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I recently (maybe two months ago) started to use the heal-toe downshifting/braking technique. I'm getting good at it. It's the best way to slow down fast while retaining control of the car (since it's in gear all the time). Plus you have constant braking. You don't have to take your foot off the brake to give the car some gas for rpm matching. Just brake with your toe and downshift and rev match with your heal. Then take your heal off the gas pedal and go to the next gear down. It's hard to do it without a jerk at first, but keep on practiving and you'll get better and better. I always do this when slowing down on off-ramps to highways. After I get used to this technique I'll be trying it out in the corners. Not comfortable doing that yet though...

 
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I've tried to heel-toe and learned how to. However, I am still not confident with corners either, I always botch it up it seems and totally overshoot them.

 
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YOU ARE NEVER SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR CAR OUT OF GEAR (except for the momentary time to shift) UNLESS YOU ARE AT A COMPLETE STOP.

and for the deaf...

YOU ARE NEVER SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR CAR OUT OF GEAR (except for the momentary time to shift) UNLESS YOU ARE AT A COMPLETE STOP.

and the retarded...

YOU ARE NEVER SUPPOSED TO TAKE YOUR CAR OUT OF GEAR (except for the momentary time to shift) UNLESS YOU ARE AT A COMPLETE STOP.

when the car is taken out of gear you are not controling the car...the car is controling you. think about that one.

 
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Exactly - when driving a car, you have only two forms of control over the car: steering wheel and throttle. If you are out of gear, you can't use the throttle to move the car and have lost 50% of your control over the vehicle. ALWAYS try to keep the car in gear whenever possible.

 
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It depends on traffic and such.. if I'm going 30km/hour froms top sign to stop sign.. I accelerate to 40 , put the car in neautral and coast... if I'm in traffic and going from 50-100-60-110 cars always in gear..if I'm going down hill I use compression braking to maintain speed...this doesn't add wear to the clutch..nor burn more fuel..it does wear your cylinder walls and rings though, same as medium-high rpm driving....when Driving I play with the heal-toe mthod in turns now and again and I'm allright with it..but with ym stock DX suspension (no rear anti-sway bar) it's kinda hard to do... ...

if I'm on the highway and it's clear and my exits like a km up the road and 'm allready speeding.. I just coast untill I get to the exit..then downshift as needed...

 
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After reading this entire topic, I'm confused. Will someone just come out with the RIGHT answer (that is if anybody does know)? I'm not exactly a pro at downshifting so I'm used to just braking then once I'm stopped, then put it back into first and take off... unless I'm not gonna come to a complete stop where as I'm going through traffic at about 40mph and the person in front of me is turning, I'll shift it back down into 2nd and creep until he turns then just go... know what I'm saying? It's ironic though cuz I had this discussion with one of my friends the other night and he was telling me about downshifting.. ha weird.

 
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Ok, Takumi, [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] , j/k. Anyways, I know how to do the Heel-toe downshifting, but what I want to learn is that left foot braking technique that Shingo uses. I know how he basically does it, but I want to get the specifics on it.

 
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Left foot braking is easy enough I guess. You do it to shave off some time in the corners. The point is to brake going into the corner and give it some gas when coming out of the corner. Sort of a gradual transition betwean the brake and the gas through the corner. No jerks means you can take the corner faster, plus you don't have to waste time shifting your foot from the brake to the gas and vice versa. This really becomes useful if there are a series of tight corners one after the other. At least that's how I see it. I don't think it has any other applications?

Hehe, that's right. I am Takumi-kun! [IMG]i/expressions/demon.gif[/IMG]

 
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I wouldnt. Brake pads are cheaper than transmissions.

 
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Heres something of the subject a little, but hey Grey, did you know that all of the locations in Initial D are real? I found a site going back a couple of months ago that has pics of the locations and such. Ill try and find it again if you want.

 
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I downshift. about 90% of the time.

its generally a better idea to stay in gear.

how will it kill ur clutch? If you do it properly, choosing the right gear, being at the right rpm and speed, you should be putting the same amount of stress you put on ur clutch when you shift up.

granted, this does mean you're using ur clutch and tranny more, but I still think you should stay in gear. its safer.

besides, whats the point of getting a manual? so you have more control over the car, so use that control.

 
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I thought that they were, but I didn't know for sure. That's k3wl though. Yeah, PM me the URL if you find it.

 
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I agree... it depends on the driving circumstances. As a compromise, this approach offers a logical solution for minimizing both brake and clutch wear. However, I do not think it is necessary to place the transmission in neutral when beginning to brake because the engine will provide a degree of resistance in assisting the stopping process. Engage the clutch prior to becoming to a complete stop. Try it out. You will see what I mean.

 
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I take it these driving schools are simple driver's license/training schools? Most every performance driving school will agree with you... downshift > braking.

downshifting isn't bad on your transmission/clutch (unless you do it wrong). Always try to keep the RPMs around the torque peak. This is more for safety reasons. More accidents are avoided by evasive maneuver than braking. If you don't downshift, a sudden split-second maneuver to avoid an accident (or debris in the road) wouldn't be too effective. Downshifting (or engine braking) could be the difference between torquing out of something's way or getting hit by it.

In regards to downshifting being "bad for the car" ... if properly done it won't do much at all. Keeping a little rev-match, feathering the clutch a bit, etc. It may wear the clutch out *slightly* faster. It is true that brakes are MUCH cheaper than drivetrain parts, but what's more valuable, your life or your clutch?

The only thing is ... don't engine brake all the way to 1st gear. The 1st gear is the gear that has the most amount of torque applied to it. (It gets the car into motion, laws of inertia require more power to get something moving). 1st gear also is the smallest gear ... smaller gears means it can break easier than others.

BTW Sumama : wassup! Finally made it on the boards

~Steve