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Jul 12, 2015

#61

ezone

If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one

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Re: Spark Plugs

I don't have sufficient info to make an evaluation, as I am not located in either of those countries.

I suppose if you popped a tub of popcorn then carried it from one country to the other, it would be cold by the time you got to the destination.

Jul 12, 2015

#62

MN-02-CivicEx

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezone

Toyota/Lexus used that number (PK16TR11), and they have double ground electrodes. Maybe others used them too, but not Honda automobiles.

Lexus is a Cooler Car than the Civic. It's my opinion that Toyota Lexus owners in my neighborhood aren't as concerned about getting the most bang for their buck with plugs having the greatest omni-directional expansion rate that's possible. However, when it comes to the greatest omni-directional expansion rate of a kernel of popcorn my Lexus neighbors will settle for nothing but the best.

Jul 12, 2015

#63

ezone

If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Toyota Lexus owners in my neighborhood

80% of Lexus owners would stare at you like you have 3 heads if you tell them it's just a damn Toyota.

Been there, done that.
Some reactions are quite humorous to me.

Quote:

getting the most bang for their buck with plugs having the greatest omni-directional expansion rate that's possible.

Um, suuuure.

Jul 12, 2015

#64

MN-02-CivicEx

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIPSAW

My brain is tired

That happens to the Best of Us. Just as long as your Gray Matter isn't retired. DNA research suggests that the human brain was originally designed to function for 1000 years, without any quenching of its electrical spark. Anyway, just wanted to inform you that Honda's 3rd Generation (2007-2011) Indy H17R-HI11R Power Plant didn't use Denso plugs, but instead used NGK plugs.

Quote:

The HI7R-HI11R was a highly-successful engine with 86 pole positions, fastest laps and wins respectively including 2008 Nikon Indy 300 exhibition race and 5 Indianapolis 500s. Due to the IndyCar Series chassis and engine development freeze beginning in 2008, IndyCar Series kept the Honda HI7R-HI11R model until 2011 season for cost reasons.

During that time, since the IndyCar Series had only one engine manufacturer, Honda focused on minimizing engine failure and minimizing costs instead of defeating rivals. As such, the engines were moderately de-tuned. The engines proved themselves to be quite durable. There had been no engine failures at Indy from 2006 to 2010, which also lowered the number of crashes. Most of the engines, including those used for the Indy 500, were used for multiple races and were intended to last 1,200 miles (1,931 kilometers) between rebuilds. The Honda engines were only available via lease arrangement from Honda, which, for the 2010 full season, cost $935,000 U.S. per season, per car.

The NGK plugs is this Behemoth were the first to employ a true omni-directional spark that we now know as "flame kernel expansion" having eliminated any "quenching" of fire power. This revolutionary technological advancement was the primary reason for better fuel economy than their competition, "as fuel is burned more efficiently with each piston firing."

However, just like with NASA and the initial R&D cost of TANG, so too was the exorbitant R&D costs of the first NGK "unquenchable" plugs firing each piston more efficiently than ever before.

Last edited by MN-02-CivicEx; Jul 12, 2015 at 09:53 PM. Reason: Brain Designed To Be Good For One Thousand Years

Jul 13, 2015

#65

RIPSAW

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezone

80% of Lexus owners would stare at you like you have 3 heads if you tell them it's just a damn Toyota.

You are suppose to pat them on the back and hand them Hersey Kisses like the do at the Mercedes dealership.

Jul 13, 2015

#66

MN-02-CivicEx

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezone

You better go back and figure out who said that first, it wasn't me. I'd break it off using an Ingersoll 1/2 inch drive impact gun.

Quite extensive research was necessary before uncovering the fact that it was mikey1 and You (not me) that recommended the "6 foot" extension in this thread ... (post #23) …
"meh.....if it was me, i would put an 18 inch breaker bar on it, slip my 6 foot steel pipe over the breaker bar, give her hell and hope for the best" (mikey1)

However, I counter punched mikey1's over-reactionary method by NOT using a 6 foot steel pipe over the breaker bar ... (post #30) …
"IF invariably the end result is that the threads are stripped one way or another so then WHY not remove the plug when the engine is warm/hot with just an 18" Breaker Bar (without the 6' metal pipe extension)" (MN-04-CivicEx)

However, to my utter dismay, it was YOU of all persons that actually seconded mikey1’s suggestion with your opinion ... (post#32) ...
"The 6 foot cheater pipe makes stripping or breaking it nearly effortless?" (ezone)

Ingrid thought such dramatic action by You and mikey1 was over-reactionary ... (post #33) ...
"Maybe the tool of choice for some Honda Mechanics, but Ingrid from Scandia, MN says she can free it easily with a 25 inch Breaker Bar" (Ingrid)

Then again you countered with the following laughable suggestion ... (post #41) ...
"Just for laughs, try some brake fluid? It can work magic on steel, but I'm not sure how well it works on Aluminum though" (ezone)

Your previous post in another thread is not the most accurate … they were thee *original plugs.

Quote:

The USA parts catalog lists PKJ20CR-M11 for the Denso choice 2001-05 for all trims,
Also shows PZFR6F-11 in NGK for DX and LX trims.

So....I think your PK16 plugs were not original. (ezone)

No one ever suggested that the "PK16" were "originally" installed in the 2002 Civic Ex (silly boy). The website you may have used HondaPartsCheap.com does not take into consideration that the EX engine is not the same engine as in the DX and LX. Thus the reason why my 2002 Civic EX assembled in Marysville, OH was installed with a PKJ20CR-L11, NOT PKJ20CR-M11 Denso plugs as you surmise.

V-TEC ~ D17A2 ... *PKJ20CR-L11
2001–2005 Honda Civic EX (US only ~ Marysville, OH)
Displacement: 1,668 cc (101.8 cu in)
Compression: 9.9:1
Power (North America): 127 hp (95 kW; 129 PS) at 6,300 rpm

V-TEC D17A1 ... PKJ20CR-M11
2001–2005 Honda Civic DX/LX
Displacement : 1,668 cc (101.8 cu in)
Compression : 9.5:1
Power : 120hp (85.8 kW, 117 PS) at 6,100 rpm

... the PKJ20CR-L11 is the exact fit for my 2002 Civic Ex ...
(according to this more reliable source)

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/d...ns_exhaust_eez

Last edited by MN-02-CivicEx; Jul 13, 2015 at 03:11 PM.

Jul 13, 2015

#67

mikey1

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by MN-02-CivicEx

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Quite extensive research was necessary before uncovering the fact that it was mikey1 and You (not me) that recommended the "6 foot" extension in this thread ... (post #23) …
"meh.....if it was me, i would put an 18 inch breaker bar on it, slip my 6 foot steel pipe over the breaker bar, give her hell and hope for the best" (mikey1)

However, I counter punched mikey1's over-reactionary method by NOT using a 6 foot steel pipe over the breaker bar ... (post #30) …
"IF invariably the end result is that the threads are stripped one way or another so then WHY not remove the plug when the engine is warm/hot with just an 18" Breaker Bar (without the 6' metal pipe extension)" (MN-04-CivicEx)

However, to my utter dismay, it was YOU of all persons that actually seconded mikey1’s suggestion with your opinion ... (post#32) ...
"The 6 foot cheater pipe makes stripping or breaking it nearly effortless?" (ezone)

Ingrid thought such dramatic action by You and mikey1 was over-reactionary ... (post #33) ...
"Maybe the tool of choice for some Honda Mechanics, but Ingrid from Scandia, MN says she can free it easily with a 25 inch Breaker Bar" (Ingrid)

Then again you countered with the following laughable suggestion ... (post #41) ...
"Just for laughs, try some brake fluid? It can work magic on steel, but I'm not sure how well it works on Aluminum though" (ezone)

Your previous post in another thread is not the most accurate … as they were original

The website you may have used HondaPartsCheap.com does not take into consideration that the EX engine is not the same engine as in the DX and LX. Thus the reason why my 2002 Civic EX assembled in Marysville, OH was installed with a PKJ20CR-L11, NOT PKJ20CR-M11 Denso plugs as you surmise.

V-TEC ~ D17A2 ... PKJ20CR-L11
2001–2005 Honda Civic EX (US only ~ Marysville, OH)
Displacement: 1,668 cc (101.8 cu in)
Compression: 9.9:1
Power (North America): 127 hp (95 kW; 129 PS) at 6,300 rpm

V-TEC D17A1 ... PKJ20CR-M11
2001–2005 Honda Civic DX/LX
Displacement : 1,668 cc (101.8 cu in)
Compression : 9.5:1
Power : 120hp (85.8 kW, 117 PS) at 6,100 rpm

... the PKJ20CR-L11 is the exact fit for my 2002 Civic Ex ...
(according to this more reliable source)
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/d...ns_exhaust_eez

Jul 13, 2015

#68

MN-02-CivicEx

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Re: Spark Plugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezone

L
--- For CVCC, with a withdrawn insulator
--- 3.5mm projected insulator for motorcycles
--- Withdrawn insulator for motorcycles
--- Thin center electrode for motorcycles
--- Heat resistant ground electrode

M
---Larger ground electrode

As can be seen from the previously attached photos of my 3 PKJ20CR-L11 plugs they have as large of a "heat resistant" ground electrode as standard auto plugs. Just because DENSO gives the impression that the plug is a fit for Motorcycles should not rule out that it isn't also a "fit" for ALL 2002 1.7L Honda Civics as recommended by Advance Auto Parts now that the inventory of PKJ20CR-M11 is apparently drying up.
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/d...ns_exhaust_eez

After checking different websites it appears that the Denso PKJ20CR-M11 (part #12290-PGE-A01) may have originally been installed in every 2002 Civic Model except the Marysville, OH 2002 Civic EX V-TEC - D17A2 engine. Comparing sites seem to suggest that the PKJ20CR-L11 is also good for every other 1.7L Civic model now that PKJ20CR-M11 are hard to find. Have not found a website recommending that the PKJ20CR-M11 was ever recommended for the Marysville, Civic Ex V-TEC D17A2 engine. The PKJ20CR-M11 (4 digit #unkown) isn't even found in the VERY extensive list of Denso plugs at: E3 PERFORMANCE UPGRADE AUTO CROSSOVER CHART ... suggesting the inventory of PKJ20CR-M11 is drying up being replaced by the SKJ20DR-M11.
http://e3sparkplugs.com/theme/pdf/autocross.pdf

< Thread Dia x Hex Size > (mm)

L ---- 18 x 22.2 (Reach: 12mm)
M --- 18 x 25.4 (Reach: 12mm)

Denso PKJ20CR-L11 (part #3247) Double Platinum Spark Plug
(originally installed in Marysville, OH ~ 02 Civic Ex)
Denso SKJ20DR-M11 (part #3377) Iridium Spark Plug
(replacement for PKJ20CR-L11 and PKJ20CR-M11)

They both have the same heat range of 20, and would think the same reach (12mm), although there seems to be conflicting info at the following website ... 11.2mm (L) vs 8.6mm (M) ... http://www.globaldenso.com/en/produc...pec/index.html