Rep Power: 100

05 EX automatic

Car has been running excellent, but it began leaking a few months ago. Small leak(s) since the oil level was always full when I checked it. Maybe lost 1/4 quart in 4 months, 3K miles. Probably not worth tearing into it to fix, but I hate fluid leaks of any kind so I thought I'd go after it.

Oil was all over the oil pan, sub-frame, and control arm on the rear driver's side. It was coming from the lower timing cover/crank seal area. Based on my reading, it is the oil pump-to-block o-ring. So....little seal, BIG job.

Got everything dis-assembled in one day. Oil pan and pump are off. I was expecting the o-ring to just crumble in my fingers when I removed it. But no....it was actually still pliable. So I'm not sure if that was the problem.

However, the work I've done is not in vain. There are oil leaks everywhere:

1. Oil pump-to-Block mating surface
2. Cam seal
3. Head gasket (front driver's side)
4. Cylinder head plug

I have a new oil pump o-ring, cam seal, and cylinder head plug. But the head gasket leak will be left as is. I'm not about to replace the damn head gasket at this point. If all this work will get rid of all the oil on the frame and pan I'll be happy. I'll just have to clean the area at the head gasket leak and see how long it takes before I see moisture again. I'm actually surprised that all these leak sources didn't cause more oil loss.

If anyone has any advice or helpful hints about oil pump cleaning and re-assembly, please let me know. Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 223

probably the valve cover and not the head gasket, or it could be from the cam seal leak,

post up some pictures

 
Rep Power: 100

Didn't see any moisture between valve cover gasket and head gasket. I suppose it's possible the leaking from the cam seal dripped all the way down and around toward the head gasket, but I doubt it.

It's easy to see. I'll try to post pics soon...

 
Rep Power: 223

there was someone else on here recently that thought they had a headgasket leaking oil, it was their vtec solenoid,
opposite side of the engine compared to your leak, but same sort of idea.

 
Rep Power: 100

Oh yeah, I heard of that leak too. Not sure where that solenoid is located though. My engine is leaking on the right side of the exhaust manifold if facing the engine bay. It is much below the valve cover gasket.

 
Rep Power: 223

you have an lx? shouldn't have vtec, otherwise look at the back of the valve cover one the transmission side of the engine

google image:

 
Rep Power: 100

It's weird. My car says LX on the back, but it states EX on the title. It has many of the EX options too...VTEC, ABS, aluminum oil pan. Is it because it's Canadian built? Idk

As to the pic you posted, the leak I have is on the opposite corner. I only noticed a small pool of oil on the passenger side of the engine...and it's definitely the cylinder head plug. It's dry everywhere else on that side.

 
Rep Power: 223

someone must have replaced the trunk lid,
In Canada the SI was the only Civic with the vtec engine.

pic was just to show you the location of the solenoid if you didn't know where to find it.

get everything back together, clean everything really well and then take the car for a drive, hopefully it will be easy to determine the origin of the leak

 
Rep Power: 100

Just removed the cam seal tonight. Found several knicks in the bore where the seal rests. I think I may have put two of the small ones there when removing the seal. But they're on the outside of the bore, so they shouldn't cause any leakage.

HOWEVER, I did find a good sized scratch on the camshaft. It is rather long too. It appears that the last person to replace the seal jammed a flat blade screwdriver all the way in there. The scratch is about as long as the thickness of the cam seal, which explains the leaking from that area.


OPTIONS:

1. Install a repair sleeve.
** This may prove difficult since there is very little space to hammer it on (ABS in the way). Not sure I could find the right sleeve either.

2. Apply RTV to the scratch and smooth it out
** Would this work if I smoothed it out really well? Would RTV hold over time? I don't think so

3. Apply JB Weld to the scratch and smooth out.
** This I think would work, but I'd have to be very careful applying it. Then smooth it out and let it dry. Pretty sure it would hold up well.

Any suggestions or comments?

 
Rep Power: 223

I would try to smooth the scratch out with like crocus cloth and see if that's enough for it to stay dry.
Or find a cam at a junkyard that's in good shape

 
Rep Power: 120

The cam seat might be deep enough to install double seals.

 
Rep Power: 100

Thanks for the replies. I'll attempt to look for this "crocus" cloth mentioned. Limited options available here in northern WI. Going to a junkyard won't happen anytime soon.
And I'm unsure what a double seal is....But if it's just two cam seals butted up against one another I know it won't fit.

My plan for the cam repair is to apply a very thin layer of JB Weld, smooth it out nicely, let it dry for a day, and then sand it down smooth with very fine grit sandpaper (maybe that's where the crocus cloth factors in). This is the best option I can think of. Have a new AISIN seal when it's done.

So far I've gotten the oil pump and oil pan installed. This was no easy task...or at least no QUICK task.

I spent a good three hours or so cleaning everything really good. Had to get those sealing surfaces perfectly clean. I installed the new oil seal for the pump and also applied RTV ALL THE WAY AROUND the outside of it. I kept the RTV off the seal itself, but I figured if it was sealed all the way around it also then it wouldn't matter if the O-ring hardened and leaked. The oil still won't leak out of the pump housing area.

The oil pump rotor clearances were well within spec even after 128K miles...that was good to see. The aluminum oil pan is damn sturdy. Having several studs coming down definitely helps to line the pan up properly while the RTV is wet. Some auto makers use bolts all the way around, so trying to line up the holes is very difficult. GO HONDA!

Honestly, oil pump and pan repairs are LONG repairs...if they're done right anyways. It takes so long to clean the sealing surfaces and then have to be on your back while securing the pan with wet RTV on it. One mistake and your back to square one. You put everything back together and WHOOPS! Damn engine still leaks. So I spent all day just doing these two things making sure it's just right. Time will tell if it's successful, but I feel pretty good moving forward.

 
Rep Power: 223

crocus cloth/emery cloth are one and the same

 
Rep Power: 100

^^^ Oh okay. If I can find it up here that would work perfect.

 
Rep Power: 100

Couldn't find the crocus cloth. Found emery cloth, but the finest grit was 240 I think. Much too course. So I just got 320 grit & 400 grit sandpaper. Best I could do. JB Weld I got is the quick setting.

To fill in the scratch, I did the following:

1. Cleaned the end of the camshaft with brake cleaner
2. Taped off the around the scratched area with masking tape. Basically made an outline around the scratch.
3. Applied the JB Weld and smoothed it out with a short flat blade screwdriver.
4. Removed the tape.
5. Let the JB Weld cure for about 5 hours.
6. Taped off the surrounding area again.
7. Sanded the area with 320 grit (didn't take much)
8. Sanded the area with 400 grit (didn't take much)
9. Removed tape
10. Cleaned area again
11. Installed new cam seal

Oil began dripping out the area all of the sudden, so I'm not sure the JB Weld cured properly. But it's better than nothing I hope. When I installed the cam seal I stopped a little before flush (maybe 1/2 mm or so). The hope is that the front inner lip of the seal will rest on an area of the camshaft where there is no scratch. Additionally, I applied RTV sealant all around the outside of the seal and smoothed it out with my finger. I know that shouldn't be necessary, but there were some small gouges in the bore too. Time will tell how it all holds up.

 
Rep Power: 100

Got the new timing belt and tensioner installed. Timing marks all lined up. Have some comments about this.....

When I bought this car 15K miles ago, the dealer told me they replaced the timing belt and water pump. Based on what I saw, I believe them. However, they DID NOT replace the tensioner. Although many think that the tensioner only needs replacement every other timing belt change, I disagree. The tensioner I pulled off appeared to be original (had "Japan" stamped on the seal). It had no tension...none whatsoever. The only thing tensioning the belt was the spring. When I removed the original belt there was a lot of slack between the cam and crank gears. I thought that was normal, but now I know better. The belt is much tighter now with the new tensioner.

I agree that OEM is best, but I've always had good experiences with Gates. So I bought their kit from RockAuto. The belt is good quality and the tensioner looks identical to the original...it even has "Japan" stamped on the seal like the other one.

Since the water pump was replaced already and it wasn't leaking I left it alone. Flushed out the cooling system last year and didn't want to open it up again.

A new lower timing cover is supposed to be coming in tomorrow. Original one was cracked in several places.

Last "hard" part of this job is installing the valve cover with the new gasket. I replaced all the seals/grommets too. I have the cover cleaned already, just need to clean the head surface before installation.

 
Rep Power: 120

You would be hard pressed to find a random “non Honda dealer” that knew enough about that engine to remove the tensioner and reinstall a grenade pin equivalent before reassembly.

 
Rep Power: 100

Got the engine all put back together today. Valve cover was a bit of a nuisance, but it's installed with RTV at the "corners". I went ahead and replaced ALL the valve cover seals since they came with the kit. Replaced the cam plug as well. Put a little RTV on the very edge of it before installation...I think it'll help long term.

Had to prime the oil pump before starting the engine. Sure took a while. Had to crank it about 20-25 seconds before the oil light went out. I thought it would be 4-5 seconds...got nervous for a minute

But afterward, the engine fired right up no problem. I didn't see any obvious leaks anywhere. SO FAR, SO GOOD!
Obviously it'll be a while before I can say for sure all is better. The leaks were always slow. But I'm happy for now that all is well and I can drive my car again

 
Rep Power: 0

I know what you mean. I tried a couple non oem valve cover gaskets and none of them held in place. The only one that has worked and allowed me to install the valve cover easily was the honda one.
Sure sounds like you did a good job!

 
Rep Power: 100

I read that on this forum. Maybe it was you. I think it'd be damn near impossible if the gasket didn't stay in the groove on its own during installation. I used Mahle and it fit pretty well...no problems. Perhaps Mahle is OE equivalent?

The hardest part about installation was getting the spark plug tube seals to fit over each tube. I installed new ones so maybe they were just tight. I had to use a plastic trim remover (basically a plastic flathead screwdriver) to circle between the tube and the inner seal, while pushing down on the valve cover. Took a while....

 
Rep Power: 100

It's been about a year now since I did all this work, so I thought I'd follow up.....

I still have a leak at the lower timing cover/crank seal area. It's just slowly drips from there. It's not a big deal. The oil level is always full when I check it (even after months of driving). But it kinda bothers me that I wasn't able to fix it.

There is a small amount of oil that accumulates in that cavity behind the alternator. But that doesn't really explain the oil dripping from the crank seal area. So idk

However, since the leak is so small I've decided to just ignore it for now. Maybe some years from now I'll have to replace the head gasket and that'll fix it.

 
Rep Power: 225

Are you sure the two leaks aren't related? I don't remember what the cavity behind the alternator looks like but it is possible oil is leaking somewhere behind the timing cover all the way down to the bottom.

 
Rep Power: 100

No, I'm not sure to be honest. The only thing I can think of is a small crack in the block or the new crank seal I installed. The seal installed straight and it's an Aisin brand, which I believe is OEM. I don't recall seeing any scoring in the oil pump cavity where the seal goes. The end of the crankshaft looked good also, as far as I remember.

The rubber on the back of the crank pulley doesn't seal any oil in does it? That's one thing I didn't bother to look at when I re-installed it.

Oh well, I'll just call it a light "rust-proofing"

 
Rep Power: 225

I wouldn't think so. I still would like to think the two are related but without tearing it back apart it's impossible to say.

Can you tell where the leak on this engine was?

 
Rep Power: 100

^^^^^^^^^

Ha! Driver's side perhaps...so hard to tell

Oil really is the best rust-proofer.

 
Rep Power: 225

That is actually the passenger side but you get the point!

 
Rep Power: 100

So I FINALLY found where the leaking is coming from and what is causing it...

I had an intermittent P0420 code the last couple months so I decided to replace some parts on the exhaust. While under the car, I happen to get a good look in the area of the oil leak. And there it was, clear as day. The RTV I had used to seal the oil pump is allowing the oil to seep right through. DAMN!!! I have to do this whole job over again . This sucks.

I distinctly remember debating what RTV to use when I sealed it. I had the tried and true Permatex Ultra Black and then the small tube of FelPro Black silicone RTV that came in the oil pump seal kit. I decided to use the FelPro stuff without knowing how it would perform. Now I know.... .

I plan to replace my head gasket next year, so I'll have to do this job again at that time while everything is taken apart. That's gonna be a big job. But until then, I'll just have to watch the oil level this winter and top off as necessary. The oil level only dropped about 1/2 quart in the last 5K miles, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

 
Rep Power: 100

*** I wanted to clarify a mistake I made in Post #16 ***

EDIT:
There was nothing wrong with the original timing belt tensioner. I had a misunderstanding on the how the tensioner worked (I thought it had an internal spring).
So I basically wasted money replacing a perfectly good OEM timing belt and tensioner