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Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by Millsy088
Okay so in the end this is the conclusion we came to: at some point, probably close to when the car was sold to me, the head gasket blew and warped the head, explaining why everything in there was perfect and looked brand new ( no oil colour) and then because of the blown head gasket and warped head, the car spun a bearing, causing the metal glitter, and also explaining why the oil pan leaked as it wasn't resealed better. So overall not great but car should be okay ish for a while. Thanks.
How did you come to that conclusion? Did you check the bearings? I assume the spun bearing(s) were replaced?

As long as there is no serious crankshaft damage and the bearings were replaced, that's pretty much the best case scenario since nothing in the engine should be wearing excessively anymore once the glitter is removed. If one or more of the crank journals have been significantly damaged, expect those bearings to wear rapidly and probably eventually spin again.

If the crankshaft damage is more minor, you might be able to clean it up with some fine grit sandpaper and get by for a while. Not ideal, but I've redneck rebuilt a few engines that way for people who couldn't afford proper rebuilds (myself included at one point) and I've never seen a problem from it so it's worth considering as an option. Certainly much better than doing nothing at all if the crankshaft was damaged.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
How did you come to that conclusion? Did you check the bearings? I assume the spun bearing(s) were replaced?

As long as there is no serious crankshaft damage and the bearings were replaced, that's pretty much the best case scenario since nothing in the engine should be wearing excessively anymore once the glitter is removed. If one or more of the crank journals have been significantly damaged, expect those bearings to wear rapidly and probably eventually spin again.

If the crankshaft damage is more minor, you might be able to clean it up with some fine grit sandpaper and get by for a while. Not ideal, but I've redneck rebuilt a few engines that way for people who couldn't afford proper rebuilds (myself included at one point) and I've never seen a problem from it so it's worth considering as an option. Certainly much better than doing nothing at all if the crankshaft was damaged.
no we haven't checked any bearings, mechanic said it wasn't worth the time, we aren't 100% sure thats what happened, but it would explain the discoloration in the oil pan, (there was brown dried stuff all around the inside even after cleaning, mechanic said that was probably from a blown head gasket and or too long between oil changes), the fact that the head on the engine is practically brand new (suggesting the blown head gasket caused a warped head) the fact that the oil pan began leaking (because it wasn't put back on correctly) and because of the blown head gasket it could have caused something akin to a spun bearing or other serious engine damage, causing the metal glitter in the oil, and because those oil pans are a pain to clean, some of it may have been left over after their cleaning, if it was even cleaned. makes enough sense for me to not worry too much, the moment I can afford to get rid of this car and purchase a newer car, I will. that all being said, if there is more metal glitter in ~ 1000 miles, ill be sure to drive it till it dies and part it out. so overall great first car experience! lol edit: mechanic also said that someone gouged the mating surface on the engine that contacts the gasket. also I re tightened all my oil pan bolts to spec after driving around and they all tightened up apart from 2 on the front side of the transmission side of the engine (if that makes sense?) they wont tighten much at all and just keep spinning and spinning, also after re tightening all bolts apart from the 2 spinning ones, it is still slightly leaking next to those bolts (so directly under where the rear main seal is) and is also leaking from the opposite side, next to the crank pully which might be where Mr mechanic found the gouges in the engine mating surface, I didn't get to see where the gouge/s were as I was too busy cleaning the bastard gasket off of the oil pan. thanks very much for your help, I think ill just go till she blows as it was a cheap car and I almost should have seen it coming haha, although I did get a pre purchase inspection, so I guess things like this are sometimes unavoidable.

Last edited by Millsy088; Feb 8, 2022 at 08:42 AM.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by Millsy088
no we haven't checked any bearings, mechanic said it wasn't worth the time, we aren't 100% sure thats what happened, but it would explain the discoloration in the oil pan, (there was brown dried stuff all around the inside even after cleaning, mechanic said that was probably from a blown head gasket and or too long between oil changes), the fact that the head on the engine is practically brand new (suggesting the blown head gasket caused a warped head) the fact that the oil pan began leaking (because it wasn't put back on correctly) and because of the blown head gasket it could have caused something akin to a spun bearing or other serious engine damage, causing the metal glitter in the oil, and because those oil pans are a pain to clean, some of it may have been left over after their cleaning, if it was even cleaned. makes enough sense for me to not worry too much, the moment I can afford to get rid of this car and purchase a newer car, I will. that all being said, if there is more metal glitter in ~ 1000 miles, ill be sure to drive it till it dies and part it out. so overall great first car experience! lol edit: mechanic also said that someone gouged the mating surface on the engine that contacts the gasket. also I re tightened all my oil pan bolts to spec after driving around and they all tightened up apart from 2 on the front side of the transmission side of the engine (if that makes sense?) they wont tighten much at all and just keep spinning and spinning, also after re tightening all bolts apart from the 2 spinning ones, it is still slightly leaking next to those bolts (so directly under where the rear main seal is) and is also leaking from the opposite side, next to the crank pully which might be where Mr mechanic found the gouges in the engine mating surface, I didn't get to see where the gouge/s were as I was too busy cleaning the bastard gasket off of the oil pan. thanks very much for your help, I think ill just go till she blows as it was a cheap car and I almost should have seen it coming haha, although I did get a pre purchase inspection, so I guess things like this are sometimes unavoidable.
Alright, hopefully it lasts you a while. As long as there aren't any abnormal sounds from the engine there's a good chance it will. Using a heavier oil like an 5W30 or 10W40 instead of 5W20 may help your odds a little by helping cushion any worn bearings and is still totally safe as it is still approved by Honda for the same engine in other markets. I don't imagine cold starts are too much of a concern over there.

If the gouged surfaces are where the oil pan bolts to the block, just coat the damaged areas with silicone. That'll fill in the gouges just fine. Same with the outside of cam/crank seals. Just make sure all surfaces are totally free of oil residue before applying silicone because even the slightest amount of oil will keep the silicone from sealing.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
Alright, hopefully it lasts you a while. As long as there aren't any abnormal sounds from the engine there's a good chance it will. Using a heavier oil like an 5W30 or 10W40 instead of 5W20 may help your odds a little by helping cushion any worn bearings and is still totally safe as it is still approved by Honda for the same engine in other markets. I don't imagine cold starts are too much of a concern over there.

If the gouged surfaces are where the oil pan bolts to the block, just coat the damaged areas with silicone. That'll fill in the gouges just fine. Same with the outside of cam/crank seals. Just make sure all surfaces are totally free of oil residue before applying silicone because even the slightest amount of oil will keep the silicone from sealing.
Yep will do if it keeps causing issues, also funnily enough, 5w30 is the recommended weight for my d17z1 here in Aus, but the manual specifies a pretty large range of weights that should work depending on climate. Is there anything I can do about those 2 bolts spinning? Because I'm fairly certain they're what is causing the leak on that side
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by Millsy088
Yep will do if it keeps causing issues, also funnily enough, 5w30 is the recommended weight for my d17z1 here in Aus, but the manual specifies a pretty large range of weights that should work depending on climate. Is there anything I can do about those 2 bolts spinning? Because I'm fairly certain they're what is causing the leak on that side
Interesting. Here in America, 5W20 is the only approved oil for these engines but in other markets anything from 0W20 to 15W40 is used.

Sounds like the bolts are stripped? If so, you could try using slightly longer bolts. Sometimes a few extra mm can be enough to grab onto some good threads deeper in the hole. The oil pan bolts are M6 X 1.0 if you want to try some longer ones.

If that doesn't work, there are thread inserts like Time-Sert and Helicoil. Basically you drill the hole out to a slightly larger size and screw the sleeve into the hole, then you have new threads. Only issue is some of the oil pan bolts on the trans side aren't very easily accessible, so drilling and tapping those holes with the engine in the car may not be the easiest thing to do depending on which ones stripped.

Remember that the oil pan bolts don't need to be very tight, they only get torqued to around 8 ft lbs if I remember correctly. So as long as you can get them to snug up a little bit it should be fine.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
Interesting. Here in America, 5W20 is the only approved oil for these engines but in other markets anything from 0W20 to 15W40 is used.

Sounds like the bolts are stripped? If so, you could try using slightly longer bolts. Sometimes a few extra mm can be enough to grab onto some good threads deeper in the hole. The oil pan bolts are M6 X 1.0 if you want to try some longer ones.

If that doesn't work, there are thread inserts like Time-Sert and Helicoil. Basically you drill the hole out to a slightly larger size and screw the sleeve into the hole, then you have new threads. Only issue is some of the oil pan bolts on the trans side aren't very easily accessible, so drilling and tapping those holes with the engine in the car may not be the easiest thing to do depending on which ones stripped.

Remember that the oil pan bolts don't need to be very tight, they only get torqued to around 8 ft lbs if I remember correctly. So as long as you can get them to snug up a little bit it should be fine.
Ah my bad, I said bolts, I meant the nuts on the oil pan, because for some reason there's a mix of both. The 2 nuts next to the rear main seal area, on the side towards the front of the car are not coming close to 8ftlbs, the rest have been torqued to 12.1nm (8.9ftlbs) and seem to be doing alright
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by Millsy088
Ah my bad, I said bolts, I meant the nuts on the oil pan, because for some reason there's a mix of both. The 2 nuts next to the rear main seal area, on the side towards the front of the car are not coming close to 8ftlbs, the rest have been torqued to 12.1nm (8.9ftlbs) and seem to be doing alright
Oh so the threaded studs that stick out of the block are stripped? In theory that's an easy fix, they just unscrew and you screw new ones in or use bolts instead. Only issue is depending on which studs are stripped, they may not be particularly easy to get to.

If you can get vice grips on those studs, you should be able to unscrew them no problem. If not, there are specialty stud removal sockets available but I never used them so I don't know how well they work.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
Oh so the threaded studs that stick out of the block are stripped? In theory that's an easy fix, they just unscrew and you screw new ones in or use bolts instead. Only issue is depending on which studs are stripped, they may not be particularly easy to get to.

If you can get vice grips on those studs, you should be able to unscrew them no problem. If not, there are specialty stud removal sockets available but I never used them so I don't know how well they work.
oh okay thats good news, i don't have to remove the oil pan again to do that do i?
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by Millsy088
oh okay thats good news, i don't have to remove the oil pan again to do that do i?
If you are able to unscrew the stripped studs with the oil pan in place you don't, but that seems pretty doubtful to me as little room as there is in that area.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by D17VTECPOWER
If you are able to unscrew the stripped studs with the oil pan in place you don't, but that seems pretty doubtful to me as little room as there is in that area.
ahh well i dont think im gonna bother with changing the pan gasket again, so ill try and find a way.
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Old Feb 8, 2022
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Re: Rear main seal leak? [solved - not seal]

Originally Posted by Millsy088
ahh well i dont think im gonna bother with changing the pan gasket again, so ill try and find a way.
Cool, let us know what you figure out.
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