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Hey guys, so after a lot of reading I picked up a 19mm rsx-s rear sway bar and I have got to say it is one of the cheapest, most impoving, mod I have ever done. $45!!!! Anywho, I've been doing a lot of research and found a few people who recommended doing the front bar as well, not one from the rsx-s as it's not compatable. So my question is, do I really need it? If I should which should I go with? Also, will I need to align the front wheels after adding the front one? I have bone stock suspension and rims. Thanks!!

 
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its really personal preference regarding handling. some people remove threre front swaybar some people upgrade them so no you do not need a front sway.

 
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No need for an alignment after a front sway, but like lowlife said its up to you if you want to upgrade.

A front under brace would be more effective like a Sustec brace. Upper strut brace is nice also.

 
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What are the pros and cons to removing, upgrading, and leaving?

 
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the huge improvement you got from the rear sway bar will be diminished if you install a beefier front sway.
we do the rear to cure the understeer, characteristic to FWD cars. if you do fronts, the balance will shift back to understeer.

you will be better getting a front strut tower brace, they make the steering feel much better.

 
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^ that sums it up.

Not really a matter of pros and cons as it is how you want the car to react when in a corner. Do you want more oversteer, more understeer, or a more neutral feeling.

The same thing can be accomplished with tire pressures and alignment specs. I run a higher pressure in the rear to allow the tires to "break loose" easier when braking into a corner. I also run less negative camber in the rear to allow the back to "break loose" easier. Sway bars help get bigger results.

 
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I'd like to keep it more neutral. Just excellent handling all around. I haven't really ripped around too many corners since the upgrade since my rear tires are close to bald. Really not a huge fan of drifting on back roads. I can take an on ramp at 80mph though, found that out the other night. I had to take it in really tight though. How do you tell between under and over steer?

 
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Bald tires are great for dry roads, just be careful in the rain.

With over steer you will feel the back of the car try to come around you.

With under steer the front of the car will plow or push through the corner.

Neutral the car does neither of these and rotates around the center of the car.

 
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Well then I think I have oversteer. I always have this erie feeling the back end is just going to fly out and throw me into a tree lol. Which is best for a DD that likes to fly down back roads? I'm assuming neutral so it takes it smooth but doesn't risk rear end brake??

 
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whichever you feels more confident.
my civic is actually much more understeering than my miatas can be (actually they close to neutral) and i run the progress 24mm rear and sometimes the front removed.
I don't think yours would be any more oversteering than mine (mine lifts rear wheel - not as much as an older 95 would, mind you).

honestly? leave front sway as is, don't get front strut brace yet, aim for new tires first.

 
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The tires should be in tomorrow and installed thursday. I run Hancook Optimo h747 on mine, ive gotten the best longevity out of them(60k+ miles) and they handle well too. I really don't feel like I need to do anything else, it was more just a question of would it be a good idea. Like doing an oil change but leaving the filter. Probably a good idea to change them both lol. I have one more question and this is kinda off topic, but has to do with suspension set ups. I read on another forum that you do not actually need a camber kit when dropping your ride, you just need to adjust the toe back to, or as close to, factory spec. The reason I upgraded the sway bar is because I plan on upgrading my struts to Tein street BASIS coilovers eventually and it was recommended that the upgrade was a good stand alone and companion modification. The BASIS' that I'd be going with is the second model, with the adjustable dampening, and it drops about 1.5". So since I'd be dropping like $2000 on suspension it would be nice to save a bit on other stuff.

 
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OP

I currently have a front and rear sway bar.., and a strut tower brace

Biggest handling improvement came from installing both sway bars

Strut tower made a smidgen of handling improvement - but I installed it for other (torque) reasons

Have not tried the Sustec brace GolNat suggests - but thinking strongly of doing so


I've tried back only / and front only configurations

Imo.., go with both a front and rear sway bar - you'll like the results

And - go with the largest diameter front you can find - the wimpy stock diameter ones (front and/ or back) are useless


You will also need better (beefier) links.., and use large flat washers on both sides.., and both ends of the links (8 washers in all)

Also upgrade all mounting hdwr (bolts/ nuts) to grade 8... and use large washers on these

Then really tighten all bolts and link nuts down


Otherwise it will start clunking..., and annoying the heck out of you - I know this



Done correctly - the car will turn sharply and remain flat (neutral)


Ghost

 
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You don't ever "need" a camber kit. You can slam any car down and have the camber at -6 if you want. This will just increase tire wear and give poor driving/handling characteristics. The benefit of having a camber kit is that it allows you to return the car to factory settings or it allows you to tune the suspension to your liking. I have a camber kit but I don't use it to return the car to factory specs since I run more negative camber then factory specs on purpose. If I did't have the camber kit then I would be running more camber then I would like. After about an inch of drop the rear camber starts to go a little more negative then what spec allows. Not a big deal if you are a little out of spec but the lower you go the more negative your camber will go. The front actually doesn't need a camber kit just the rear. If your getting coilovers then you can always put them on, see how the camber is and raise the car back up until you get a kit if you don't like where the camber is at.

For end links I run Heim Joints, like these:



I did have a problem with my old ones rusting out, but I think I have solved that with some anti rust spray. Moog makes some beefy end links that should hold up to lots of abuse.

 
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Ghost, I found a 25mm front sway bar for like 75, I think it's just the bar though not the hardware. Where would I get it? I'll be super honest, when I first put it on, I put it upside down...Man was the ride difference noticeable...

GolNat, with stock rims and Hankook h747 195/60R15 tires, would adjusting the toe be enough if I wanted it to run pretty close to flat? To be clearer, does adjusting the toe, affect camber?

 
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End links;

Moog (you can go more high dollar… and/ or even get adjustable – but Moog’s work just fine) They even have zerks for greasing them

Word of caution.., do not buy the “heavy duty” from ebay – I did… and the seller even had the right picture – ended up they were not the correct ones


Bushings;

Energy suspension (red or black are essentially the same – just that black has more graphite impregnated for self lubrication

Be sure to slap some anti-seize on them as you install - no matter the color


Mounting brackets…, options;

Hopefully the bar will come with the brackets

If not

Identify the bar manufacture and see if they sell just the brackets

If not

Dealership (they can’t be that much)

If not

Junkyard (this is the fun option as you may see something else you want)

If not

Make some (need the tools to bend & shape / cut / drill metal though)


Note - front brackets are little different from the back (be sure to get the correct ones)


Also..., don’t be remiss and forgo the flat washers – they'll make all the different in robustness..., performance.., and eliminating the need to re-tighten every few weeks

hth




We've all done.., and I still do - things like this


Ghost

 
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Ghost,

You are running north of 550 whp - don't you get too much traction loss in corner exit with front sway beefier?

Also, to be brutally honest? The front feels sloppier, but if you actually run the clock? Well, that feel is wrong.

In a 70 sec course, when I softened front shocks all the way to soft, I got 1 sec faster.
Once I removed the front endpoint,. Got 2 sec off on similar 70 sec course.
Having beefier front sway feels faster. Is it really faster? My experience with clocked course says no. It's actually slower. Not enough power going to the ground.

 
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Alright, thanks! It's gonna be a bit until I do the rest of the work, but it's good to know my options.

 
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Please permit me to correct this...

Yes..., I incorrectly claimed 555 WHP..., based on the first motor guy's unscrupulousness

====================

I've a new motor man now..., and a hellofa good one at that - imo


At this point in time - I only claim 482 WHP (but working on it)

Also at this point - I believe me claiming 555 WHP was straight up BS


My experience has been the opposite

And the driving conditions I'm basing this on are - street driving.., not track... in an 04...like the OP


eta - when running a track - it is extremely important to tune the suspension to that track - for optimal performance (whether the track straight or curved)



Ghost

 
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Adjusting the camber affects the toe but adjusting the toe does not effect the camber. You get your camber set first then adjust your toe. Toe is very important for tire wear!!

 
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Well get this, got the new tires on, they did an alignment check and I'm going to need one. BUT! I Can't do it until I replace one of my rims that is apparently twisted. Then! To top that, my car ended up falling off the jack stands yesterday so I have a feeling I'm really gonna need on now.

 
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M00n, good to know things are moving

Ghost,
thanks for clarification

 
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Moving yes, but I either need to get new fenders or repair the ones I have.

 
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Let's be Very Thankful no one's head under the car when it dumped

Fenders.., suspensions.., and the like.., can be repaired / replaced - a flattened head - not so much


A valuable lesson I'd say - that could have easily been considerably more devastating and costly

Ghost

 
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how did it fall of jackstands ? I've heard of jacks failing and cars falling of but not jackstands

 
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Did you hit a large pot hole? Was the steering wheel shaking or did you feel a vibration? Seems odd that a wheel got twisted.

I suppose it could have twisted if when the car fell off the stands it hit the wheel at a bad angle.

 
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No, a while ago I spun out across someone's lawn art and just a couple decent sized rocks. I just haven't had it in the shop since for tires and when I rotated my tire previously I just figured a weight fell off.

 
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Good you didn't hurt yourself. Btw, the front sway bar on the 04-05 was upgraded compared to 02-03, it was 25.4mm hollow and upgraded to 15.9mm solid. Actually many rsx owners upgrade their front sway to an 04-05 em2 sway, so the stock sway on your car should be the good option coupled with the upgraded rear sway

 
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Yeah. I didn't get hurt, just a little pissed. I will say though the car feels a little less sturdy now. I gotta figure out what I'm doing about a replacement rim and alignment will follow suit.

 
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ouch! did not see the part of the jacks...

 
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Yeah, the stands jammed up in the front wheel wells. They did minor damage. Mostly cosmetic, but when I get the money I'll take it to my shop and have them do a once over. I know I need an ac recharge, but I want them to check the suspension over. I know the thread is kinda dead, but I really didn't want to start a new one just for this question, my car bounces a lot when I around a corner with bumps. Is that normal for the stock suspension? Like tonight I took a corner with a bump and the back end bounced to the outside of the corner.