Possible Bent Valves?
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Re: Possible Bent Valves?
I forgot about this one
It's a splice pack. It has multiple pins to bridge several circuits together instead of using crimps or something in the middle of a harness. There are several spliced groups in each.
Up to you.
Link to current timing belt tension video. Tension okay or too tight? I can't tell a darn thing from here.
Your tension checks should be done on "the long side of the belt", and you need to pull your pulleys to gather all slack to that side of the belt.
"I've already forgotten more than most will ever know."
And.... if this was a forum about cooking I'd be a total n0ob.
Speed comes with experience.
Knowledge makes me stop and think --- sometimes too much-- and it can slow me down LOL
HTH
Should I wrap electrical tape around them to prevent accidental grounding?
Link to current timing belt tension video. Tension okay or too tight?
Your tension checks should be done on "the long side of the belt", and you need to pull your pulleys to gather all slack to that side of the belt.
I wish I had at least half your knowledge.. then I wouldn't be going so damn slow.
And.... if this was a forum about cooking I'd be a total n0ob.
Speed comes with experience.
Knowledge makes me stop and think --- sometimes too much-- and it can slow me down LOL
HTH
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Questions concerning proper timing alignment:
Scenario question:
a, Engine at TDC,
b. timing gear (behind crankshaft pulley) mark is in line with oil pump arrow (stamped on block),
c, crankshaft pulley timing marks align with pointers on lower timing cover
d. cam gear "UP" mark is not at 12 o'clock position
Does this mean timing may have skipped a tooth/teeth?
How to get the cam gear "UP" mark back to 12 o'clock position and in line with the timing gear & crankshaft pulley marks?
Scenario question:
a, Engine at TDC,
b. timing gear (behind crankshaft pulley) mark is in line with oil pump arrow (stamped on block),
c, crankshaft pulley timing marks align with pointers on lower timing cover
d. cam gear "UP" mark is not at 12 o'clock position
Does this mean timing may have skipped a tooth/teeth?
How to get the cam gear "UP" mark back to 12 o'clock position and in line with the timing gear & crankshaft pulley marks?
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the timing marks on the cam are very small dashes like this - one on each side of the cam pulley, they should be in line with the cylinder heads upper surface with the valve cover removed,
how far off is the "up" mark?
if the "up" mark is 180 degrees off and at the bottom, then you need to rotate the crank one full revolution, the cam only turns once for every 2 crank revolutions
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the "up" mark is not the timing mark, thats just a general indication,the timing marks on the cam are very small dashes like this - one on each side of the cam pulley, they should be in line with the cylinder heads upper surface with the valve cover removed,how far off is the "up" mark?
if the "up" mark is 180 degrees off and at the bottom, then you need to rotate the crank one full revolution, the cam only turns once for every 2 crank revolutions
if the "up" mark is 180 degrees off and at the bottom, then you need to rotate the crank one full revolution, the cam only turns once for every 2 crank revolutions
Make sure timing gear mark is aligned to pointer on block. Crankshaft pulley marks are aligned to pointers on lower timing cover. Cam gear's UP mark is at or very near 12 o'clock position and the two marks behind the cam gear are parallel/even to the cylinder head with valve cover off.
For almost the entire time I've been going through the timing belt retensioning process the UP mark would always land a noon position when crankshaft pulley mark aligned with pointers at TDC, However, the last time (yesterday) I tried to retension it I held my hand on the cam shaft gear while slowly turning the crankshaft counter clockwise. Held my knee on the socket wrench (crankshaft) for tension and tightened the tensioner bolt. After manually turning the crankshaft to TDC the cam's UP mark is now at the 10 or 11 o'clock position... crank pulley mark still at proper position, I don't plan to mess with it further until timing kit arrives.
If the timing gear happened to jump a tooth is it just a matter of getting back to TDC, removing the timing gear and reinstalling it so the mark lines up eith the arrow stamped on the block? By the way I couldn't see that arrow when I pulled the harmonic balancer/crank pulley. Does every block have one?
I found an ASE certified mobile mechanic that will install the timing kit I ordered, remove and replace front crankshaft seal, install all three accessory belts and warranty for 90 days for $125 (labor only). I am tempted to use him because my lack of experience with getting the tension correct, possible timing gear adjustment.
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line up the crankshaft marks.....take a picture of the marks, then take a picture of the camshaft position/marks, and post them here
you get what you pay for 
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Here's a reply from my e-mail conversation with mobile mechanic:
Me: I have a few questions:
1) Do you warranty you work
2) Have proof of your ASE certification
3) Have you changed several timing belts on older Honda's
4) Scenario question:
a, Engine at TDC,
b. timing gear (behind crankshaft pulley) mark is in line with oil pump arrow (stamped on block),
c, crankshaft pulley timing marks align with pointers on lower timing cover
d. cam gear "UP" mark is not at 12 o'clock position
Does this mean timing may have skipped a tooth/teeth?
How to get the cam gear "UP" mark back to 12 o'clock position and in line with the timing gear & crankshaft pulley marks?
Him: No warranty sorry, Ase certified, graduated porter and chester automotive mechanics, i have replaced at least 20 Honda timing belts. Yes cam gear sounds to be at least a tooth off time. Remove belt, and turn cam gear by putting the appropriate wrench on the cam gear bolt and turn to align. If the valve covers removed you can also turn the camshaft with a wrench in the designated spot. Thanks
Isn't it incorrect and possibly damaging to spin the cam with the timing belt off?
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 18, 2015 at 04:10 PM.
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Do you seriously not remember the info and picture in reply #39?
Isn't it incorrect and possibly damaging to spin the cam with the timing belt off? I can spin a camshaft all day long ---as long I know the positions of each of ALL of the pistons are such that no interference (contact) can occur between pistons and valves.
You, on the other hand, might not want to attempt this without more thorough research.
Isn't it incorrect and possibly damaging to spin the cam with the timing belt off?
You, on the other hand, might not want to attempt this without more thorough research.
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'
That was 5 days ago. I can't even remember what happen 24 hours ago.. I choose not to live in the past..lol.
Seriously though, I do remember you saying the UP mark is not a timing mark and I get that.. but, if you're a noob like me and you're looking through threads and videos and everyone is saying line up timing gear, line up crankshaft pulley marks, and put cam's UP mark straight up (noon) at TDC then that's what a noob expects to happen. True TDC is when piston 1 is at it's peak and I have used a long screwdriver in the spark plug hole + check with a flashlight to ensure that, rather than relying on the cam UP mark.
Is it fair to say that ideally the UP mark would land at 12 o'clock at TDC even though it's not a timing mark?
And here is where the root of my problem lies. Inexperience leads to insecurity. which leads to doubt, which leads to a lot of over-thinking, that leads to me looking like a fool here..lol. As much as I hate to pay anyone to do any type of work for me (and I rarely do), as critical as the engine timing is I might want to hire this one out. To justify paying someone to ease my mind in this case might be my best bet.
Although if I do hire it out I will watch them closely to see how it's done.
That was 5 days ago. I can't even remember what happen 24 hours ago.. I choose not to live in the past..lol.
Seriously though, I do remember you saying the UP mark is not a timing mark and I get that.. but, if you're a noob like me and you're looking through threads and videos and everyone is saying line up timing gear, line up crankshaft pulley marks, and put cam's UP mark straight up (noon) at TDC then that's what a noob expects to happen. True TDC is when piston 1 is at it's peak and I have used a long screwdriver in the spark plug hole + check with a flashlight to ensure that, rather than relying on the cam UP mark.
Is it fair to say that ideally the UP mark would land at 12 o'clock at TDC even though it's not a timing mark?
Although if I do hire it out I will watch them closely to see how it's done.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 18, 2015 at 10:35 PM.
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it depends on who that person is,
you still have not posted the pictures i requested, and you seem to be ignoring good advice and information from other members in this thread,
i am not going to waste my time here any longer, you cant force a horse to drink water.....good luck
Isn't it incorrect and possibly damaging to spin the cam with the timing belt off?
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I can't remember if I wiped my azz or washed my hands 10 minutes ago.
I choose not to live in the past..lol.
Seriously though, I do remember you saying the UP mark is not a timing mark and I get that.. but, if you're a noob like me and you're looking through threads and videos and everyone is saying line up timing gear, line up crankshaft pulley marks, and put cam's UP mark straight up (noon) at TDC then that's what a noob expects to happen.
Is it still in correct time?
And here is where the root of my problem lies. Inexperience leads to insecurity. which leads to doubt, which leads to a lot of over-thinking, that leads to me looking like a fool here..lol.
Rotate the crank 90 degrees away from the TDC mark,
All 4 pistons will be mid-stroke, no valves can make contact.
then it's safe to spin the cam wherever you want.
Align cam gear timing marks with the flat surface of the head as described earlier.
Then turn the crank back 90 degrees to where it began.
If you continued to turn the crank 3/4 turn to tdc again it would flatten any open valves as two wrong pistons go to the top of their strokes..
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it depends on who that person is,
you still have not posted the pictures i requested, and you seem to be ignoring good advice and information from other members in this thread, i am not going to waste my time here any longer, you cant force a horse to drink water.....good luck
you still have not posted the pictures i requested, and you seem to be ignoring good advice and information from other members in this thread, i am not going to waste my time here any longer, you cant force a horse to drink water.....good luck
"Okay, but it will be tomorrow. I am not getting out of bed today until I get ready for my night shift at 9 pm. Need a break from that POS car..lol. I hope it can't hear me and take revenge."
I don't feel I have purposefully ignored good advice here and if I have I apologize.There's definitely a learning curve and parts that I am not fully grasping but, I really do appreciate both Ezone's and your help and patience. I'm pretty much confident that through both of your help that I can get the timing marks correct or corrected (if need be) but, as I stated before my biggest issue is how do I know the proper belt tension..it seems there a small margin between too tight and too loose. for all I know I may have had it tensioned perfectly at one point but, assumed it was too loose.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 18, 2015 at 11:44 PM.
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Service manual is on my laptop..free download
Not sure if it's still in correct time because currently both timing covers off (no points to align with) and crankshaft pulley is on ..due to what I described in previous post when I was trying to isolate if the tensioner or loose timing belt was causing the knocking noise. I'd have to remove the crankshaft bolt and pulley to check timing gear to verify.
So, to be clear when you say: back 90 degrees that would be in clockwise or counter-clockwise rotation? Also to be clear I do know the engine operates in a counter-clockwise rotation.
Not sure if it's still in correct time because currently both timing covers off (no points to align with) and crankshaft pulley is on ..due to what I described in previous post when I was trying to isolate if the tensioner or loose timing belt was causing the knocking noise. I'd have to remove the crankshaft bolt and pulley to check timing gear to verify.
In a nutshell: With the timing belt removed:
Rotate the crank 90 degrees away from the TDC mark,
All 4 pistons will be mid-stroke, no valves can make contact.
then it's safe to spin the cam wherever you want.
Align cam gear timing marks with the flat surface of the head as described earlier.
Then turn the crank back 90 degrees to where it began.
If you continued to turn the crank 3/4 turn to tdc again it would flatten any open valves as two wrong pistons go to the top of their strokes..
Rotate the crank 90 degrees away from the TDC mark,
All 4 pistons will be mid-stroke, no valves can make contact.
then it's safe to spin the cam wherever you want.
Align cam gear timing marks with the flat surface of the head as described earlier.
Then turn the crank back 90 degrees to where it began.
If you continued to turn the crank 3/4 turn to tdc again it would flatten any open valves as two wrong pistons go to the top of their strokes..
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
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Service manual is on my laptop..free download
Not sure if it's still in correct time because currently both timing covers off (no points to align with) and crankshaft pulley is on ..due to what I described in previous post when I was trying to isolate if the tensioner or loose timing belt was causing the knocking noise. I'd have to remove the crankshaft bolt and pulley to check timing gear to verify.
Not sure if it's still in correct time because currently both timing covers off (no points to align with) and crankshaft pulley is on ..due to what I described in previous post when I was trying to isolate if the tensioner or loose timing belt was causing the knocking noise. I'd have to remove the crankshaft bolt and pulley to check timing gear to verify.
I can find #1 TDC without marks (close enough for government work anyway)
and the marks for the cam are always there.
So, to be clear when you say: back 90 degrees that would be in clockwise or counter-clockwise rotation? Also to be clear I do know the engine operates in a counter-clockwise rotation.
If you turned the crank a quarter turn away from the TDC mark, there's only one way to get it back to the starting point without making a full revolution.
--------------------------------------
Or....
Make a chalk mark on the pulley pointing straight up.
Turn the crank 90 degrees in either direction.
Now turn it back to the starting point with the least possible movement.
how do I know the proper belt tension..it seems there a small margin between too tight and too loose. for all I know I may have had it tensioned perfectly at one point but, assumed it was too loose.
There is a specific procedure for setting belt tension. FOLLOW IT to the letter. (I'd kinda like to know what is says first though)
The spring and pulley will do the job they were designed to do and it will be ok.
You're replacing the timing belt in another week(?) anyway, this will be fine for now.
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Well, looks like I spazzed it a again .. Timing marks are fine (see pics).
Retensioned belt, started engine and ran for 5 minutes. No CEL, no engine noise, timing seems good.
BUT
Burning oil near bottom of head and behind exhaust manifold (see pic) which looks new (smoke doesn't wain and gets worse when revved).
Large bubbles in radiator/coolant after operating temp reached. **I did not run engine long enough to burp coolant during prior test runs**
Didn't want to run it any longer than 5 minutes today so, still not properly burped... bubbles made me nervous.
My guess is head gasket is still leaking.
Retensioned belt, started engine and ran for 5 minutes. No CEL, no engine noise, timing seems good.
BUT
Burning oil near bottom of head and behind exhaust manifold (see pic) which looks new (smoke doesn't wain and gets worse when revved).
Large bubbles in radiator/coolant after operating temp reached. **I did not run engine long enough to burp coolant during prior test runs**
Didn't want to run it any longer than 5 minutes today so, still not properly burped... bubbles made me nervous.
My guess is head gasket is still leaking.
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if the engine is running fine i would drive the car, at least take it around the block and keep a close eye on the temp guage, if it gets past 3/4mark shut it off,
the best way to burp the system is to drive it, and give it a few blasts of fast acceleration/high rpms
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Large bubbles in radiator/coolant after operating temp reached. **I did not run engine long enough to burp coolant during prior test runs**
Didn't want to run it any longer than 5 minutes today so, still not properly burped... bubbles made me nervous.
Didn't want to run it any longer than 5 minutes today so, still not properly burped... bubbles made me nervous.
I let them run until the fans cycle a few times for the burping process. Then button it up and go run the car up the highway.
Do what mikey said.
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i think you are being a bit paranoid at this point in time, if the engine is running fine i would drive the car, at least take it around the block and keep a close eye on the temp guage, if it gets past 3/4mark shut it off, the best way to burp the system is to drive it, and give it a few blasts of fast acceleration/high rpms
The headgasket is an OEM Nippon MLS (leakless) and I had a bit of trouble figuring out which side goes up. No directions included. There wasn't an "UP" mark of any sort so I went by the few pics that were posted online. There was a serial number stamped on it (in bare metal) and that is this side I put up towards the bottom of cylinder head. That same side of the gasket was all black,except for the serial number stamp.
The other side of the gasket is mostly black but had a few spots of bare metal near the piston openings.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 19, 2015 at 09:11 PM.
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The origin of Turd Ferguson ..SNL skit video (will start after commercial)
http://www.hulu.com/watch/12203
http://www.hulu.com/watch/12203
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Car still on jack-stands. Started it up and ran it for about 10 to 15 minutes.
Good news: smoke/burning oil has subsided.
For coolant bleeding: cold started with cap loose and when slightly warm remove cap and inserted a funnel to prevent over-spill and watch for bubbles during burp. Temp gauge stayed steady between 1/3 and half way mark at normal operating temp. Mostly tiny bubbles with the occasional larger bubble (hopefully air pocket) . Shut engine off and with rag installed radiator new radiator cap. Restarted engine and had a terrible squeal which could possible be the alternator belt as I don't have a proper pry-bar to get appropriate tension... I used a 1/2" socket extension from the bottom but it's been slightly squealing each scold start-up since I slip retensioned it a few days ago. I didn't try to restart engine again.
Another observation is the timing belt tension feels like its slightly tighter on the firewall (up revolution) side than on the downward (radiator) side. I hope this isn't causing the squeal.
As far as torquing down the crankshaft bolt what's the best way when it's out of my torque wrench range? Currently it's as tight as I could get it using the crank pulley holder + 30" breaker bar + 3 foot extension pipe.
I really want to get it on the road for testing tomorrow. I plan to retension alternator belt. Should I retension timing belt too due to aforementioned? Also, idle feels a bit rough but hard to tell if it's an issue or is caused by car on jack-stands and somewhat to the new left lower motor mount.
Good news: smoke/burning oil has subsided.
For coolant bleeding: cold started with cap loose and when slightly warm remove cap and inserted a funnel to prevent over-spill and watch for bubbles during burp. Temp gauge stayed steady between 1/3 and half way mark at normal operating temp. Mostly tiny bubbles with the occasional larger bubble (hopefully air pocket) . Shut engine off and with rag installed radiator new radiator cap. Restarted engine and had a terrible squeal which could possible be the alternator belt as I don't have a proper pry-bar to get appropriate tension... I used a 1/2" socket extension from the bottom but it's been slightly squealing each scold start-up since I slip retensioned it a few days ago. I didn't try to restart engine again.
Another observation is the timing belt tension feels like its slightly tighter on the firewall (up revolution) side than on the downward (radiator) side. I hope this isn't causing the squeal.
As far as torquing down the crankshaft bolt what's the best way when it's out of my torque wrench range? Currently it's as tight as I could get it using the crank pulley holder + 30" breaker bar + 3 foot extension pipe.
I really want to get it on the road for testing tomorrow. I plan to retension alternator belt. Should I retension timing belt too due to aforementioned? Also, idle feels a bit rough but hard to tell if it's an issue or is caused by car on jack-stands and somewhat to the new left lower motor mount.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 19, 2015 at 10:32 PM.
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Another observation is the timing belt tension feels like
Should I retension timing belt too due to aforementioned?
Should I retension timing belt too due to aforementioned?
The alternator belt is the squeal.
As far as torquing down the crankshaft bolt
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Yes Sir.
Just think... now you can defer this thread to annoying noobs (like me) who have similar questions
Crankshaft pulley bolt
1996-earlier………………………………......130 ft-lbs
1997-later
Step 1.……………………………...............14 ft-lbs
Step 2.……………………………...............Tighten and additional 90 degrees
Some threads mention they checked it at 180 ft-lbs: https://www.google.com/#q=honda+civi...olt+180+ft+lbs
Just think... now you can defer this thread to annoying noobs (like me) who have similar questions
Crankshaft pulley bolt
1996-earlier………………………………......130 ft-lbs
1997-later
Step 1.……………………………...............14 ft-lbs
Step 2.……………………………...............Tighten and additional 90 degrees
Some threads mention they checked it at 180 ft-lbs: https://www.google.com/#q=honda+civi...olt+180+ft+lbs
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 19, 2015 at 11:31 PM.
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I gave it a nice steady turn and a good amount of downward force until bolt made creaking sound and then less than a quarter turn after that.
I did some pipe standing (sounds weird) when I removed the driver's side spindle nut for a CV axle replacement a few months ago. My fatness paid off on that one.
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That's not what the instructions say.
Last edited by ezone; Jun 20, 2015 at 12:20 AM.
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I know (now that is) because when I tightened it I was in a pissy frame of mind and just hurried through while I had my son to help. I never bother to look at that particular torque spec then. I assure you though that I torqued spec'd as many bolt/nuts as I could otherwise, as long as I could fit a socket and torque wrench on. I still have the crank holder and can redo it if need be. A lot of threads I read most just air gunned it on as tight as they could get it.. not saying that's the right way though and I don't have air tools.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 20, 2015 at 12:53 AM.
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As far as torquing down the crankshaft bolt what's the best way when it's out of my torque wrench range? Currently it's as tight as I could get it using the crank pulley holder + 30" breaker bar + 3 foot extension pipe.
i dont normally use a torque wrench on that bolt, i only use an 18 inch breaker bar and do it up as tight as i can just using my hands (not too much body weight) mind you im a pretty strong guy
i guess i would compare the force i use to about the same as tightening up a wheel stud/nut
Should I retension timing belt too due to aforementioned? Also, idle feels a bit rough but hard to tell if it's an issue or is caused by car on jack-stands and somewhat to the new left lower motor mount.
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There's brownish (maybe rust or crud) specs floating around at the top of the radiator during burping process last night. It's just distilled water in the system currently because I planned all along to flush it with distilled water once or twice before adding 50/50 mix . Should I flush it out now, burp it before or after test drive (when cold of course)?
