more torque?
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more torque?
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion as to whether when doing an engine swap i should use an accord euro r engine or just use a TSX engine and give up the additnl 20 hp for more trq and a lower compression so i can run more boost, if i go with the TSX im gnna put the K20 head vtec on it
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Rep Power: 336 Okay, first off..i'm going to make this into a list.
K24 Engine Locations and Names:
1. Accord K24A4
2. TSX K24A2
3. Element K24A4
4. CRV K24A1
The Heads:
1. The A4 head: 2 cams lobes on the intake, 1 on the exhaust. EGR Portng
2. The A2 head: 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust cams. EGR Porting
3. The A1 head: 2 cam lobes on intake, 1 on exhaust.
Compression Ratios:
K24A4: 9.7:1
K24A2: 10.5:1
K24A1: 9.6:1
Horsepower and Torque Ratings:
K24A4: 160 hp and 161 ft. lbs tq
K24A2: 200 hp and 166 ft. lbs tq
K24A1: 160 hp and 162 ft. lbs tq
Differences:
The TSX K24 uses a throttle-by-wire system. The engine is also basically a K24 block mated up with the K-series A2 head (think RSX Type-S K20A2 head). The A2 head is the one you want if you're thinking i-VTEC in the traditional power-maker VTEC system, while the other heads' i-VTEC systems are meant more for emissions and gas mileage.
The K24 block is 19.7mm bigger (height wise) than the K20 block. The K24A2 (TSX) has stronger rods and unique crank. It also sports a 7100 rpm redline, while the other K24 engines have a 6500(?) rpm redline. The K24A2 ECU also isn't compatiable with any other engine for some reason. Thinking about Hondata ECU Reflash? Not for the K24A2 ECU then. Because of the Throttle-by-wire system, Hondata won't be releasing any Reflashes anytime soon (last i heard).
Which Engine Should I Get?
Well, thats tough to say. The K24A1 and K24A4 will be more common than the K24A2. Because they'll be more common, they'll probably be cheaper as well. You can always do a head swap with the K24A4 and K24A1 with a K20A2 Head. You'll have a "poor man's" K24A2, but it'll essentially be the same. The K24A4 and K24A1 are more boost friendly because of their lower compression ratios, but the K24A2 can support light boost. I'd say it'd come down to one of three things or a combination.
1. Do you plan to boost or stay N/A? If boost, go with K24A1 or K24A4.
2. Do you want to be more unique/spend more money? Go with the K24A2.
3. Tranny: 6 speed or 5 speed? 6 speed, then get the K24A2. 5 speed, K24A1 or K24A4.
K24 Engine Locations and Names:
1. Accord K24A4
2. TSX K24A2
3. Element K24A4
4. CRV K24A1
The Heads:
1. The A4 head: 2 cams lobes on the intake, 1 on the exhaust. EGR Portng
2. The A2 head: 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust cams. EGR Porting
3. The A1 head: 2 cam lobes on intake, 1 on exhaust.
Compression Ratios:
K24A4: 9.7:1
K24A2: 10.5:1
K24A1: 9.6:1
Horsepower and Torque Ratings:
K24A4: 160 hp and 161 ft. lbs tq
K24A2: 200 hp and 166 ft. lbs tq
K24A1: 160 hp and 162 ft. lbs tq
Differences:
The TSX K24 uses a throttle-by-wire system. The engine is also basically a K24 block mated up with the K-series A2 head (think RSX Type-S K20A2 head). The A2 head is the one you want if you're thinking i-VTEC in the traditional power-maker VTEC system, while the other heads' i-VTEC systems are meant more for emissions and gas mileage.
The K24 block is 19.7mm bigger (height wise) than the K20 block. The K24A2 (TSX) has stronger rods and unique crank. It also sports a 7100 rpm redline, while the other K24 engines have a 6500(?) rpm redline. The K24A2 ECU also isn't compatiable with any other engine for some reason. Thinking about Hondata ECU Reflash? Not for the K24A2 ECU then. Because of the Throttle-by-wire system, Hondata won't be releasing any Reflashes anytime soon (last i heard).
Which Engine Should I Get?
Well, thats tough to say. The K24A1 and K24A4 will be more common than the K24A2. Because they'll be more common, they'll probably be cheaper as well. You can always do a head swap with the K24A4 and K24A1 with a K20A2 Head. You'll have a "poor man's" K24A2, but it'll essentially be the same. The K24A4 and K24A1 are more boost friendly because of their lower compression ratios, but the K24A2 can support light boost. I'd say it'd come down to one of three things or a combination.
1. Do you plan to boost or stay N/A? If boost, go with K24A1 or K24A4.
2. Do you want to be more unique/spend more money? Go with the K24A2.
3. Tranny: 6 speed or 5 speed? 6 speed, then get the K24A2. 5 speed, K24A1 or K24A4.
Last edited by cambo; May 8, 2004 at 06:57 AM.
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Rep Power: 336 I should add that if you want to do the head swap, then check out the June 2004 issue of Sport Compact Car. They do it and some other things in it using 2 complete engines, K20A2 and K24A4 or K24A1.
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From: chantilly, Virginia, US
Rep Power: 336 Re: more torque?
Originally posted by bigkev3182
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion as to whether when doing an engine swap i should use an accord euro r engine or just use a TSX engine and give up the additnl 20 hp for more trq and a lower compression so i can run more boost, if i go with the TSX im gnna put the K20 head vtec on it
I was wondering if anyone has an opinion as to whether when doing an engine swap i should use an accord euro r engine or just use a TSX engine and give up the additnl 20 hp for more trq and a lower compression so i can run more boost, if i go with the TSX im gnna put the K20 head vtec on it
2. TSX Engine already has the K20A2 Head on it (All K20's have VTEC btw). read above.
3. As far as i know, all the K24 blocks are low to mid 160 ft. lbs torque range from the factory.
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Rep Power: 336 Also, here is a dyno from a year ago with a K24A4 with head swap from a K20A2 and some other parts plus a supercharger by jackson racing
This was not an exercise in power, but one to extract maximum torque.
Specifications:
Accord 2.4 bottom end (9.5:1 compression)
RSX-S head
Japanese Integra Type R camchafts
RC 550 saturated injectors
RSX-S six speed gearbox
Jackson Racing race headers and test pipe
Short ram intake
5 Zigen catback
Stock fuel pump and stock fuel pressure
this information was taken from this thread:
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...threadid=91983
which also states the rumor of Hasport in the process making mounts for the K24 swap into 7thgen civics. I wonder why they're still not out yet. Guess those rumors were false, or Hasport is just slow at developing them.
This was not an exercise in power, but one to extract maximum torque.
Specifications:
Accord 2.4 bottom end (9.5:1 compression)
RSX-S head
Japanese Integra Type R camchafts
RC 550 saturated injectors
RSX-S six speed gearbox
Jackson Racing race headers and test pipe
Short ram intake
5 Zigen catback
Stock fuel pump and stock fuel pressure
this information was taken from this thread:
http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...threadid=91983
which also states the rumor of Hasport in the process making mounts for the K24 swap into 7thgen civics. I wonder why they're still not out yet. Guess those rumors were false, or Hasport is just slow at developing them.
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Rep Power: 0 thanks for info, now when you say light boost for the k24a2 how many psi are you talking about, and could possibly decompress the engine a little to run it higher or would that be pointless?
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Holy crap cambo.... done some reaserch on this subject?
Why would you want to swap heads from a K20 on to a K24. Afer reading that issue of Sport compact, it seems that there would some less "painful" ways to make the power they made, particuarly if you're gonna boos. I think the K20 head raises compression a little too, maybe a lower deckking or something? Just IMO.
By the way, not all K20 head are equal, the K20 (a2) i think ( the one from the Si, does not have the phase shifting cams on the exhaust side, it does have VTEC, but not the "i-Vtec"
Why would you want to swap heads from a K20 on to a K24. Afer reading that issue of Sport compact, it seems that there would some less "painful" ways to make the power they made, particuarly if you're gonna boos. I think the K20 head raises compression a little too, maybe a lower deckking or something? Just IMO.
By the way, not all K20 head are equal, the K20 (a2) i think ( the one from the Si, does not have the phase shifting cams on the exhaust side, it does have VTEC, but not the "i-Vtec"
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From: chantilly, Virginia, US
Rep Power: 336 Originally posted by bigkev3182
thanks for info, now when you say light boost for the k24a2 how many psi are you talking about, and could possibly decompress the engine a little to run it higher or would that be pointless?
thanks for info, now when you say light boost for the k24a2 how many psi are you talking about, and could possibly decompress the engine a little to run it higher or would that be pointless?
Swapping out pistons or lowering the compression would be pointless. The reason why the K24A2 makes so much power that it does is because of the higher compression.
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From: chantilly, Virginia, US
Rep Power: 336 Originally posted by Jrfish007
Holy crap cambo.... done some reaserch on this subject?
Why would you want to swap heads from a K20 on to a K24. Afer reading that issue of Sport compact, it seems that there would some less "painful" ways to make the power they made, particuarly if you're gonna boos. I think the K20 head raises compression a little too, maybe a lower deckking or something? Just IMO.
By the way, not all K20 head are equal, the K20 (a2) i think ( the one from the Si, does not have the phase shifting cams on the exhaust side, it does have VTEC, but not the "i-Vtec"
Holy crap cambo.... done some reaserch on this subject?
Why would you want to swap heads from a K20 on to a K24. Afer reading that issue of Sport compact, it seems that there would some less "painful" ways to make the power they made, particuarly if you're gonna boos. I think the K20 head raises compression a little too, maybe a lower deckking or something? Just IMO.
By the way, not all K20 head are equal, the K20 (a2) i think ( the one from the Si, does not have the phase shifting cams on the exhaust side, it does have VTEC, but not the "i-Vtec"
The K20A2 is from the RSX Type-S.
Side Note: A lot of this information i had already known. I checked everything out a long time ago, but didn't remember the actual little details.
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From: chantilly, Virginia, US
Rep Power: 336 Originally posted by bigkev3182
so if you were gnna do it, what setup would you go with to get the most power? Can you get as much power from the k24a2 as you could from the other set ups
so if you were gnna do it, what setup would you go with to get the most power? Can you get as much power from the k24a2 as you could from the other set ups
Generally, you'll make more power boosting then staying N/A. N/A set-ups are much nicer though and are more respected if you can make some good power because it's A LOT harder to make more power.
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Rep Power: 319 NA also has no lag so throtlle reasponse time is better than turbo which makes them a little faster. I've seen plenty of turbo civics with 220 whp or so horse get blown away by 200 whp N/A civics in the 1/4 mile. I perosnally don't want a turbo just becasue of the added complexity (more thing on the motor, more to break). But I think I'll go with the K20A2 because there are more prats that are easier to get for it. But the K24A2 isn't bad either. Does anyone know where I can get prices on the K24A2, maybe it cheaper? Doubt it, but not many people consider it.
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From: chantilly, Virginia, US
Rep Power: 336 Originally posted by Texas Rice
Do a k24 block swap on the k20a2, 185hp 155tq. That way you don't have to use a granny car engine.
Do a k24 block swap on the k20a2, 185hp 155tq. That way you don't have to use a granny car engine.
That swap is essentially the K24A2, sort of.
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