supersnake83

Hello everyone,

I hope you can help.

I did search this forum, google, etc. and I found some articles that might hint to the same problem I am experiencing, but I am not sure, hence this post.

Here is what I am experiencing with my 05 Civic LX Sedan, auto transmission, that just hit 106000 miles.

If I am driving, as soon as my car hits 20/21mph (or when it feels like my car shifts into 3rd gear), I hear a rumble sound coming from the engine/transmission. The car doesn't feel any different, just sounds different.

Additional info:

• Rumble sound does not happen if in neutral and rev'd to a certain rpm
• It can start at various rpms while driving (once I hit 20mph)
• I tried driving in D3 and experience the same thing
• Sound is mostly constant (it only gets louder when the car gets louder as driving, but the sound itself does not get louder just because I accelerate faster)
• Once sound starts, it happens when accelerating, decelerating or when coasting, but goes away once the car gets below 20mph
• Car has relatively new tires (have about 7000 miles on them)
• Oil and transmission fluid are at proper levels
• No other maintenance/changes were done to the care recently (other than new tires about 7 months ago)
• The problem started last week
• Suspension components are all in tact

I am going to do a oil and transmissions fluid change (and at most recommendations I found on this and other forums to flush the transmission fluid twice).

Any suggestions/ideas about what the problem might be? The car still drives normally, shifts normally and feel normal, just sounds abnormal based on the description above.

Thanks in advance.

ezone

Wheel bearing.





Go to a speed where it makes plenty of noise.

Put trans in neutral: Still making noise?

Swerve side to side within your lane: Noise changes as the car pitches left or right?

supersnake83

No change when switching to neutral. Still makes the same noise.

No change with swerving left or right. I did this very rigorously too.

Also, nothing is rubbing underneath. I checked that too, but forgot to mention.

ezone

Front or rear?

supersnake83

Front.

ezone

Still thinking wheel bearing noise...

I'd then raise the wheels off the ground (use safety stands!) and run it in gear so the wheels spin freely, and sit a helper in the car to hold the gas pedal at a speed where it makes plenty of noise, say 40.

Stethoscope the knuckle or feel the coil spring on each side, the side with the rough bearing noise should become apparent. (Also check carrier bearing on the intermediate shaft-- if equipped.)

At about 20 mph you can stop one wheel at a time, the opposite side will spin faster, and the bearing noise may be further isolated this way.






By the time an average customer brings a car in for a noise, it usually is so bad it sounds like an airplane flying alongside you as you drive.

supersnake83

I don't have a sethescope, but here is what I did. I jacked the car up had someone put the car in D, then got to 40mph. I could hear the sound, but not from either where the wheels are. It sounds like engine or transmission related.

I'll drive the car to speed, put in N, then turn the car off to completely rule out anything related to the wheels that I couldn't see or feel when I was under the car today.

I'll also do a transmission flush in the next week or so after I get enough fluid for a complete flush. Just hoping it is not something mechanical with the transmission. I'll order Honda ATF.

Any other thoughts on what the issue could be?

Brandon@fattysmotorsports

Definitely a wheel bearing man.

supersnake83

Any other way to diagnose?

If you both are correct (which I'll take your advice and believe), is this a DIY repair? or is this a shop repair, because of specialized tools?

I'm mechanically inclined/handy, but don't want to be in over my head.

ezone

A long screwdriver, or dowel, or even a rubber hose held to your ear could suffice.

IIRC you said it doesn't make the noise when you rev the engine sitting still. Probably not engine related.



Elaborate, tell me more about this.

Was this on jackstands, or rolling down the road?
Did it get quiet when you shut the engine off?

If you are still rolling then everything that is turning at that time is suspect. Wheels and tires, brake rotors, bearings, axles, and the differential and countershaft and some of the gears inside the trans.
If it is coming from the trans, it's too late for fluid to help.

Inspect the magnet on the end of the drainplug for solid chunks (fuzz is normal though), and look for non-magnetic chunks that fall out with the fluid draining.

Ok, thinking here.....
See if it can be isolated to the trans while driving...


Drive to 25-30 or so where it's making noise --- and pull the shifter back to 2nd gear (yes the engine will rev up, let it do it, just keep the speed up). Noise still there or not?

In 3rd or Drive gear: If you go to the speed where it's noisy and then accelerate and let off the gas repeatedly, does the noise change as you do this? (If done right, this should be loading and unloading the differential ring and pinion gears)
Try this again in 2nd gear, any change in the noise?

ezone

I use the stethoscope (long screwdriver) method most of the time. Sometimes they are loud enough it's not necessary though.

====================
Thought:
Did you stop one wheel at a time from spinning while you had it in the air? Did the noise change with either wheel stopped?
Most people can DIY getting the knuckle off the car fairly easy, but the bearing is pressed into the knuckle. Might need outside help if you don't have access to a press.

And ideally it should get a wheel alignment when done.

HTH

supersnake83

I didn't do the drive/turn off test until just now.

I just went around the block and did the drive/turn off test. The sound was still there when I turned the car off while rolling.

So, as you are both correct, it sounds like a wheel bearing.

Outside help, as in someone with a press?

I try to do as much work as I can do without going to a shop, but if I have to, I will.

Any idea what a good rate should be to get this replaced at a shop? I am in Philadelphia. Or, is a press something I can rent?

I'm fine going to a shop to get an alignment.

Thanks for all of the help.

ezone

Yes, I don't know, and I don't know.

Half the regular auto shops I'd expect to have a press, and any machine shop I'd expect to have one.
Got any friends that are mechanics?

Cheap enough to buy a cheap one from all the $ you save by DIY? (would still need a pile of adapters and pipes and a collar though LOL)



http://www.harborfreight.com/automot...ess-60604.html

supersnake83

Thanks, but I looked at a DIY video to replace the bearings and I won't be able to do this, even with a press. Plus, I don't have anyplace to store the press. I'll have to investigate shop costs and find out what OEM parts I need (unless it is just a wheel bearing).

Few more questions.

How long can I drive like this before I'll have major problems from this issue? As of now, it feels normal and is just a nuisance sound issue.

Will driving on this cause anything else to get damaged?

Are there any other related components that could cause the same symptoms, or is this just a wheel bearing issue? (asking because a lot of shops usually want to make the diagnosis themselves and I don't want to get jerked around/ripped off).

Is aftermarket parts okay or should I buy OEM? (also asking because some of the shops I have used only want to use the parts they source).

I also need new front brakes and I can do that myself. Should I wait to replace the brakes after I get the bearings replaced, or am I fine with replacing the brakes now, then getting the bearings replaced afterwards?

Thanks again.

ezone

It's a sealed bearing, one piece. Not individual tapered roller bearings.



Can't say. Once they are noisy they tend to go downhill rapidly.
Depends on how bad you let it get. If it gets so bad that the hub wobbles, it can do a lot of damage.

Everything from the trans to the tires.

Have you got it narrowed down to one side or the other?

You don't want to make the wrong call if you are calling the shots, do you? Have a pro double check your diag if there is any doubt.
Risk. Counterfeit big name parts, along with plain ol' cheapo parts from discount stores open on Sunday are common.

I use dealer parts 99% of the time, but I work for one.

Brakes have to come apart (caliper and rotor) to do the bearing on one side, no matter who does it.

supersnake83

I'm confident it is the passenger front, but I was just going to get both replaced to save me a headache later on. I know this would add to the cost, but unless doing both sides is exorbitant, I'd rather do both. Then I'll get an alignment (if required).

I don't plan to wait too long to get this done, but I'll do the brakes afterwards.

I hope this is the issue, given the diagnosis I have done (and what you have helped me with). Please weigh in if I might be on the wrong track.

I'll start calling around tomorrow.

Thanks again.

ezone

That's the side that probably takes more abuse from the roads, potholes, curbs, etc.
At work we just do the side that has the problem, unless the customer wants more. Plus the alignment when necessary.

I think I pretty much described most of the ways I might use to figure out various bearing noises. Mostly I rely on the stethoscope though.

supersnake83

Ok. Great.

Thanks for all of your help.

If I just get the one side done, will I still need to get an alignment?

ezone

Ideally, yes IMO. (I certainly would do it at work.)

The knuckle will be separated from the strut, and there is room for movement there where they bolt together. That can change the camber angle by about .5 degree and throw off toe, accordingly.

If you decide to get the other front bearing replaced later on, it would need to be aligned again too.



If the car had upper and lower control arms (2000 and older), you could probably get away without alignment.

supersnake83

If you can share, what does your shop charge for labor to do the bearing replacement? (Honda shop right)?

Thanks.

ezone

Off the top of my head, I have no idea without a lot more work LOL.

I try to stay away from the numbers. Sometimes it's hard enough just fixing the cars.

Shop labor rates can vary greatly, even within the same town.

Yes, I work for a dealership.

bsmiley

You sound skilled enough to pull the knuckle and take it to a shop. Pep boys charged me $40 shop fee to press in my new bearing. (I bought Raybestos from Amazon).
That was $40 per knuckle, I did both. I also did front struts and ball joints and had it aligned. Struts cost me $100 for two, $65 in shop fees to swap springs and mounts, ball joints cost I forget, alignment was $75. I think between parts, alignment and shop fees it was around $500.

supersnake83

I can, and have all the tools to get the knuckle off, but I never thought about that.

You now have me thinking.

Thanks.

bsmiley

I have more time than money and I enjoy working on things, making them better. Not every mechanic or tech in a shop is equal, but the shop rates don't adjust for that. You can get a highly skilled one or you can have a bozo do a bunch of sloppy work. You pay either way. Roll the dice.

I didn't intend to do more than a wheel bearing and replace a couple of lug studs, but I did the struts because it was worth it to just take care of everything and get it aligned. I also did rotors and pads while I was at it. I doubt I'll have to do anything else on the front end for many years. I put around 10K miles on the car a year.

If you do it yourself and find something else while you're at it, so would a good shop, so you're going to have to deal with it one way or another. Might as well DIY and save some money.
This forum has a lot of DIYs and you seem to have the skills and tools. Many come in here asking questions and don't seem to have the skills, but the info is here, they just need to ask a friend to help and find the courage to take on the work.

supersnake83

I found a family friend that has a shop with the tools that can help me do this for a nominal charge if I bring the nuckle/hub assembly to have the bearing replaced.

Can someone post the torque requirements for all the bolts that I will have to remove, as when I put everything back together, I don't want anything to be too loose.

Thanks.

supersnake83

I forgot to report back, but wanted to say thanks to everyone for your input.

The issue was the passenger front wheel bearing. I took the knuckle off and took it to a family friend who owns a shop and he did the bearing replacement for 60.00 I put everything back together and it was quiet as usual upon the first drive when I got it to speed where I noticed the problem before.

I found all the torque specs from this thread: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...necessary.html

Thanks again.