MrDisco99

WELCOME TO PAGE 7!

I realize wings have a certain aesthetic appeal because they imply performance. However, if you know what wings do and why race cars have them then you know the idea of a FWD car having them just seems silly.

I guess it's OK as long as it's not obvious and doesn't induce too much drag. I'd never want one for mine.

Anyway, I've pretty much decided on the sedan. It's roomier, especially in the back, and easier to get in and out of for only $200 more. Yeah the coupe looks nicer on the outside, but that will get old quickly and I'm not looking for something to impress my friends with. Besides, I'll be spending more time inside it anyway.

Now how about we finally let this thread die.

crazydragon

nuff said

HondaLuver

iTrader: (17)

WTF MrDisco99, that wing has no function, it looks nice, have you ever seen it?

MrDisco99

That's exactly my point. I think the way some cars have non-functional body implements just to make them look good is silly. A perfect example is the stock Mustang hood scoop. I hate that thing.

Look at REAL performance cars like Porsches and Ferraris and "prestige" models like the Corvette and S2000. Every line and opening and surface on those cars HAS a purpose. THAT is what makes them beautiful.

So I personally don't care if a Civic has a rear spoiler. Non-functional aesthetic items simply don't impress me.

poor jaysun

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, the rear wing has a function.
With higher speeds and greater weight in the front of the car, you need down force to keep the car smooth (Aerodynamics). It is very evident when I had mine put on and we had to raise the back end 1/2" to accomidate for the down force on acceleration. The increase of 1/2" made a dramatic difference (improvement) on acceleration. Before it felt like a slug, now very smooth. With the rear spoiler 70-80 mph is a nice cruising speed.

poor jaysun

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, off topic.
The sedan (I have one) to me has a better look.

SlammedBlueEM2

iTrader: (2)

Coupe. I like some people don't like the boxy look of the sedan though I've seen a few good lookin ones on this site.

Has it ever crossed anyone's mind that the coupe's taillights represent the "C" from the new Civic emblem? I know it sounds corny but when I first saw the car, that's one of the things I first noticed. I don't think they'd be in a horseshoe shape for nothin.

Drnknmnky13

iTrader: (3)

So you noticed a large diffrence on your front wheel drive car when you put a wing on the back? During acceleration you say? I don't have a wing so I'm not going to call BS fully. But the physics don't add up.

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

Sedan taillights can be sexy...as long as they ain't altezzas, IMO.

Smurf-VTi

On my 2003 Sedan, I love my tails. Way nicer then the previous years, due to the circular accents in the brake lights now.

Anyone who put's tezzas on a 2003 is really wastin the look. Although I wouldn't get tezzas in the first place. OEM baby!

MrDisco99

No offense, but you're imagining it.

Think about that last sentence and what your car is doing when you're cruising (i.e. not accelerating, decelerating, or turning) There are NO FORCES acting on your car in this state except DRAG. Drag is your enemy at speed. The only thing your spoiler does in this situation is give you more of it.

As for acceleration, you WANT your weight to be primarily over the drive wheels to help keep traction since they're the ones that tend to lose it first. The problem with FWD cars in this situation is that weight transfers to the rear during acceleration, so the rear wheels get the traction benefit, even though they're only along for the ride. A rear spoiler does not help this problem, and in fact, only makes it worse.

When you're turning a fast corner, aerodynamics do help to some extent to maintain grip. However, even in this case a rear spoiler doesn't help you. This is because FWD cars, even when they have the entire drivetrain and most of the weight over the front wheels, still have a tendency to understeer because drive wheels always have a tendency to lose traction first. Again, this is a situation where increasing rear downforce doesn't help you, and may even make things worse.

Increasing rear downforce on a FWD vehicle has no benefit because everything happens up front. Rear wheels are the same size as the front to help with stability, braking, and ride comfort. They're NECESSARY for balance. But that's pretty much it.

Master J

damn those acura tails are pretty hot..much better than the civic's over here...anyone know how much or where i could get them..UK ones look aight too..oh i drive a sedan btw..lower insurance and more room for the same car

poor jaysun

iTrader: (1)

Lets set it straight.
If your spoiler is angled correctly it will not cause drag.
Why do race cars have spoilers?
Traction is one thing but if all your weight is over your front end, the rear end is lifting up. NOT GOOD.
Areodynamics with a spoiler level out the back end and keep it from floating around. Hence better cruising speed (especially at higher speeds).
The Honda Tuning magazine about 2 or 3 issues ago talked about displacement changes and how it affected drag times. When I talk about acceleration and the spoiler when I increase my rear displacement and noticed a difference it was evident. You have to try it yourself to know.

poor jaysun

iTrader: (1)

MrDisco99:
You said it ,BALANCE, I just said it differently

MrDisco99

A spoiler will ALWAYS increase drag. Changing the angle just gives you more or less of it. Any time you use aerodynamics to increase downforce you increase drag as well. The more downforce, the more drag, because all you're really doing with a wing is redirecting that aerodynamic drag downward. That's what a wing does.

Racecars have rear spoilers because their drive wheels are in the rear. High-powered cars need help at high speeds keeping those wheels on the ground. Otherwise, they'd be sliding all over the place in the corners. A rear wing increases grip in the rear.

Aerodynamic downforce in racecars is used to better CORNERING performance, not STRAIGHT LINE performance. You sacrifice straight line performance for cornering performance depending on your wing angle. Ever notice how NASCAR racers don't have wings even though they approach speeds of 200mph? Sure, they make wide sweeping left turns, but they don't CORNER. Weight and suspension is enough to give them the downforce balance they need.

In a FWD car, the physics completely change. It's VERY difficult to get the rear wheels to lose traction because all they're doing is getting dragged along. There's almost never a risk of fishtailing a FWD car because the front wheels almost always lose traction first. Thus a rear spoiler is useless.

As for your situation, I seriously doubt you're going at high enough speeds to lift your car up off the ground, especially in a Civic. Even if you were, the wheels you'd need to be worrying about in this case are the front and not the rear. Even with all the weight in front, the drive wheels WILL lose grip first and as such will be the first to lift in a high speed situation. Again, the spoiler isn't helping you here. Sure, you feel an effect. You're feeling an increase in rear downforce and drag which maybe feels "smooth" to you but is only making your engine work harder to overcome it.


Just do yourself a favor and read up on it. Do some research. Find out what those mods are really doing for you (or against you). Don't ask the guy at the shop. He's only going to tell you whatever it takes to buy more parts and time from him. Use the internet (or a library) and find the facts for yourself.

MrDisco99

oops

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

You can get the Acura tails from any Acura dealership in Canada (good luck with the $$$ shipping tho). Also you'd have to get a new trunk lid...más costoso. Good luck trying to trade too - most of the guys in my club get bombarded with requests for their front or rears, and always turn them down.

poor jaysun

iTrader: (1)

Did read up on it and I still disagree

poor jaysun

iTrader: (1)

JUst because it is a FWD doesn't mean ALL the downforce should be at the front.

trashguy

Sedan has a higher CG due to the roof, but basically boh cars are built off the exact same platform......


Matter of preference and style.... they are the same car underneath

xenon

i have a coupe and i feel the coupe is a better choice if your going for the racer look, and if your going raced out the weight makes a big difference.

r0b2186

iTrader: (1)

your choice,
I got a sedan (or Quad-Cab) for a few reasons:

1.ALOT LESS for insurance (I don't even have a record!)
2.same car, 2" higher and really about 50 lbs. heavier
3.More room
4.I got a good price for it
5.You can do most (eventually all) of the same mods with both
6.This might sound stupid,... but i like the sedans taillights betterlease:
(IMO the coupes tails kinda remind me of a focus, no offense)

If I could go back I WOULDN'T change the fact that I got a 4 door, or an LX,... just the fact that I got an automatic.

If I wanted to get a slightly more expensive 2 door car, it would probably be a Tiburon or a Mazda 6 (Just two cars i like, although I'd miss my Honda).

If youre thinking about color, It may be High-Matinence, but in my opinion, "once you go black, you dont go back"

One more thing, no offense to my fellow civicans, but EVERYBODY has a coupe. Some might say it's because they are better, but in truth, only asthetically.

__________

HEBEGEBZ

I have a sedan and I love my car. Everyone is saying how the sedan looks like this car or that car but the coupe reminds me of a Caviler. That ain't cool. My only regret is getting this darn auto. Swap time is going to produce a real sleeper so I am happy.

orion_squall

you can definitely make a sedan nice looking too, however, it is harder. (That is what I find because I got sedan and study a lot on how to make it nicer looking). What you get will be luxury oriented look. Because a lot of aggrasive body kit will just make sedan funny. And with nicely mod sedan maybe you will look like a mature man for ladies. (if those is what you are looking for)

as for coupe, there are way more way to make it nice looking. You can make it like party animal, fast and furious and young. And about ladies, with the coupe you will attract those kind of ladies as well. but with a fast and furious coupe I noticed mature professinoal ladies laugh at it pretty much, so is up to what age and level you think you are in.

orion_squall

by the way, if one can mod the exterior and interior of a sedan like the CIVIC EXCITE 2.0 It will be very very cool. That car style is very luxury and that is the way a sedan should go to.


go to honda thailand to check out civic excite 2.0, that car will jsut gieve all sedan a hope!!

hothondacivic02

iTrader: (1)

tuff choice if i had to buy a vic again i prob take a sedan and make it full JDM since i have a coupe and wish it was JDM compatible but its not they dont even exist in japan . but on the other hand the coupe looks really nice with a oem kit and some wheels .

civicvtec1ps

iTrader: (34)

exact same thought. if i had to buy another 7thgen,. i would get sedan.
i still loved my coupe. no regret either way. great car