marshallinux

I had to rebuild the manual transmission on my 98 civic LX and I'm putting everything back together. I haven't put back in the drive axles, etc and I've only put in a quart of MTF. I just noticed I can't shift the gear at all and the stick is very stiff.

When I put the transmission on the engine, I realized that the change rod was on the wrong side of the extension rod that was left attached to the chassis, so I had to disassemble the joint between the extension rod and the shift rod. So I'm a bit concerned that I messed up something...? Any ideas? Thank you!!!

ezone

You should have been checking that it actually shifted properly while you were building it on the bench.

Then you would know if it was "right" before it went into the car.

SO.....Did it shift properly before you bolted it in the car?

Disconnect the shifter rod. Can you shift the trans by hand (I'd probably use a screwdriver to move the nub).

marshallinux

No I didn't try to move the shifter before I bolted the transmission... I guess I need to take the transmission out again Too bad since it took me 2 days of trial & error to get that thing on the engine!

So I can't even move the shifter rod at all by hand. Does that mean the gear assembly is messed up? Is there a good pic / write-up on the gear assembly? Thank you!!!

ezone

No way for me to answer that. Obviously, something somewhere got messed up though.

When I assemble a trans, I check everything I possibly can before it goes back in the car. I hate doing a job over again. If I couldn't shift it by hand on the bench, it would have come apart again before it made it into the car.

A shop manual?

marshallinux

So I took the transmission out again and reassembled the gears & adjusted the interlock. I can shift into all gears by hand. However, as soon as I tighten the interlock guide bolt, I can't shift at all. Is this normal? Thanks!

ezone

I can't picture that in my head.
Can you post a pic of this so we know what you mean?

marshallinux

I hope you can see the pic. It's the bolt on the engine side of the transmission.

ezone

Pic fail.
EDIT: Blow that pic up


Trying to think of where that is.......


Back out so I can see more around it?

marshallinux

I didn't take a good one... Is that a good enough pic?
Edit: how about these?

ezone

Ok found it.

How near to the end of the threads is it when it works, and how close is it when it jams?

Is there a sealing washer missing from that? That might would let it go too deep and jam the mechanism if one is missing. I can't tell.
Parts doesn't show a separate seal/washer/spacer.

Otherwise, if all on the outside of the trans is proper then something is still wrong inside.

Your shift interlock mechanism (squared cup thing with a slot?) isn't lined up in the right spot for that bolt to go all the way in.

Is the trans still on the bench? Bright flashlight, look down in that hole and see what is wrong.



(I'm trying to see this from a pic of an exploded view. It's been a while since I had one of these apart.)

marshallinux

Are those new pics OK? I'm wondering if I need to have the other half of the case on? But if I put the other other half on, won't that mess up the interlock alignment with the shift forks?

marshallinux

It jams towards the very end of tightening that bolt.

ezone

Pull the bolt back out.
Look deep in that hole, see what is in the way. I think the mechanism needs to move to line up the slot for the bolt to go all the way in (assuming it's assembled properly inside there).

ezone

(I'm trying to see this from a pic of an exploded view. It's been a while since I had one of these apart.)

EDIT:
I'm assuming the tip of the bolt has to fit through a slot in the side of that square-ish interlock thing....and it just isn't lined up to the right spot yet.

marshallinux

I looked at that hole for a while and played around with the shift and now understand what you mean about the slot. I don't see how it could be misaligned though. I didn't touch the shift rod inside the transmission at all.

That said, I noticed that when I put a washer on that bolt and tighten it, it works. But I don't recall that there was a washer on that bolt...

ezone

You removed the bolt, things moved inside the trans. You moved other stuff that moved the interlock.
You just need to put it back.
It might only need to move 1mm or something, but it needs to move one direction or another to align the slot. Pocket screwdriver?


I HOPE you didn't bend or otherwise damage something by jamming the bolt in there.



Since I didn't find a washer in the parts catalog, I assume there isn't supposed to be one. Does it have an O ring seal or something?
No matter, if it didn't have a washer then don't put one in there. It ain't right and you will only trash something.
If you stick a washer on it, the interlock won't work right.

marshallinux

You were so right!
I took out the interlock so I can look at the other side of it, and I saw that it was slightly warped from when I tightened the interlock guide bolt without aligning the interlock correctly... another trip to the Dealer's tomorrow :/

marshallinux

So I received those new interlock & bolt, and I've put everything together inside the transmission. I have verified that I can shift to all gears with the interlock bolt in.

However, I can't get the snap ring to get in the groove on the bearing on the countershaft. I pushed the transmission housing on the clutch housing with the snap ring open (w/ a snap ring tool), but the snap ring sits just above the groove. The two housing are already flush with each other. Please see the pic.


Is this a major problem? If so, what I can do to fix this??? Thanks!

ezone

Ummmmm

How close or far is it from getting the snap ring into its groove?


Use some sort of hook to lift the bearing up.....

or turn the trans over and sort of jiggle or bang the whole thing on the bench so the weight of the shaft moves the bearing.

OTOH, this might indicate there is too much clearance somewhere since that shaft should have shoved its bearing all the way into that hole. Recheck?

Bearing installed the correct direction?

marshallinux

The bearing is definitely in the right direction and the snap ring is maybe 1 mm away from the groove. The bottom of the snap ring is almost above the groove. So close!
I think I'll try the gravity thing you suggested real quick

marshallinux

no luck with the gravity & banging on the transmission etc...
any suggestion for a hook-like tool I can use to lift up the bearing?
there is a couple mm of clearance b/w the bearing & the case, but it was like that when I took it apart. I think it's by design for the countershaft's position to be secured by the snap ring.

ezone

No tool suggestions other than improvise.
Channellocks?
Ladyfoot prybar?
I was thinking more of a method than any specific tool.

Don't FORCE it.
If it won't go, then you may need to take it apart again to figure out why.





????????

marshallinux

After some more gravity attacks and improvising a tool from a long bolt, a nut, a wrench, and a long socket and pulling the bearing groove through leverage, the gap between the snap ring and the groove is definitely less than 1 mm. Slightly more than half of the snap ring is hovering above the groove.

I think that if I dropped the transmission upside down from the second floor, the bearing would go "up" enough and let the snap ring snap in, but somehow I think that's a bad idea...

Then I tried tightening all the housing bolts (10 ft-lbs first then 20). Now the gap seems to be even less than 1/2 mm, but it just won't snap in there yet. At this point I'm thinking about just installing the transmission and the snap ring will find its way into the groove as I'm driving... what do you think?

The countershaft cannot shift any closer towards the engine b/c there is a bearing and an oil guide that it sits on. If the shaft were to shift away from the engine, it would definitely be caught by the snap ring (there is ~1-2 mm clearance on the other end between the case and the end of the shaft).

ezone

You know from two stories up
A Zenith makes a big boom



He!! no.

It's not supposed to be that difficult to get the snap ring engaged. Something isn't right.

marshallinux

I took the transmission apart again and measured all the clearances, some of them are right on the service limits (and one slightly over), but after some readjusting of the bearings, I got the snap ring to 0.1 mm away from being in the groove.

At this point, I thought there's no way I'm buying all the new parts for this transmission, so if it breaks, I'll just get a used one. So I installed the transmission anyway, and now thanks, ezone, for your help in figuring this out: I can shift gears like before with ease. Now I just have to put everything else back on the car...

suthe245

I know that this is a late reply but i just feel like i had to post lol. When i replaced the input shaft bearing in my 97 civic ex I had both of the same problems as you (not shifting once the tranny was in and the snap ring. It took me forever to figure out it was the interlock due the the lack of information on it. For the snap ring I eventually just turned the transmission upside down (clutch housing facing up) and just smashed it on the ground a few times. It may not have been the safest approach but it got the job done!