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So I'm cruising along minding my own business, and I'm sitting stopped at a light on Sahara and Durango. This Lancer OZ rally edition pulls up and the guy in his passenger seat is like "look at that riced out Protege!" The driver keeps revving at me and I just shake my head. He's got all kinds of neon lighting going on, and when the light turns green he launches, pretty hard, and his tires squeal. I don't even launch but I open her up a bit, and let the turbo scream. Pass him with ease. I shut it down at around 60-65 this is a 45 zone, and I'm not about getting stupid or pulled over. He does a ricer fly by and turns on his flashers. WTF is wrong with people these days?

 
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As hard as it is to do, you just have to not let them get to you. That happened to me once. Like I'm really going to do a full out quarter burn in the middle of town

 
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What is it with Lancer OZ's? Why do their drivers consistenly think it's a fast car...its like 120 hp i think. ****, i had one rev me and i put like 5 or more cars on him easy and all i had was i/e, damn ricers.

 
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wow that sux for him. what an idiot.. i hate people like that

 
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too much street racing videos

 
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I'm not trying to diss you but you only have 7 hp more than him...

 
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No, I have an RSX, not a Civic anymore.

 
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Some people are idiots...

 
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just ignore them i used to get mad now i just laugh when they take off and i go on my way

 
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<sarcasm>Didn't you hear? Mitsu had a recall on the OZ's, the badge was wrong, they're supposed to say EVO VII</sarcasm>

I've cooked 'em in the Vic before. I might only have 7 more horepower, but I'm putting more than they are to the ground in a proportional sense.

 
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What do you mean by this? Does the lancer have more powertrain loss? I haven't looked into this, but enlighten me about what you're saying here...

 
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Pinche Teenagers...

 
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That was in reponse to this:

It is a half-assed statement on my part because I'm assuming (possibly correctly) that the Lancer has more driveline losses than the Civic does, thereby magnifying the 7 horsepower gap between the two cars in favor of the Civic. The proportional bit comes from the fact that if both cars had the same horsepower with their current specs, the Civic, in my opinion, would be putting down more.

EDIT: Now I get off track, disreguard if you'd like

On a more scientific side, other things to note:
1.) The OZ has 130 lb/ft of torque, 114 for the EX.
2.) The OZ has 2.0L of displacement, meaning more metal to get moving and less horsepower to the flywheel than a lighter/smaller engine of the same output. The flywheel/clutchpack is likely heavier than the Civics because of the need for more momentum to keep the idle smooth. More parasitic drag due to more moving weight.
3.) The OZ is heaver that the EX, 2700 vs. 2612 (EX 4-door)
4.) The OZ uses a cast iron block; This usually results in less-efficient cumbustion due to heat-soak. It also increases parasitic drag if the pistons are aluminum in the iron block. The Civic uses an aluminum block.
5.) The OZ uses an aluminium head on the iron block. Aluminum and Iron expand at different rates. The cylinders will be a slightly different size than the head at some point, meaning a seam which leads to less combustion-charge stratification and therefore less efficient combustion and possibly increased parasitic drag due to angular loading on the pistons. Insignificant power losses, but once again, any bit counts.
6.) The only other possible reason is oil weight, they don't list what the Lancer uses, but it may or may not be heavier than the Civic's 5w20. More parasitic drag.
7.) The quality/drag of the accessories are unknown, but it may play a factor into parasitic drag.
8.) Transmission construction and the weights of the gears, shafts and bearnings play a part in drag; As does the weight of the fluid.

All these things put together = driveline losses

The losses internal to the engine are usually present in the bench-testing the manufacturer does to get the numbers on the websites. Everything from the flywheel back is after-they-get-the-engine-in-the-car type of losses which we equate as driveline loss.

Not to say that the Lancer sucks, because it dosen't IMO, but there are a multitude of reasons why it will or won't be faster than another car; The shifty bit of which comes down to rolling hardware, axle/wheel/tire/brake weights and, most importantly, the driver.

 
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^-------- I'll take your word for it.

 
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Sounds like good points to me. Doesnt honda have the least amount of hp loss from a flywheel to wheel?

 
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Hmmm I dunno it all depends on what the manufacturer rates their cars at. I know that my car was rated by the manufacturer at 170 at the flywheel but typically stock dynos go for about 155 whp. Most cars lose about 15% so if this were true, mazda underrated this car, as it would likely be closer to 182 hp mathematically.

 
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In a general sense, yes. Their production tranmissions and drivelines are very close to most purpose-built devices. Honda also extends their engineering expertise to the engines reducing drag and rotating mass as they go.

It wouldn't be to suprising to me if your Mazda made more horsepower than the factory said it did. Would be even less suprising if your engine was manufactured in it's parent companies factories (Ford). American auto's are notorious for under-rating horsepower and over-rating fuel economy. Honda currently is, and both Toyota and Honda used to be the other way around, they'd have less horsepower than the factory said they did but get better gas mileage. My Civic is rated for 35 on the highway, and I've got gotten under 42 yet...

Makes good for cheep-to-run econo cars but bad for sports cars.

 
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oops, double post...

 
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Nope, the Mazda was manufactured and shipped over from Hofu, (Hiroshima) Japan.

 
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Very nice.

In retrospect, it's pretty sad when you think "crappy product" when you see something on a car that has "Made in USA" stamped on it.

Anyway, I'd not be suprised if your Maz makes more horsies than the factory rated them for. If your horsepower really was 170 and you were still getting 155 to the wheels, that would be a 9.6% driveline loss, which is possible in a production car, just pretty damn hard to accompish. Either that or Mazda saw fit to benchmark the engine with the flywheel on it when they got their power figure... I know that some manufacturers bench-dyno without the flywheel and some with. The fly-wheel-less bench dyno's are hideously expensive, even when compared to a standard bench dyno. I don't have the first clue where to start looking for info on various companies bench-testing methods but I sure wish I could find out.

And since your a mazda maniac, did you read car & driver for april 2004? They did a first-drive of the new Mazdaspeed tubo Miata... It's a good read! Not to mention it's about time Mazda jumped both-feet into the tuner world... They debut a Mazdaspeed 6 at some auto show or another and it looks to be quite sweet.

 
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Yeah I read that it was a damn good read. I think it's about time people started recognizing the Miata as the most successful selling sports cars of all time, and as a very track worthy car. Especially the new Mazdaspeed edition. The Mazdaspeed 6 from what I've heard will be a 6 version of what the MP3 was a couple years back. Meaning it has a body kit, rims, and a PCM flash. The car to hope and pray for US shores is the MPS concept which will feature a 270 HP turbocharged I-4, upgraded suspension, body styling, rims, and best of all....AWD. Can we say "move over EVO and STi?"

The Mazdaspeed 3 will be something to look forward to also, although I don't know if it will feature AWD nor if they will turbo that sucker...the all aluminum block might have to be redone in cast iron to ensure reliability, but then again...I could be wrong...

 
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Yeah, no kidding. I remember when the Miata first got hit by the tuner market. It was crazy some of the stuff people were doing to them. I remember Stillen as being a major player in suspention components. With higher rate springs, good shocks, heavier anti-sway bars and front and rear stablizer bars I recall 300ft skidpad results of over 1g no matter what tires/wheels/rims were on it.

Yeah, Mazda really needs to capitalize on it's parent company's pockets and whip their R&D departments into high gear. The MPS definately sounds like a sweet ride. What platform is it based off of? If it's based off the MP5, which sounds about right, EVO and STi will be left grabbing their ankles. The platform is -plenty- capable from the get-go, give it more ponies and fun bits in the suspension then price it 5k below anyone elses and they'll sell the crap out of em.

I dunno, current block metals are not only aluminum but aluminum alloy You can do a hellova lot to aluminum when you start throwing other stuff into the mix. You get better reliability almost comparable to iron without the rather significant weight penalty. To highlight high-end aluminum blocks, look at the Porsche 911. The RuF mod cars make close to if not over twice stock horsepower using more boost and some tougher internals in the crankshaft and head department.

Despite it all, though, when I've got my own place to work on cars, I'll be picking up the latest RX-7 I can find and having myself a fire-belching rotor powered beast. I've spent two years learning about rotary power and have completely fallen in love with the idea of an engine with 6x the rated displacement per complete revolution (for twin rotor), about 12 moving parts, no valves, AWOSOME response to boost, high redline and no reciprocating parts; with current metalurgy technology, it's a close as you can get to the perfect power plant; lighter, stronger, smaller, more powerfull and just as reliable, if not more, when serviced properly.

I wonder if I could swap a RX-7 driveline into my vic.... Tha'd be the ****!!!

(yeah, I know it's illegal... I'll have to get an old CVCC from 81, then i can go nuts... Oh and I need to get that dream-shop while I'm at it... I'll be the frickin' Jesse James/OCC of imports I tell ya!!!!!)

 
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Damn I feel the same way sometimes. A couple of friends of mine opened a shop called "Velocity Kitchen" and were asking me to get in on it, but honestly it just seems too risky. But damn it's a nice dream haha. Funny you should mention RX-7's, there are alot on autotrader right now, and you can pick up an FD (3rd gen) for as low as 10 grand, and just order it a new motor. I recommend the 20B from the cosmo. Another crazy custom job that's getting more popular is taking two 13B motors, coupling them together using extra long bolts, and custom eccentric shafts to create a 26B. Imagine boosting that thing. I'm not too educated on it, but I'll find the resources if you need it...I know my way around Mazda sites pretty well...

The MPS is actually based off of the 6. So we'll basically have the Mazdaspeed 6, and the MPS. The MPS has been confused as the MS 6 for quite some time now, but now the word around the Mazda camp is they'll have 2 "performance" versions of the 6. Think of it as the Ralliart and the EVO.

As far as the P5 goes, it's been discontinued due to the new Mazda 3's. And it's a damn shame I tell you. I like the 3's, but the P5 seemed sportier to me.

Be that as it may for the Porsches and RUF cars using aluminum blocks, I'll still take cast iron just for peace of mind, for any type of FI application. Just me...I'm a little paranoid. I've blown a couple motors in my day...