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its all about what you want. dont listen to anyone else because ive seen iasca competitions won with L7's so just because one person doesnt like them dont mean ****.

i personally own 4 12" L7's and 2 1250.1 amps and a 900.4 amp and have 4 8inch midbass(2 in each door) and kickers ss components and an audio control DQXS 30 band eq and much more, and i guarentee this system will sound better then half these schmucks that THINK they know what there talking about.

and jl audio w7 are nice, when they last, cause there defective rate is very high for that sub.

 
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sounds like you have sweet system! Obviously from your running you know SQ, I just get pissed when these guys come up with there own theory's and dont back it up with facts, For instance I have seen in two other threads about how we have to hook up our power ant. wire from the radio to our car even though our cars dont have power ant. I just luagh so far no one can come up with facts of why you do it, they say" its just makes it better". I dont have mine hooked up and I get fm/am just fine!

 
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sorry I thought if you were close I could get ya some L7's for 200.00.

 
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Really? Are you so sure of yourself? If so, please, please, go to www.elitecaraudio.com, and post your garbage about caps. Find a guy there named Richard Clark. Tell him your opinion on cap improving the supply power. Prove it to him. Fly out, and prove it to him. If the ticket costs you 4 grand, you prove it to him, he gives you 5 grand and you still profit. On top of his 5, I'll give you 5 as well. You think that you're certified and that you're all that. I gurantee you, give me the same budget you have for an install, and I'd blow your ***** out of the water. You come on here trying to be mr. e-thug, that's not going to fly. Half of the opinions you give here are not fact based, or your recommendations are based on things you install, the majority of which are all because they're mainstream brands. I promise you, I've forgotten more things than you know, son. Run along back to your "shop" and keep ripping kids out of their money. It'll come around one day.

 
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i am not here to argue, i am just stating my opinion.

i beleive it is common sense that a capacitor does NOT prevent/reduce strain on the electricals, but more likely to add more stress/strain to the electrical system. think about it, the only connection the cap has is taking power from the battery and transferring it to the amp when needed through the power wire; thats it. thus, that results in less dimming and great advantages to reach that 14.4v rating for the amps full potential. some claimed better spl, but thats technically the same because your reaching the amps highest voltage potential. so if your running 1000rms with no cap and lights dim, your definately not going to achieve that 1000rms. lets say you hook up a 1 fared cap, your changes to achieve 1000rms is higher because your amp is given additional power storage (cap) when it needs it.


my conclusion: yes, adding a cap may "seem" like your electrical system is being less strained. but in the long run, it isnt. it is gonna crap out on you quicker as if you didnt have a cap in the first place. my .02


please correct me if i dont got it down correctly?





to the thread starter, sorry for off topic but the L5 and L7 have somewhat advantages. it depends what you expect from them. if your a starter and just want loud bass and be heard, the L5 will do. however, the L7 will always be better in almost every aspect of the L5. so if the $50-$100 is worth more for the extra features, go for it. if your just on a budget and seeking bass, the L5 will do.

think about resell value as well
be sure to look into the 05 models, not the old ones.

 
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Bah forget it, preaching to the chior..

 
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Prove your point with fact, if you're so certain that your right. I'm willing to bet you believe a cap has to charge for 20 minutes or however long it says too right? I want cold hard facts to back your claim.

Yes, putting a cap does provide more strain on the battery, as it's one more thing the electrical system has to run. That's simple logistics.

 
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ex_03 im on ur side here. i was talking to my electrical teacher of automotive electricity classes the other day, he has been teaching this for 38 years and he keeps himself up on it. he said that although the system will run without a cap, you should have one it allows everything to work how it should and what not, he got into a ton of details and explaining with math and whatnot but i wasnt exactly taking notes so dont ask for specifics

 
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one L7 15 going to be hell of louder then L5 15.

 
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kicker kicks i have one

 
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Yea thats all I have ever stated, It helps an electrical system becuase an amp will draw off of the cap first becuase its closer than the battery, However I do not reccomend using a cap for spl cars, becuase your amps will need to draw directly off the battery caps just simply do not have the voltage that your battery with alternater will have. Yes that means even my 15 farad alumapro cap. I simply will not argue with someone who is convinced of something, its like trying to tell someone there is a god who doesnt believe there is. I believe caps work for certain situations, not all. I told hatfield to buy all his stuff, install it and if there is a need buy the cheapest thing first its common sense. But to a backyard installer who has been lucky a few times they'll clame you dont need one. I dont need to prove they work I believe they do, You need to prove they dont work at all! And as for the shop thing I knew you would say that becuase its classic of your guys arguement, Claim that Im trying to sell something! I got of retail/install 4 years ago, It took me 13 years to relize that there is no money in that industry unless you own a shop! I dont mean to affend any pro installers here, I just think its a waste of career!. And as for adire and infinity its my opinion there garbage total munkey turds I wouldnt give that crap away!!! I now work in IT anyway let me know what guys can prove by running tests or something, Dont just come up with conjecture its meaningless. Prove your case by running tests, Hint:
Use a spectrum analyzer and show the gains without a cap or show the loss with a cap. If you dont have access to an analyzer, use a DMM and go for voltage, show pics. And make sure that they are clear so we can see what you have hooked up! Then I will bow down!

Ps. The reason why you wouldnt need a cap with JL amps is they are all class D. Im assuming thats what your running popcorn? At least thats what your profile says?

 
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hmmmm, i think you misunderstood me when i said "im on ur side here" .....i wouldnt think theyres more than one way to take that but it seems in ur post your accusing me of contradicting you.

 
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Also nicrom ask your teacher if he is familar with tesla's work on air resnant coils? Ask him about capacitors used in those situations, as well as power stations in the city. let me know what he says.thanks!

 
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well i know people are gonna call BS on me but i see the guy occasionally on fridays because i had him last semester (when we talked about this stuff) and since there were alot of students they brought in another teacher and this guy is a moron he can barely get through a sentence without double checking in the book if hes right.

what are they? and whos tesla?

 
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^^^No I meant that all for popcorn, not you! sorry for the misunderstanding.

 
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Ok, I posted a thread titles "The Truth About Caps" abuot 5 minutes ago. It shows you, exactly, how caps are pretty much worthless in supplying voltage. They work, for about a millisecond. Do your eyes pick up that millisecond? The money best spent is for a guranteed solution, wouldn't you agree? Can you gurantee that a cap will work for everyone? Can you gurantee that your cap will work in any situation? No, because, the truth is, they don't always work to combat dimming, voltage dips, etc. Truth is, they're more of a cash cow for car audio manufacturers than anything else ever made. They aren't a solution that works regardless of situation. The big 3, battery, and alternator works, every time, regardless of situation. That's my point.

Yes, I run all JL amps.

 
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I said they are no good for spl, for the fact that they do nothing for voltage, I have never stated that they do. I have only stated that they help with power, they store it tempararly and release when the amp pulls off of it! I still have no idea why you jumped in here and started a new discussion?

A stock alternater and battery may not always work when you add a ton of 12volt to the mix. I have posted pics of my probe here where I have 4 punch 1000's on 8 12's with 6 deep cycles on the stock alterneter no cap, worked fine becuase of the extra batterys. But from what your saying you can add as many amps as you want and the stock electrical will handle it all day, If not then the first thing you do is get your alternater rewired? Or add a yellow top in the trunk?

The rule of thumb for most people is go cheapest first. Thats why I say use a cap if you need to. But to always determine that thats the problem.

 
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You're saying the you go cheapest first no? If you're going cheapest first, then the Big 3 would be the place to start. Then, the next thing that would have a guranteed impact on electrical, would be a new battery. Lastly would be an alternator.

Where did I say that you could run anything off the stock electrical. At a certain point you have to upgrade the stock electrical. I've had 1450 watts personally on mine is the highest I can remember at one time. Others have had upwards of 2Kw on stock electrical. I never even had a flutter. I have now upgraded to an optima redtop up front and removed the yellow top I had in the trunk. I also have done the big 3. My lights haven't flickered or anything, so I'm still running the stock alternator.

 
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whats the big 3

 
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The Big 3 wires. As I'm too lazy to type it out, here's a cut and paste frmo sounddomain.com (it's on here somewhere, but our search feature sucks)
I'll post the URL as well, as it includes pics too...
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/u...=5;t=007801;p=


SCRIPT:
As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:

1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system

So for those of you looking for a cheap and easy way to upgrade your system and help out your electrical system without adding a high output alternator or an aftermarket battery, this is the modification for you. If you have heavy dimming or are getting large voltage drops during loud bass hits, but you don't have the money to spend on a high output alternator or a battery, upgrading your vehicle's "Big 3" will usually help to reduce and sometimes even eliminate the problems. So without further ado, the "Big 3" wires are:

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine

Now, I suppose it would help if I explained what each of these wires does, and to do that I would like to paraphrase an explanation by IMTfox from a while ago: Think of your vehicle's charging system as two different circuits, one consisting of your amplifier and your battery, and the other consisting of your alternator and your battery. The current in your electrical system flows from your positive battery terminal to your amp, from your amp's ground to the chassis, and then from the chassis back to the negative battery terminal. But how does it get to the positive terminal in the first place? That's where the alternator comes in. Current in the second circuit flows from your alternator's positive post to the battery's positive terminal, then from the battery's negative terminal to the chassis, and from the chassis back to the block, which happens to be the grounding point for your alternator.

So, from your battery, you have the power wire going to the power terminal on your amplifier and then your amplifier is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle. From here the current needs a way to get back to the negative battery terminal, and that way is through the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire. Upgrading this wire will "upgrade" the circuit between your battery and your amp by giving the current a larger path to flow through to get back to the battery.

Now, think of your alternator as the battery and your battery as the amp. From the positive post on your alternator, you have the second of the "Big 3," the alternator to battery positive wire supplying "power" to your battery. From there the battery, just like your amp, is grounded to the chassis through the wire mentioned in the previous paragraph. Again, the current needs a way to get from the chassis back to the alternator's "negative terminal" and that way is through the last of the "Big 3," the chassis to engine wire. Since your alternator is most likely mounted to your engine block using a metal or conductive mounting bracket, you can simply add your new wire from the chassis to one of the mounting posts for the alternator. Upgrading these two wires will "upgrade" the circuit between your alternator and your battery, again giving the current a larger path to flow through.

----------------------------------------------

Now that you understand exactly what the "Big 3" do, it's time to upgrade them to a larger gauge wire. You can use regular power wire from installing your car audio equipment, ring terminals, and crimping equipment just the same as you would for any other install. Let's start with the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire:

1) Disconnect your battery's negative terminal and get the stock wiring out of the way. You might have to cut it and crimp a new ring terminal onto it. I found it helpful to use aftermarket battery terminals with multiple ports on them also.

2) Scrape away the paint and drill the hole for your connection of the larger wire, or connect it to the stock grounding point. Either way you do it, make sure it is bare chassis metal, not covered by paint, and that the connection is as tight and secure as possible:





3) Secure the new wire to the chassis and reconnect the vehicle's stock chassis ground, but DON'T reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal yet! You may find it helpful to cover the negative battery terminal with a cloth or other non-conductive material and just lay the terminal on it until you're ready to reconnect it later.

Moving on to the next of the "Big 3," let's upgrade the alternator to battery positive wire:

4) Locate the vehicle's alternator and look for a terminal post connected to it. The post shouldn't be hard to find. It should have only one wire connected to it, and it should lead to the positive terminal on the battery, possibly through the fuse box.



5) Disconnect the stock alternator to battery positive wire from the positive post and connect it to the post again with the new wire added.

6) Run the wire either through your fuse box if applicable or through a fuse. The fuse should be sized to match the max ampacity of your wire, not the output capability of your alternator. As you can see I just went through the fuse box, so my upgrade is probably not making as much of a difference as it could if it were fused externally, but my alternator is capable of withstanding the draws anyway so I'm not particularly worried about it. If I ever begin to see a problem w/ current draws, I will probably fuse the wire externally with a 300A or so fuse...

7) From the fuse, connect the wire to the positive terminal on your battery, again, leaving the stock wiring connected when you're done. The picture below shows the alternator to battery positive wire run from the alternator through my fuse box to the positive battery terminal.



Last, let's move to the chassis to engine wire: (Again, because your alternator is grounded to the block, all you need to do is find a bolt somewhere on the block and connect it to the chassis. The alternator's mounting bracket is usually a good place to find these bolts).

8) Again, either drill a new hole or connect this wire to the stock chassis ground. From the chassis ground, run the wire back to one of the mounting posts for the alternator (or to a bolt on the engine block).



9) That's it! You're done. Reconnect the vehicle's negative battery terminal and check out the difference! Below is a shot of the "Big 3" upgraded in my car. The other wire you see coming out of the battery's positive terminal is obviously my amp's power wire.



----------------------------------------------

Helpful hints:

1) Leave the stock wiring attached after you're done. Don't replace the stock wiring, add onto it. Current will take the path of least resistance anyway, so replacing the stock wire will only make more work for yourself.

2) When fusing your alternator to battery positive wire, fuse it toward the battery end of the wire. As IMTfox points out later in this thread, the battery will explode if it's overloaded, while the alternator will only burn out its regulator which won't cause much damage except to the alternator itself. Exploding batteries are no fun!

3) When crimping large gauge terminals for 1/0awg and sometimes even 4awg, a vice works well. Crimp one side of the terminal at a time, creating an overlapping edge. Put the boot around this and then wrap it in electrical tape if you want. the most secure connections will occur in this way.





4) Lastly, prepare all your materials and tools BEFORE you are ready to upgrade. Know what you are doing before you start so you can be done as quick as possible. The majority of vehicles have computers that will reset after the battery is disconnected for a long time and they can cause older vehicles to do strange things if they reset.

 
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dont waste your money on Kicker, been there used that. i love JL, once a user always a user. 1st system was a JL, then got a L7 setup, missed the JLs, then got a 13W7, sooo glad i went back...get a W7, you wont regret it!

 
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This is from your boy, Now what?

Richard Clark
Moderator
Member # 8

posteddocument.write(timestamp(new Date(2004,5,9,10,48,0), dfrm, tfrm, 0, 0, 0, 0)); June 09, 2004 10:48 AMJune 09, 2004 10:48 AM i can easily see how a couple "good quality" caps could help to protect against headlight dimming-------where in the cap lessons is there anything that would imply that it couldn't??????..............RC


So he say's they help in protecting against dimming!. Look at the signature RC (Richard Clark)???

 
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Read retard. He never says they won't help dimming. That's all they'll help. Go back to your "shop". Rape some more kids out of money, big boys are talking in here, and you obviously don'tknow how to read and understand. High school kids...

 
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Your the one who came in here screaming "b..u..l..l..s..h..i..t" So I'll pay you 5,000.00 monkey a..s..s if you can find in any of my threads where i stated that caps help voltage. You must be smoking something good, Becuase you came into this thread started a whole arguement for nothing! Man...kids...LOL. And for the last time read my post monkey I work in IT, I got out of installing becuase it's a loser career! Great hobby, bad career choice dumb A..s..s.

And another thing jonny FFn expert would you like to explain to everyone where the power ant. wire goes in our cars? and why excactly we have to hook it up as you stated in other threads?
Learn some s..h..i..t. then come in guns a blazing. Becuase right now you look pretty stupid..LMAO