Possible Bent Valves?
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Re: Possible Bent Valves?
Ezone..took your advice and did not use any chemical coolant flush.
Did belt tension and as you predicted there was no difference.
Did another valve adjustment at .008 intake and .010 exhaust.
Checked cam mark and crank pulley mark during valve lash and they lined up every time.
Put everything back together, topped oil off, filled coolant system with distilled water. Cranked engine and let it run for 30 seconds or less and rechecked cam and crank pulley after manually rotating crank to TDC... Now, the crankshaft pulley timing mark is slightly off (towards front of car).
I don't think the timing belt slipped or jumped tooth\teeth.. I think it might be that the cam gear's UP position that the machinist set might be off. Afraid to start it again until I get response(s).
As a side note: the short time it was running idle seemed very smooth.
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what timing marks are you going by?
are you looking at the timing belt pulley? or are you going by the timing marks on the harmonic balancer lined up with the marks on the timing belt cover?
it would probably help if you took pictures and posted them, take pictures when you aligned the crank, then take pictures of them cam positioning
are you looking at the timing belt pulley? or are you going by the timing marks on the harmonic balancer lined up with the marks on the timing belt cover?
it would probably help if you took pictures and posted them, take pictures when you aligned the crank, then take pictures of them cam positioning
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I got TDC with long screwdriver as stated before.. UP mark on cam was lined (12 o'clock position) up at TDC. Crankshaft pulley 1st mark (separated about 1/2" from other marks ) was in line with the the v-shaped sight marks auntil I started the engine. Now it's about 1/8 of an inch off (towards front of car).
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 10, 2015 at 06:12 PM.
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Looks like I spazzed it..operator error. Up mark on cam was slightly past 12 o'clock which in turn moved the crankshaft timing mark slightly forward (as it should). Manually cranked to TDC and timing marks were in line again. Started the engine again and now have CEL plus heard a low volume knocking noise. My son is going to test with his OBD2 scanner when he arrives. Car seemed to be idling higher(about 1800-2000 RPM) than normal cold idle .
Turned engine off turned crank manually to TDC and both cam gear and crank pulley marks are still aligned. Worried now and depression is starting to creep in ..lol.
Turned engine off turned crank manually to TDC and both cam gear and crank pulley marks are still aligned. Worried now and depression is starting to creep in ..lol.
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Looks like water on the oil dipstick, knocking sound during idle..I'm f'd.
Figures. CEL is P0135 = o2 sensor
Figures. CEL is P0135 = o2 sensor
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The word UP on the cam gear is not the timing mark, it's only there as a general area indication. It may not sit at exactly 12 oclock.
The notches in the edge of the cam pulley are the marks, they align with the horizontal surface of the head ---unless otherwise noted in the service info for a particular engine (I don't know which engine you have)
Much like this (D17 engine)
Knocking? How loud? Did it do it before? You sure it's a bad thing?
Drain the oil and change it before going further, see what happens?
The notches in the edge of the cam pulley are the marks, they align with the horizontal surface of the head ---unless otherwise noted in the service info for a particular engine (I don't know which engine you have)
Much like this (D17 engine)
Knocking? How loud? Did it do it before? You sure it's a bad thing?
Drain the oil and change it before going further, see what happens?
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Horrible noises get louder as RPM goes up and load changes.
Noises only at idle may not be what you are thinking (not worst case scenario)
Noises only at idle may not be what you are thinking (not worst case scenario)
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The word UP on the cam gear is not the timing mark, it's only there as a general area indication. It may not sit at exactly 12 oclock.
The notches in the edge of the cam pulley are the marks, they align with the horizontal surface of the head ---unless otherwise noted in the service info for a particular engine (I don't know which engine you have)
Knocking? How loud? Did it do it before? You sure it's a bad thing?
Drain the oil and change it before going further, see what happens?
The notches in the edge of the cam pulley are the marks, they align with the horizontal surface of the head ---unless otherwise noted in the service info for a particular engine (I don't know which engine you have)
Knocking? How loud? Did it do it before? You sure it's a bad thing?
Drain the oil and change it before going further, see what happens?
After my last post we started the engine and my son thinks the noise is coming from the timing belt / tensioner area (somewhere behind lower timing belt cover) and sounds like it's emanating from lower than the valves. I thought it might be coming from steering pump at first because I removed and reinstalled that belt for the head gasket replacement.The noise is constant and after listening to closer it does sound like plastic being hit instead of metal but, not sure really. I didn't want to rev it up .. too nervous.
The oil looks thinner than normal and a few inches up from the oil level marks it beads upward for 2 to 3 inches. It's cheap walmart oil so, maybe that's why..lol. I will change it tomorrow.
Don't know what's up with the o2 sensor...it was working fine before tear-down,
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Don't know what's up with the o2 sensor...it was working fine before tear-down,
Have you driven it yet, see if the speedometer still works? Letting the front wheels spin on jackstands would let you see if the speedo is still working..
my son thinks the noise is coming from the timing belt.
after listening to closer it does sound like plastic being hit instead of metal
after listening to closer it does sound like plastic being hit instead of metal
Did you ever do the timing belt tension procedure, or did you just slap it together and run it?
and a few inches up from the oil level marks it beads upward for 2 to 3 inches.
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No other codes and really hope it's not the ECU.
http://engine-codes.com/p0135_honda.html During tear-down I got a little rough with the o2 sensor's connection to the wiring harness because I kept trying to pull off the wrong side of the two connectors.. I ended up breaking the clip (only) and used electrical tape to keep the connectors together. (and then this same guy tried a head-gasket repair,,lol).
Haven't put it in gear yet.
I re-tensioned it but, with my lack of experience I more than likely didn't get it right, The crankshaft pulley mark is still lining up so maybe it's loose but not so loose it's jumping? Another thing that's possible is I may have dropped something into the lower timing cover without realizing it?
I may or may not work on it tomorrow as I'm kinda burnt out on it and I'm working night shift tonight. My son's friend's father used to work on Honda's so I might employ his help if I can't get it sorted out soon.
http://engine-codes.com/p0135_honda.html During tear-down I got a little rough with the o2 sensor's connection to the wiring harness because I kept trying to pull off the wrong side of the two connectors.. I ended up breaking the clip (only) and used electrical tape to keep the connectors together. (and then this same guy tried a head-gasket repair,,lol).
I may or may not work on it tomorrow as I'm kinda burnt out on it and I'm working night shift tonight. My son's friend's father used to work on Honda's so I might employ his help if I can't get it sorted out soon.
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maybe it's loose but not so loose it's jumping?
Maybe you can use a stethoscope and determine where it's making contact without taking anything apart.
Another thing that's possible is I may have dropped something into the lower timing cover without realizing it?
CSB time:
Once upon a time....
-----------------------------------
Some kid stuck a turbo on his DOHC engine swapped Civic, had the cool looking adjustable timing gears and all that jazz.
Of course he leaves the upper timing cover off so you can see the gears and they can be adjusted easily.
At some point one of the timing cover bolts made its way into the open belt area.
Guess how much that cost LOL
And the best thing was all the cover bolts were accounted for in the covers that were still attached to the engine.
The bolt that did all the damage was (we guessed) from the missing cover, so that meant the owner/tinkerer had to have caused all this mess.
Probably left the bolt laying on top of the valve cover then started driving it.
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I think my course of action next time I work on it is:
1) change oil and filter
2) remove lower timing cover, look for any unwanted objects and inspect tension throughout belt, inspect tensioner and spring, re-adjust tension and check throughout entire belt.
3) If I get the noise sorted out..celebrate with a Lagunitas Censored beer.
4) Recheck o2 sensor connection, spray with electronic lube/cleaner. Check heated oxygen sensor fuse..replace if needed.
Do this if need be: http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/hon...nostic-tests-1
My engine sounds similar to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRTl_41yjU8
Maybe tensioner too?
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I still have the upper housing off
My engine sounds similar to this
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We repeated all the steps a few more times and each time the belt would lose tension. I am not sure if it's something we're doing wrong or the belt is too stretched to work properly?
My plan was to re-tension the timing belt, leave both timing covers off, have only alternator belt accessory on and run engine to hopefully rid noise previously posted or at least hopefully isolate it if it is still present. Unfortunately, can't get proper tension on timing belt. Any suggestions?
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Not sure under load but, doubt it. An old friend of mine who' works on cars and marine engines just helped me tension it tighter but, it's dark out and it would take me about a half hour to get the upper left mount and alternator belt back on to start it up and didn't want to keep him waiting. I plan to get back on it this Monday and told me to call him if I need help.
When I pulled off the crank pulley I couldn't find the arrow that' should be stamped on the block The mark on the timing sprocket was pointing at approximately the 1 pm (clock reference) position at TDC. As stated before I plan to run it (on jack stands) with both timing covers off and alternator only... in that way if it's noisy I can isolate it easier if it happens to be the tensioner. My friend described a bad tensioner noise to me and it could be what I was hearing a few days ago.
When I pulled off the crank pulley I couldn't find the arrow that' should be stamped on the block The mark on the timing sprocket was pointing at approximately the 1 pm (clock reference) position at TDC. As stated before I plan to run it (on jack stands) with both timing covers off and alternator only... in that way if it's noisy I can isolate it easier if it happens to be the tensioner. My friend described a bad tensioner noise to me and it could be what I was hearing a few days ago.
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1998 Civic
Take off the AC belt and see if the noise is gone. Then spin each pulley by hand and listen.
The adjuster pulley bearing goes bad a lot. There's probably a half dozen of them used as paperweights at the service desk at work.
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I'll spin it by hand first during reinstall.Be nice if it was that.
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During downtime I checked out info concerning o2 sensors and came across this:
At a point in the video he describes that silicone is the enemy of o2 sensors and do not use them on intakes.
Well, as my luck (and stupidity) would have it I used a very small amount of hondabond on the intake manifold gasket: underneath two mounting holes where the studs slide into.
Last week I had to remove the intake to replace the knock sensor. The week prior to that I put a new paper gasket on the intake manifold (part of HG gasket kit) during the head gasket repair. When I pulled the intake manifold off for the knock sensor it tore at two locations under the mounting holes I described. I probably could have use the intake gasket anyway with those tears present since they are not near the intake ports. In my infinite wisdom and laziness I decided to Hondabond them instead of taking the time and money to buy a new gasket. By small amount I mean about 1/4" run each only.
Is this the reason for the CEL P0135 code? Being that I haven't checked voltage, ohms, continuity and fuse yet I don't want to jump to that conclusion. However, if those all check out it's a possibility. I should relabel my thread as "The 20/20 Hindsight Repair" because half the **** I've done I can look back and say I would've done it differently had I known..such is life
Well, as my luck (and stupidity) would have it I used a very small amount of hondabond on the intake manifold gasket: underneath two mounting holes where the studs slide into.
Last week I had to remove the intake to replace the knock sensor. The week prior to that I put a new paper gasket on the intake manifold (part of HG gasket kit) during the head gasket repair. When I pulled the intake manifold off for the knock sensor it tore at two locations under the mounting holes I described. I probably could have use the intake gasket anyway with those tears present since they are not near the intake ports. In my infinite wisdom and laziness I decided to Hondabond them instead of taking the time and money to buy a new gasket. By small amount I mean about 1/4" run each only.
Is this the reason for the CEL P0135 code? Being that I haven't checked voltage, ohms, continuity and fuse yet I don't want to jump to that conclusion. However, if those all check out it's a possibility. I should relabel my thread as "The 20/20 Hindsight Repair" because half the **** I've done I can look back and say I would've done it differently had I known..such is life
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amount of hondabond on the intake manifold gasket..
Is this the reason for the CEL P0135 code?
Is this the reason for the CEL P0135 code?
#2, It can't cause your code.
From a link above:
P0135 Honda - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction Bank 1 Sensor 1
A code for a circuit problem was not caused by silicone contamination.
This computer monitors the heater circuits to determine this code.
I haven't checked voltage, ohms, continuity and fuse yet I don't want to jump to that conclusion.
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#1, Read the tube of Hondabond. Does it state it is safe for sensors? #2, It can't cause your code.
From a link above:
P0135 Honda - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction Bank 1 Sensor 1
A code for a circuit problem was not caused by silicone contamination.
This computer monitors the heater circuits to determine this code.
I think you already jumped LOL.. You should start checking those.
From a link above:
P0135 Honda - O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction Bank 1 Sensor 1
A code for a circuit problem was not caused by silicone contamination.
This computer monitors the heater circuits to determine this code.
I think you already jumped LOL.. You should start checking those.
I'll do volt and ohms on it tomorrow before I run engine. Is there a fuse or fuses I should check?
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1998 Civic EX with stock D16Y8.. A/T, 147K miles
Is there a fuse or fuses I should check?
Sensor Heater resistance spec looks like 10-40 ohms.
If you find the fuse to be blown, you need to read the bulletin about fixing wiring underneath the intake manifold.
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Fuse 15 in the dash box, and it also supplies power to the other O2 sensor, the ELD, VSS, alternator, and EVAP system solenoids.
Sensor Heater resistance spec looks like 10-40 ohms.
If you find the fuse to be blown, you need to read the bulletin about fixing wiring underneath the intake manifold.
Sensor Heater resistance spec looks like 10-40 ohms.
If you find the fuse to be blown, you need to read the bulletin about fixing wiring underneath the intake manifold.
BLK/WHT reads 4.3v.. should be 12v.
o2 sensor pins 3 & 4 reading 13.6 ohms (acceptable range is 10-40 ohms).
Pics of under intake manifold connections... Is the gray piece that is connected to the blue piece just a cap? Should I wrap electrical tape around them to prevent accidental grounding?
Pic of oiled drained this morning.. it's only a few days old and engine run for a total of about 2 minutes.. already smells old and looks older than it should but, no appearance of water in it.
Link to current timing belt tension video. Tension okay or too tight?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u0N...ature=youtu.be
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Update
Started engine (timing belts covers off and only alternator hooked up) and belt was a bit tight so I re-tensioned it and let it run for a few minutes..results:
1) Previous knocking noise gone. So, was either belt too loose and hitting lower belt cover, A/C belt tensioner or (doubtfully) maybe an accessory belt issue.
2) CEL is gone. Maybe just a loose o2 sensor connection?
3) Oil burning from or near exhaust manifold..most likely old oil spilled on exhaust manifold and leaked to bottom of it were I didn't wipe it off. Also, I cleaned the entire engine and transmission with gunk engine cleaner (when cold) + dawn soap,water and brush + finished off by wiping with dry rags.
4) Only ran the engine for about three minutes and revved mildly... have a feeling after I re-tensioned the belt is now slightly loose.
The left lower front motor mount is still off and all my other mounts are hard rubber Anchor brand replacements. Hard to tell if the timing might be off a tooth however: engine starts fine, no hesitation, just feels like a slight miss which could be attributed to ECU relearn or possibly the need for adjusting timing (distributor) with a timing light.
Still not confident to let it run for a while and rev it up.. but, definite progress knowing the previous knock was an external and not internal issue.
Also, glad CEL is gone.
I could ask my friend to come over, he's been a mechanic for years but, doesn't specialize in Honda's so, not sure if he could tell a difference or not?
Started engine (timing belts covers off and only alternator hooked up) and belt was a bit tight so I re-tensioned it and let it run for a few minutes..results:
1) Previous knocking noise gone. So, was either belt too loose and hitting lower belt cover, A/C belt tensioner or (doubtfully) maybe an accessory belt issue.
2) CEL is gone. Maybe just a loose o2 sensor connection?
3) Oil burning from or near exhaust manifold..most likely old oil spilled on exhaust manifold and leaked to bottom of it were I didn't wipe it off. Also, I cleaned the entire engine and transmission with gunk engine cleaner (when cold) + dawn soap,water and brush + finished off by wiping with dry rags.
4) Only ran the engine for about three minutes and revved mildly... have a feeling after I re-tensioned the belt is now slightly loose.
The left lower front motor mount is still off and all my other mounts are hard rubber Anchor brand replacements. Hard to tell if the timing might be off a tooth however: engine starts fine, no hesitation, just feels like a slight miss which could be attributed to ECU relearn or possibly the need for adjusting timing (distributor) with a timing light.
Still not confident to let it run for a while and rev it up.. but, definite progress knowing the previous knock was an external and not internal issue.
Also, glad CEL is gone.
I could ask my friend to come over, he's been a mechanic for years but, doesn't specialize in Honda's so, not sure if he could tell a difference or not?
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 17, 2015 at 02:35 PM.
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Turns out (after I checked oil filter hours later) there is a few ounces of water in oil filter. Could this be from water/coolant that seeped past the pistons prior to head gasket repair? I really hope it is. If you recall I previously described what appeared to be beads of water on the oil dipstick a few inches above the "full" mark. Checked the dipstick again after new oil change and it isn't beading up anymore.. not sure if it means a good sign or not? If need be I'll do another oil change to make sure and this time check the filter right away. According to this thread maybe not that uncommon: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/...ts-replacement
Update:
In the meantime I called and talked to Seafoam technician who was said it's almost impossible not to have some water in the engine after a head gasket repair and he recommended six ounces of seafoam in the oil, drive around for a few days, drain and replace oil and filter
Just installed new lower left motor mount $13 DEA brand from Amazon...lol.
Update:
In the meantime I called and talked to Seafoam technician who was said it's almost impossible not to have some water in the engine after a head gasket repair and he recommended six ounces of seafoam in the oil, drive around for a few days, drain and replace oil and filter
Just installed new lower left motor mount $13 DEA brand from Amazon...lol.
Last edited by Wankenstein; Jun 17, 2015 at 03:19 PM.
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Maybe just a loose o2 sensor connection?
3) Oil burning from or near exhaust manifold..
there is a few ounces of water in oil filter. Could this be from water/coolant that seeped past the pistons prior to head gasket repair?
I wouldn't bother spending money on seafoam or any other product.
Just drive it a bit and change oil and filter again in the near future, it will accomplish the same IMO.
all my other mounts are hard rubber Anchor brand replacements.
motor mount $13 DEA brand from Amazon
motor mount $13 DEA brand from Amazon
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Yep..Hope it stays that way
Okay. Good to know
I remember you said that ,,just disturbing to see. I wish I had at least half your knowledge.. then I wouldn't be going so damn slow.
I'm not... after I posted that did some internet searching and most said it's just a waste of money.. just drive it out and oil/filter changes ..just as you're recommending.
I know.. The first few weeks after purchase we changed out the left upper and rear upper mount.. felt like it had a vacuum leak but, the positive side is my wallet wasn't leaking about $400 for OEM's. They'll soften over time..lol (doubt it)
Okay. Good to know
I know.. The first few weeks after purchase we changed out the left upper and rear upper mount.. felt like it had a vacuum leak but, the positive side is my wallet wasn't leaking about $400 for OEM's. They'll soften over time..lol (doubt it)
