Finally someone is doing the K20A2 swap
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 
pounds
Jeff couldn't give me a firm timeframe when I talked to him the other day. We're going to discuss it further when I arrive at the shop sometime next week. I'm hoping it won't be more than a few weeks or so.
Jeff couldn't give me a firm timeframe when I talked to him the other day. We're going to discuss it further when I arrive at the shop sometime next week. I'm hoping it won't be more than a few weeks or so.
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 robbclark1
I definitely plan to go all-out on building up the motor. As soon as rods and pistons come out for the K20A2, I am going to look at rebuilding the engine a bit. Turbo kits from HKS, GReddy, and Revhard will arrive pretty shortly, and soon after they hit the market I'll be looking to get one of those. Word is that the Revhard kit will push close to 300 hp at the wheels on a stock motor (!)
I definitely plan to go all-out on building up the motor. As soon as rods and pistons come out for the K20A2, I am going to look at rebuilding the engine a bit. Turbo kits from HKS, GReddy, and Revhard will arrive pretty shortly, and soon after they hit the market I'll be looking to get one of those. Word is that the Revhard kit will push close to 300 hp at the wheels on a stock motor (!)
The Fallen Angel . . .
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,928
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 0 Is there NE1 in the Cali area who's trustworthy enough that Htown can let the people at importbuilders know in advance that it's OK for him/her to come by and take a MILLION OR SO PICS? WE NEED THIS INFO! WHERE ARE ALL THE FR@GGIN VOLUNTEERS?!?
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 0
From: Oakland, California, US
Rep Power: 0 
The Fallen Angel . . .
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,928
Likes: 0
From: Baltimore, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 0 so. . .will someone in the area PLEASE volunteer to take the pictures? I know somebody out there ain't got no JOB!!! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG]. . .volunteers, please?
volunteer to take the pictures? I know somebody out there ain't got no JOB!!! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG]. . .volunteers, please? 
Registered!!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,204
Likes: 0
From: Roseville, CA
Rep Power: 0 WTF is with the new chassis codes? The old ones were easier to understand, like all the 5th gen including the hatch, were on the EG chassis. Now we've got EM(coupe) and EP(Si). And reading that article just makes me want the Si more.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]
Good luck htown, let us know how much modification they have to do to mount the engine in there.
Good luck htown, let us know how much modification they have to do to mount the engine in there.
Registered!!
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,922
Likes: 0
From: Oakland, California, US
Rep Power: 0 << will a car with an engine swap still be street legal? >>
If a Dodge Viper engine would fit in a Honda Civic chassis, it'd still be street legal. The Type S is only 200HP... that's not gonna get away from the cops. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: LA, California, US
Rep Power: 0 
As long as the engine is the same year or newer than the car and is a USDM engine, then it'll pass smog. Also, I would hold on to the proof of purchase just in case your asked for it when it comes time to get smogged.
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Alright, guys - mission accomplished. Right now I am typing this msg at my friend's house in El Segundo, CA. I arrived in Fullerton this afternoon, successfully delivered the car to ImportBuilders, and spent the entire day hanging around the shop. These guys are some of the coolest dudes I have ever met. I had the opportunity to meet the entire ImportBuilders crew (Jeff, Tomo, Jerry, Beto, Joe, and Trevor), toured their shop, and watched them dyno-tune some guy's '94 Accord turbocharged coupe. The owner of the car was around 60-70 years old with a few grandkids - his car had altezzas and was slammed to the ground with 16" rims. Man I sure wish my grandfather was into fixing up mports! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
And on top of that - ImportBuilders has a full-size Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting arcade machine in the shop!!! FREE too!! Man I'm telling you SF2 Hyper Fighting is my favorite video game of all time! In case any of you remember - Tomo Ohira was the former Street Fighter 2 US National Champion around ten years ago. I remember when I was around 13-15 yrs old and I bought one of those Street Fighter 2 strategy guides. There was a big picture of Tomo on the back cover and one of my friends who was pretty good at SF2 kept bragging to me, "Dude - I could easily beat this Tomo guy if I ever had the chance." Well back then we all heard the legends about Tomo - how he would beat guys at tournaments using only one hand, etc. Well how cool is it to finally meet Tomo a decade later! What a small world we live in...
The phone at ImportBuilders was ringing off the hook the entire day - these guys are definitely bringing in the business. They even had a guy from Austria call to order parts for his engine. Around 5 pm a guy who owns a complete Mugen-spec S2000 dropped by - he wanted ImportBuilders to build his engine to prepare it for race season. The S2000 owner had a $25,000 bet with a Porsche 911 owner that he would be able to beat him at 3 different races during the upcoming race season. If the guy won the bet, he was willing to give $2k of it to Jeff. This S2000 was a sight to behold - championship white, EVERY Mugen component imaginable - MF10 17" wheels, Mugen exhaust, Mugen header, Mugen suspension, everything. Close to $80k invested in a race-spec S2000!
Anyways - I was able to finally get a timetable on when the swap would be done. Jeff says that right now he is in the process of finishing up two big $$$ engines for some other customers. He says that he will be done with those by next Thursday, and that the new engine should be up and running pretty soon after that. I've got a return flight to LA booked for the 3rd week of May, and Jeff says that the swap should definitely be ready by then. I will have to get a shop to do some custom-fitted A/C lines in order to keep my A/C, but this isn't really a big deal (lots of shops in Houston are able to do this).
Basically in the next few days I have a big decision to make - reliability vs. power. While the engine is about to be swapped in, now is the time to: a) rebuild the bottom-end to prep it for a turbo app in the near future or b) get some JDM Type R cams and pistons. This comes down to a TurboPower vs. ReliableAllMotor debate. Jeff says that they could probably make about 220-230 hp at the wheels just by knife-edging the crank and installing some Type R cams and pistons. This would make a pretty powerful, SUPER RELIABLE, car that is perfect for a daily driver. If I was going to shoot for the 300+ hp turbo motor, I will probably have to have some custom pistons and rods made (since there are currently no aftermarket internals available for the K20A2). All-motor is definitely more reliable than turbo, but the new K-series block is soooo much stronger and more durable than the old B-series that I might still be able to safely boost at high levels on a daily basis.
Here are some Cliff's Notes for the lazy and/or time-crunched:
- Successfully delivered car to ImportBuilders
- Met Tomo Ohira (former US National Street Fighter 2 Champion)
- Swap will be done within 3 weeks
- Need to decide whether to build a reliable all-motor setup or a high-hp turbo monster [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
And on top of that - ImportBuilders has a full-size Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting arcade machine in the shop!!! FREE too!! Man I'm telling you SF2 Hyper Fighting is my favorite video game of all time! In case any of you remember - Tomo Ohira was the former Street Fighter 2 US National Champion around ten years ago. I remember when I was around 13-15 yrs old and I bought one of those Street Fighter 2 strategy guides. There was a big picture of Tomo on the back cover and one of my friends who was pretty good at SF2 kept bragging to me, "Dude - I could easily beat this Tomo guy if I ever had the chance." Well back then we all heard the legends about Tomo - how he would beat guys at tournaments using only one hand, etc. Well how cool is it to finally meet Tomo a decade later! What a small world we live in...
The phone at ImportBuilders was ringing off the hook the entire day - these guys are definitely bringing in the business. They even had a guy from Austria call to order parts for his engine. Around 5 pm a guy who owns a complete Mugen-spec S2000 dropped by - he wanted ImportBuilders to build his engine to prepare it for race season. The S2000 owner had a $25,000 bet with a Porsche 911 owner that he would be able to beat him at 3 different races during the upcoming race season. If the guy won the bet, he was willing to give $2k of it to Jeff. This S2000 was a sight to behold - championship white, EVERY Mugen component imaginable - MF10 17" wheels, Mugen exhaust, Mugen header, Mugen suspension, everything. Close to $80k invested in a race-spec S2000!
Anyways - I was able to finally get a timetable on when the swap would be done. Jeff says that right now he is in the process of finishing up two big $$$ engines for some other customers. He says that he will be done with those by next Thursday, and that the new engine should be up and running pretty soon after that. I've got a return flight to LA booked for the 3rd week of May, and Jeff says that the swap should definitely be ready by then. I will have to get a shop to do some custom-fitted A/C lines in order to keep my A/C, but this isn't really a big deal (lots of shops in Houston are able to do this).
Basically in the next few days I have a big decision to make - reliability vs. power. While the engine is about to be swapped in, now is the time to: a) rebuild the bottom-end to prep it for a turbo app in the near future or b) get some JDM Type R cams and pistons. This comes down to a TurboPower vs. ReliableAllMotor debate. Jeff says that they could probably make about 220-230 hp at the wheels just by knife-edging the crank and installing some Type R cams and pistons. This would make a pretty powerful, SUPER RELIABLE, car that is perfect for a daily driver. If I was going to shoot for the 300+ hp turbo motor, I will probably have to have some custom pistons and rods made (since there are currently no aftermarket internals available for the K20A2). All-motor is definitely more reliable than turbo, but the new K-series block is soooo much stronger and more durable than the old B-series that I might still be able to safely boost at high levels on a daily basis.
Here are some Cliff's Notes for the lazy and/or time-crunched:
- Successfully delivered car to ImportBuilders
- Met Tomo Ohira (former US National Street Fighter 2 Champion)
- Swap will be done within 3 weeks
- Need to decide whether to build a reliable all-motor setup or a high-hp turbo monster [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
<< Yeah Jerry said he would have to do some slight modifications to the mounts and brackets - pretty easy stuff though. >>
i got bored and went in a checked out a civic si and drove it too...from what i gather the k20 in the si only has 3 mounts...(wheel housing, front, & tranny)...i wanted to pull it aside a 02 civic to see what major differences there were but couldn't...if honda can do it with low costs in mind then it should become more common place
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: Atlanta, Georgia, US
Rep Power: 0 I would say make sure they keep notes on what they do, so that in the future anyone else that wants to do a swap will be able to go through an easier process....
Oh, and make sure you get that Type-R Helical LSD!!!
Oh, and make sure you get that Type-R Helical LSD!!!
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 0
From: Fort Myers, Florida, US
Rep Power: 0 HTown, personally I would go all motor. Nothing like pulling up next to someone and spanking them and being able to tell them it was all motor. especially in a 7th Gen Civic. hehe. I can't wait to see the results. we're rooting for you man.
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Building an all-motor setup is completely different than building a turbo setup. All-motor would consist of higher compression pistons and NA cams (longer duration, shorter overlap). Whereas a turbo setup would require some custom lower compression pistons, custom rods. The turbo would give lots more power, but I have to decide if I want power over the rock solid reliability of all-motor performance.
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 jaje
The engine mounts are the same between the two cars. I forgot Jerry's exact reason why he had to do some modifications - something to do with the fact that everything in the engine bay had to be relocated to the opposite side.
The engine mounts are the same between the two cars. I forgot Jerry's exact reason why he had to do some modifications - something to do with the fact that everything in the engine bay had to be relocated to the opposite side.
<< what about emission laws? >>
true its legal if the engine is the same year as the car, but since the RSX is LEV, and the civic is ULEV, then this poses a problem. you wont pass SMOG check with this engine in your car if you live in california, unless you have a hook-up (i happen to have one
). Also...this question goes to the man of the year with the RSX engine goin into his civic...even when you do get the engine put in, and you decide to go all-motor, or setup for a turbo (300hp?) how will you provide your car with the traction to hold all of that power? With that much power you'll be just like all the domestics around here....burn off the line for a little while, spin through second, spin through 3rd. That is of course unless you are runnin slicks. But im just curious about what you're gonna be doin about that. And, how do you figure you'll performance will be after the swap? Not straight line, no doubt that will be nice, but around corners. With the heavy engine, your front end will kick out a whole lot easier at lower speeds. Can you just add all the struts, and sway bars, to help? Or will that even do much of anything? P.S.- hope you're gettin a new clutch too
Congrats on everything though, its great news for the 2k1/2 civic!!
Registered!!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Rep Power: 0 Everyone saw what happened when EG and EK Civics and Del Sols started dropping H22A's into their chassis's and experienced lots of front/rear weight distribution problems. However, the new K series engines is designed to take up as little space as possible (to fit into the new smaller chassis) and shouldn't be that much heavier than the D17. It's one thing if you're taking an engine that's designed for a totally different platform (H22A) and dropping it into a smaller platform (B16), it's a lot easier in our case to swap two engines (D17 and K20) that are basically built on the exact same platform.
About the emission laws - I don't think it will be a problem to pass this in Texas. If anything, I'll just reclassify my car as a Type S and pay a bit higher insurance.
I'll be using the stock clutch that comes with the original Type S (in fact, I will be swapping the complete Type S drivetrain). What to do with 300 whp (if/when that happens) - to handle all that extra hp, we would probably have to get a new aftermarket clutch as well as an upgraded fuel pump and injectors. But any bolt-on turbo kit should come with the fuel pump and injectors. Traction problems can easily be solved with a good set of tires.
About the emission laws - I don't think it will be a problem to pass this in Texas. If anything, I'll just reclassify my car as a Type S and pay a bit higher insurance.
I'll be using the stock clutch that comes with the original Type S (in fact, I will be swapping the complete Type S drivetrain). What to do with 300 whp (if/when that happens) - to handle all that extra hp, we would probably have to get a new aftermarket clutch as well as an upgraded fuel pump and injectors. But any bolt-on turbo kit should come with the fuel pump and injectors. Traction problems can easily be solved with a good set of tires.
