the other material and try something I can manage.

 
Rep Power: 187

I would just keep on driving it until it fails emissions or the issue gets worse. Just keep watch of oil consumption so you know how often you need to check the oil level.
For my car changing from valvoline 5w30 to chevron supreme 10w30 reduced oil consumption from ~1 quart per 2,300 miles to ~1 quart per 3,750 miles but like ezone said it may or may not help. If I remember right oil consumption was reduced gradually it wasn't an immediate fix. So if you want to save money, I'd just keep driving it since it's operating fine.

 
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Thanks for your response danwat12345

I appreciate it. That's two suggestions for a better grade of oil.

 
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More information - I had it checked yesterday and the results were;

plugs oil soaked
Compression- cyl #1- 230
cyl #2 -225
cyl #3 - 225
cyl #4 - 215

They say "all high , likely do to accumulated/built up partially burned oil occupying otherwise empty space"

pcv not really a valve (?) but operating correctly -

He thought engine probably needs to be rebuilt. His boss thought was probably valve guide seals and quoted a price of $ 500- ( if unforseen problems) 700 to replace them.


Are these conclusions reasonable? I don't think it's worth rebuilding the engine but the valve seals might be worth doing if that will solve my problem.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

 
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Just reread some of the thread....

I kinda realized too late that you chimed in in the middle of a thread, and it looks like I didn't realize you were not the OP when I replied the first couple of times....

So your car has decent compression but a lot of oil consumption?
What year is your car? What engine?


Can you explain this or post pics of what exactly is "oil soaked"?

These numbers wouldn't worry me.

A compression test cannot evaluate the oil control rings. You can still have great test numbers even if the oil rings were missing completely.

I still think you will be looking at a ring job to stop oil consumption.

 
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I know this is an old thread but hopefully youll get an email about this reply to your post.

Im curious if you ever found out what the problem was...i have the same issue minus the compression issue. My car is also a 2003 with 180k.