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did you dyno it before you put the mods on?

 
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yeah, i dynoed prolly 5 times total when i was into engine modding. only gained a few extra hp playing with cam timing and vafc too. finally i gave up lol. wasnt worth the trouble. the most i ever got on my auto was 104whp with pnp head, i/h/e, cam gear, vafcII, and ported TB all tuned. then headgasket blew a year later, so i went back to stock head and now i just have i/h/e.

 
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i know an lx 5spd that has i/h/e with a tune that is making around 123whp.. tuned i dont know with what though.. i want to find out.. and you got a t/b bored to what size in mm?? or actually.. from what size to what size..

 
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for the reccord i made 115 HP 112 WTQ with a VAFC2 and i/h/e on an 02 EX 5 speed.

i think your 123 HP is way off

 
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the maxbore.com port job. had to take that off too cause i couldnt figure out the cel for tps sensor voltage being too high. and when it happened the trans would stop shifting so it was a challenge to bring it home.

 
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that number is not my hp number and is what i heard. i will try to find out more.. but then again vafc2 is not the best thing to tune with either

 
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but do you remeber what they bored it to?

 
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i understand

 
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hmm gonna have to dig up really old threads. maybe its still around here.

Stock TB
-top diameter 60mm
-bottom diameter 58mm

Ported
-top 63mm
-bottom 60mm

 
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hmmmm
123 hp is probably possible but my guess would be that it would of had to of been done on DynaPacks they are notorious for reading high and it would have possibly had to have a tune on a standalone like k-pro or AEM EMS

Also it might just be me but IMO I think are TB is pretty big at least for a civic

Also there is another company that makes viscous harmonic dampeners crank pulley and they specialize in the import industry mostly hondas I think. I have it written down some were back at home so I will try to dig that up tonight

 
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I made 107hp and 107.7tq on a dynojet over the summer... 01 MT LX with aem v2 and stock ex header and downpipe, dc sports tcs catback.

Please do dig it up!

 
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good to know.. do you still have the ported one or you sold it?

 
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not bad... i must be somewhere around there.. i think when i get a new intake manifold im going to get piping very similar to that design..



do you think we can use the imrc system on our cars? it comes off the cr-v.. its kind of like vtec except to produce torque.. interesting..

and when tuning its better to have a car running on open loop mode correct? because i found out that when we 1st start our cars(when it is warming up) it runs on open loop mode and was wondering there is a way to keep it like that.. just an idea..

 
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ported one is gone, im sure it couldve worked if i was able to readjust the tps, but i didnt have the patience at the time. also the idle screw adjustment becomes useless on the ported version, since the plate is bigger. so maybe thats one reason.

 
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SLEEVING

So what about sleeving the block? With increased compression, to say maybe 14:1, (I'm just saying a high compression for argumentative purposes- there is no way I could run that high reliably) would that warrant sleeving the block? Is there any information out there on aluminum cylinder sidewall thickness and compression/RPM's vs reliability and how long it might last??

I know sleeves arent cheap, and the labor makes it even more expensive, but honestly there is no point in building a motor and then having the bottom end give out on you down the line.

What issues would arise without sleeving? What about block guards- I've heard some debate but would they do anything in this situation?

 
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sorry to go off topic... but when you get a stage 1 or 2 cam does it open the valves more to get more air or does it just overlap?

and 1 other question when you set the valve clearance can you set it to open up more or will you hit the piston? and if you can open it up more by how much can you do it?

 
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i think^

1) open more

2) no you cant open it more

 
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Look at the specs the stage 2 has higher lift and longer duration. The valve overlap creates the rough idle but helps during high rpms. You MUST follow the specs for the valve clearances or you'll ruin your head .06 intake .08 exhaust, stock I believe is .07-.09 intake and .09-.11 exhaust.

 
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stay away from block guard, its crap. you want to do sleeves to be on the careful side. you only wanna build it once. it would suck if you had piston walk and had to open everything up to fix again.

 
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ok here is what I know on the sleeving matter I had a talk a while back with my guy that does my machine work for me at a machine shop nearby my house.

Sleeveing is a pain my guy(bob) has done it before and he hates it not the actual sleeves but the process of putting them in properly is a pain. Bob charges a $200 a sleeve just to stick the sleeve in that does not include the price of the sleeve.

You have to bore out the old sleeve, heat the block up before you can press in the new sleeve, press it in hot let it cool at a controlled rate, weld the top in to make sure it doesn't go anywhere (i think he cold weld's it, not sure), then bore/hone the cylinder out to the right size and make sure it's true, and you have to deck the block to make sure it completely flat. That $200 only covers one sleeve being pressed in it does not cover boring and honing the cylinders, decking the block, or the actual sleeve, plus if you take your block in there your probably going to wanna hot tank also before everything. So you are looking at somewhere around $1,500 to $2,000 to sleeve a block properly. Bob suggestion was screw sleeving just go out and buy a dart block it's cheaper and easier, of course you can't buy a D17 dart block (were also talking about sleeving b-series that's were the dart block came into play)

They can be great on some car like a daily driven turbo that puts out over 400 hp all the time but the main thing is that it just a waste of money to sleeve an N/A D17. I'm not try to put down the N/A guys cause I am one, but it just not worth it.

Lets say I did build a 14.1 compression ratio D17 first off it is possible to build and run a 14.1 I could possibly squeeze almost 16.1 I would have to run alcohol like they do in the top fuel dragster's and it would run like ****. But I think I can honestly say I don't think I would be worried about the sleeve in the stock block.

The reason being is that the sleeve is not going to be the first thing that fails in the motor. And if you do have it sleeved and the motor lets go you do have a better chance of the block staying in shape but a broken rod will still put a hole in the sleeve regadless. The first thing's you are probably going to run into is with that much comp. the pressure in the combustion chamber is going to be really and it's going to want to detonate but were running racing fuel so that doesn't matter, so the next thing is it's going to want to do is lift the head off with that much pressure. ARP rod bolts should fix that.

Next it's going to wanna spin really fast in order to make power at that comp. So you have to worry about your bearing's and the possibility that your oil pump is not going to be able to sustain long enough to keep oil to those bearing's. then you have to worry about rods bending, rod bolts stretching, piston rings frying, valve springs not being able to handle the load above 9500+ rpms, and I think the honda's run into a real problem with reversion around 10,000 rpm's.

Any of the things can go bad and at least a couple will if you were to build a motor like that but your stock sleeves will more than likely have caused none of that. If you could squeeze 375hp out of the d17 N/A I might think about it but I probably wouldn't until I started to squeeze out more than 400-425hp.

Also if you put in sleeves you lose the open deck design in doing so you also lose a lot of cooling especially towards the top of the cylinder, wich is were you want most of your cooling with an N/A car. The full on race N/A cars tend to have a very tight ring gap on the top ring on the piston which creates alot of heat up at the top of the sleeve, that needs to be cooled off. Turbo cars can run a looser ring gap up top so there is not as much heat so cooling of the upper portion of the sleeve is not as important as an N/A car.

With N/A you don't have to worry about boost spikes and other issues that could catch you off guard on a turbo If you build an N/A car right it can last a very long time and you don't have to worry about something sneaking up on you.

As for block Guards IMO I don't trust them they can be usefull if installed properly but I have heard to many stories of them pinching the pistons and doing bad stuff to your block. In my book they fall under the same category as the lightened crank pulley great idea but I don't think it works

P.S. sorry about the dampner crank pulley still searching for that

 
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^^ dammm! sorry about long post!

 
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Good info mang, long post but good read. +1.

 
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I agree and disagree with a few things. I am NOT running sleeves. If I don't need them at the power levels I am making, you don't need them on an na build.

As far as heat, cylidner temps in a turbo car are always going to be hotter than an na car at the same level (if tuned properly). You're not only heating the air by using exhaust gas to power the turbo but you're compressing it as well. Compressing air heats it up big time, especially when its being run through a hot turbo that's attached to the exhaust manifold.

 
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So to sum this stuff up... sleeving isn't worth it no matter what? Andyman has crazy power with a turbo and isn't using them, and they just aren't needed N/A? I've heard a lot of mixed reviews, with people wanting to "bullet proof" their block and all, and insisting that they are a good investment. But if you are going to destroy the block if it breaks, sleeves or not, wouldnt it just be better to buy a new block, than pay to get the sleeved block fixed?

 
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good points Andy

I was just throwing those hp #'s out just for the more conservative builder that wants to feel ultra safe. In all honesty I wouldn't sleeve a honda block it's too much money and a waste I can pick up a couple of extra blocks for that kinda price. And if I did have ridiculous amount of income I still wouldn't sleeve if I was pushing 475+ hp everything else in the motor is going to break before the sleeve lol.

Also sorry about the turbo I know my way around a turbo setup but for all practical purposes I am still a noob when it comes to turbo's.

 
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IMO yes it would be better just to get a new block, there are some things that can happen when you blow a motor that just aren't repairable. Like If you shove a rod through the side of the block.

 
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That's the thing to remember. If you aren't breaking 500whp+, you aren't coming cloe to high enough cylinder pressure to crack a sleeve. Let's say you're making 275 whp and you start detonating like mad, guess what, detonation isn't (in most cases) at that power level going to crack a sleeve either. It's going to destroy a piston and scar up the cylinder walls of your nice new 1k+ sleeves or send a rod through them. You can't "bulletproof" a block, things can break.

At this moment, I've been running about 15 psi with fuel issues for the past 9-ish months. Guess what, the motor is still in tact and it's a COMPLETELY STOCK bottom end. Stock pistons, stock rods, unmodified. And nothing has broken and the engine still takes a beating. At this boost level, I'm seeing roughly 300 whp, fyi. I would say that the only reason to even upgrade pistons and rods on a d17 is for compression ratio purposes, not even strength.

Most of our turbo guys don't even need pistons and rods, let alone sleeves. If I was going to shoot for right about 300 whp, I wouldn't waste money on pistons or rods.

 
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you have that much power running on stock pistons?? i thought you would HAVE to have low compression pistons to run that much boost.. i guess d17's are stronger then i thought... you are making 300 or 375whp??

but as for 14comp. ratio you have to also consider if you are going to be driving the car everyday because gas or alcohol is going to be alot of money.. i would say a streetable cr is 11 somthing.. and even then you will be using premium gas.. gas just keeps going up.. have to look at the long run too.

 
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Damn it. Don't tempt me to run the adjustment screw on my MBC out a little bit Andy....I do only have a piggyback.

 
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Look what I found, its pretty expensive, but I didnt know it existed at all. I never knew that Crower messed with the crank. Good to know. I sent a AIM msg to see if anyone ever bought it, but he was offline.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/9...-rods-etc.html

Heres a thread with some block work that I'll be taking a look at later today, I've read way too many threads so far this morning and wont be able to sit though this long one... heres the link for reference.
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...lock-pics.html