sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

came across this - good info - thought on sharing.

WARNING1! - this is for reference - do not post questions or it will make harder to find useful information. Post only contributions to the thread.
WARNING2! - this will be updated as information is added, so remember to review after some time passed!
WARNING3! - I have been trying to find a recommended front-to-rear spring ratio for the civic, but it is hard to find...

As a reference, observe the 7th gen progress spring ratios.
- For the lowering springs, they do not include the rear sway bars.
- For the coilovers they do recommend rear sway bars.
Why is that? That means the progress lowering springs have way too much stiffness in the rears to use the rear sway bar!!!

Any springs that uses stiffer in the front than the rears are going to create a car that will simply go straight in corners when you go over the suspension limits!!! (AKA understeer)

Experienced drivers will prefer to have stiffer setup in the rear, so the car will rotate better.

However, if you simply never went 30 MPH beyond the point the tires start squeaking, DO NOT select springs that are too stiff in the rear - REAL skills are needed to know how to handle a car that spins when beyond the limit!!! A car that goes straight is much safer than one that is spinning.

By Eran, clubcivic

Here is a compiled list of spring rates for many different aftermarket (and OEM) springs for Civics and Integras. I am still working on my 88-91, 92-95, and 01+ (Non-EP3) listings, and they will be added to this in due time. Sorry, I don't yet have the spring rates for the factory EP3. If anyone has more information, or corrections, let me know so I can add them. A big thanks to JDMFreak, EXavier, and PahLok from HT.

P = Progressive
L = Linear

(this portion came from Josh's EP3 in H-t, as well as ggood part of the DC5 down below)
[What is Progressive Spring Rate?]
Progressive rate springs are likely Call-in one solutions. They are often used on performance aftermarket kits like Eibach or others, and they are good for daily performance street driving. They help you achieve the highest performance when driving hard, while providing a smooth, comfortable drive the rest of the time.

[What is Linear Spring Rate?]
Linear springs are more often used in drag racing, road racing, track and races that require a high spring rate, in which a constant spring rate is more important than a smooth ride. They are still popular because they are:

1. Easier to produce and can be made to lower a car beyond the point of progressive rate springs.
2. Easy to work with, because the spring rate never changes, allowing quick chassis set-up.
3. Inexpensive, allowing most race teams to use several different sets depending on track conditions

See below a progressive, dead coil system equipped Eibach springs:


The wire diameter keeps constant, but the change in the overall diameter of the "Coil" (spring OD) does change, (the smaller the diameter, the smaller the spring rate) indicating the springs are "progressive" - if a small bump, the smaller diameter coils will move and the others will remain in place - softer springs). There is also the change in the pitch of the coil. Note that the coils on the bottom have a smaller distance from each other (smaller pitch) - this will reduce their spring rate and will be fully compressed when the car's weight is on the suspension (being the reason they are called "dead coils") - they serve the purpose of keeping the springs in place when a wheel lifts from the ground (full droop) (pissing dog effect on the FWD civic's).

For 96-00 Civics (EJ, EK and EM1 chassis codes)

96-00 EX factory 165F/80R (P/P)
99-00 Si (EM1) factory 201F/99.8R (P/P)
CTR factory 240/240 (L/P)
APEX'i WS 447F/178R
Eibach ProKit 290F/190R (P/P)
Eibach Sportline 310F/275R (P/P)
Gold-line GL 2.5" drop 320/190 (P/P)
Gold-line GPS 1.25" drop 275/160 (P/P)
Ground Control Coilover 380F/280R (P/P)*
H&R OE 280F/190R (P/P)
H&R Sport 330F/280R (P/P)
JIC FLT-A2s (USDM) 504F/336R (L/L)
Koni RSK Suspension kit 154-205/270 (P/L)
Neuspeed SofSports 260F/150R (P/P)
Neuspeed Sport 280F/180R (P/P)
Neuspeed Race 485F/395R
Omni-Power Adjustable Sleeve Coilover 448F/336R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Street Coilovers 448F/336R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Sport Coilovers 539F/448R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Drag Coilover 810F/810R (L/L)*
Omni-Power 6-Way Damping Coilovers 539/448/336 (L)*
Progress Coilovers 350F/250R (P/P)
Progress Lowering Springs 320F/200R (P/P)
SkunkWerks Coilovers (old) 400F/300R (L/L)
Skunk2 Coilovers (new) 500F/400r (L/L)
Sparco needed
Spoon Full Coilovers 300/240
SSR Cup 392/280
SSR S1 448/448
Suspension Techniques 10-15% more then stock (P/P)
Tanabe DF-210 10-15% more then stock
Tanabe NF-210 5-10% more then stock
Tein HT 1119F/448R (L/L)
Tein HG 365F/129-196R (L/P)
Tein SS 448F/224R
Tein Flex 504F/280R
Tein RA/RE/RS 783F/559R (L/L)
Tein S. Tech 235F/140R
Tokico Illumina Kit 250/123 (P/P)

For 01-05 Civic (EM2/ES1) - added
stock 150F/250R - (estimate?)
Bisimoto Sport 145F/350R, 1.8"/2.0" (L/L?)
K-Sport 392F/448R
Megan 280F/230R (very bad distribution...) drop 1.5F/R
Progress Sport springs 145F/350R Drop 1.8"F/2.0"R (P/P)
Progress coilovers 350F/650R ), adjustable height (L/L)
Tanabe GF210 168F/319R drop 1.3 / 1.5
Tanabe NF210 134F/274R drop 1.5 / 1.5
Tanabe DF210 168F/279R drop 1.8 / 1.8
Tein S. Tech 160F/290R Drop 1.34F/1.38R (P/P), not recommend for sedan
Tein Hitech 140F/260R Drop 0.75F/0.79R (P/P), not recommend for sedan
Tein Super street Damper 340F/450R (L/L), adjustable height
Tein Type flex 670F/780R (L/L), adjustable height
Vogtland Drop 1.4"F/1.4"R

For 02-05 Civic Si (EP3)

Stock 248F/440R - added
Eibach Pro-Kit 15-20% stiffer then stock
Eibach Sportlines 20-25% stiffer then stock
H&R Sport 25-30% more then stock
Omni-Power Street Coilovers 448F/336R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Sport Coilovers 539F/448R (L/L)*
Omni-Power 6-Way Damping Coilovers 539/448/336 (L)*
Progress 280F/500R
Sprint 20-25% more then stock
Tein Flex 448F/559R
Tein SS 336F/448R
Tein S. Tech 157F/291R

For 94-01 DC Integra

97, 00-01 ITR factory 250F/250R (L/P)
GS-R factory 200F/95R (P/P)
OEM 60x343mm 252F/140R (L/P)
Comptech Sport 335F/210R (L/P)
Eibach Pro Kit 288F/213R (P/P)
Eibach Sport Line 325F/241R (P/P)
Endless Zeal Function B6 Hard 672F/448R (L/L)
Endless Zeal Function B6 Street 560F/336R (L/L)
Ground Control Coilovers 380F/250R (L/L)*
H&R OE Sport 302F/168R
H&R Race 460F/350R (L/L)
H&R Sport 276F/276R (L/P)
HKS SF5 398F/291R (L/L)
KW variant 1 needed (L/L)
KW variant 2 needed (L/L)
KW variant 3 needed (L/L)
Mugen 5 Adjustment Kit 381F/252R (L/L)
Neuspeed Race 455F/360R (L/L)
Neuspeed Soft Sport 250F/185R (P/P)
Neuspeed Sport 250F/185R (P/P)
Omni-Power Adjustable Sleeve Coilover 448F/336R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Sport Coilovers 539F/448R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Street Coilovers 448F/336R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Drag Coilover 810F/810R (L/L)*
Omni-Power 6-Way Damping Coilovers 539/448/336 (L)*
RS*R Race 279F/268R (L/L)
RS*R SUS 242F/173R (P/P)
SkunkWerks Coilovers (old) 500F/400R
Skunk2 Coilovers (new) 500F/400R (L/L)
Spoon Progressive 358F/303R (P/P)
Spoon Stright Spring 60x200mm 448F/448R (L/L)
Swift Sport Mach Luxury 336F/196R (L/L)
Tanabe DF210 241F/201R
Tanabe GF210 302F/235R
Tanabe NF210 274F/201R
Tein High Tech 296F/257R (P/P)
Tein S-Tech 335F/274R (P/P)
* = Can custom make coil-overs with superior spring rates (0.25lb/ft increases)

For 02-04 DC5 RSX - added
Stock 279F/458R
Tein High Tech 440F/280R (P/P)
Tein S-Tech 470F/310R (P/P)
Dropzone: Spring Rate: (? Front/? Rear) - Drop: (2in all around)
Eibach Pro-kit: Spring Rate: (15-20% more than stock) - Drop: (1in Front/1.1in rear)
Eibach Sportline: Spring Rate: (20-25% more than stock) - Drop: (1.4in Front/1.5in Rear)
GoldLine Springs - Spring Rate: (?) - Drop: (2in all around)
H&R Sport: Spring Rate: (25-30% more than stock) - Drop: (2in all around)
Neupseed Race: Spring Rate: (200 Front/280 Rear) - Drop: (2in all around)
Neupseed Sport: Spring Rate: (200 Front/280 Rear) - Drop: (1.5in Front/1.5in Rear)
Progress: Spring Rate: (280 Front/500 Rear) - Drop: (1.8in Front/1.5in Rear)
Sprint: Spring Rate: (20-25% more than stock) - Drop: (2in all around)
Spoon Progressive: Spring Rate: (413 Front / 458 Rear) - Drop: (1.5-1.7in all around)
Tanabe df210: Spring Rate: (10-15% more than stock) Drop: (2in Front/2.3in Rear)
Tanabe nf210: Spring Rate: (10-15% more than stock) Drop: (1.5in all around)
Tanabe gf210: Spring Rate: (20-30% more than stock) Drop: (1.3in Front/1.5in Rear)
Tein H Tech: Spring Rate: (257 Front/476 Rear) Drop: (.8in Front/.7in Rear)
Tein S Tech: Spring Rate: (280 Front/515 Rear) Drop: (1.4in Front/1.3in Rear)

[Ground Controls]
Dropzone: Spring Rate: (? Front/? Rear)
Ground Control EP3 kit: Spring Rate: (375 Front/450 Rear)
Skunk2 Coil-overs: Spring Rate: (440 Front/330 Rear)

[Full Coil-overs] Spring & Shock (fixed height)
Mugen: Spring Rate: (283 Front/439 Rear) Drop: (1.4in all around)
Honda Factory Performance: Spring Rate: (? Front/? Rear) Drop: (?in all around) - very similar to the mugen kit, awaiting specs

[Full Coil-overs] Spring & Shock (adj height)
Megan Racing Street w/Straight Arm 32-way adj.(447 Front/559 Rear)
Buddy Club Racing Spec: Spring Rate (559 Front/894 Rear) (Adj ?? min - ?? max)
D2 Racing: Spring Rate (447 Front/559Rear) (Adj ?? min - ?? max)
JIC FLT-A2: Spring Rate: (504 Front/560 Rear) Drop: (Adj stock - 3.5in max)
KW V2: Spring Rate: (340 Front/515 Rear) Drop: (Adj 1.4in min - 2.6in max)
Omni Street: Spring Rate: (559 Front/445 Rear) Drop: (Adj 0in min - 4in max)
Omni Sport: Spring Rate: (670Front/559Rear) Drop: (Adj 0in min - 4in max)
Progress C1: Spring Rate: (350 Front/640 Rear) Drop: (Adj 1in min - 4in max)
Tein Basic: Spring Rate: (336 Front/448 Rear) Drop: (Adj ?? min - ?? max
Tein Type Flex: Spring Rate: (448 Front/559 Rear) Drop: (Adj ?? min - ?? max)
LSR: Spring Rate: (550 Front/450 Rear) Drop: (Adj 4 min - 4max) 12-way adj

[Conversion Rates]
1 kg/mm = 55.88 lb/in
1 N/mm = 5.588 lb/in

__________________
Jason -- 97 VSM del Sol <2WAYPARADISE>

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

also, some theory:
by specialED, clubcivic
None of the numbers up there have to do with ride height

Here's how spring rates work:

Say you have a front rate of 200lb/in. (ie, 200F/xxxR). That means that each front spring takes 200lbs of pressure to compress one inch. The higher your spring rate, the more force it takes to compress it, the stiffer your ride.

Linear vs Progressive:

Linear springs have the same rate from top to bottom. No matter where pressure is applied, it's going to take the same ammount of pressure to compress one inch. Progressive springs use "inactive" coils to have two completely separate spring rates. The bottom portion of the spring will take less pressure to compress, thus giving a softer, smoother ride, where the top portion will take more pressure to compress, thus improving handling in more agressive cornering.
__________________

got this from Jonas of CHB months ago and i'm sure some of the CHB members here have read it:

Spring rates are basically determined by "pounds per inch". Say a spring is listed at 300 lbs. This means it takes 300 pounds of force to compress the spring 1 inch. Then there's linear and progressive rate springs. Progressive rate springs are nice and comfortable for the street car because as the car turns-in, the spring will compress easily (say 200 lbs per inch), and then get stiffer as it compresses more (say 400 lbs per inch at max). A linear rate is what racecars like because there's no guessing and weird progression feel. I don't want to be in the middle of a corner and all of the sudden my springs get harder. I want full compression rate right now.

The ideal spring rates depend on the weight of the car, what you're doing with it, and how stiff you like it. Assuming you have a 2000 Si model, a popular spring combo is 350 front, 400 rear. Lots of people also like to have the higher rate spring in the front. The Civic will understeer ... period. This is safe, but it's also slow on the track. Ways to help bring the car to a more neutral level is to install the higher rate springs in the rear, remove or reduce the size of the front anti roll bar, and add big anti roll bars in the rear. Again, it's all about what you want and what you feel safe in.

People that typically complain about a bouncy ride, are people with unmatched springs and shocks. Say the KYB adjustable shocks can handle a 350 pound spring. If you put a 500 pound spring on them, you're asking for trouble. The shock "dampens" the spring compression (bump) and rebound, therefore they are referred to as dampers. When the wheel hits a bump, the spring will compress and then rebound. You ideally want a "fast bump" and a "slow rebound" so the tire to follow the countours of the pavement without leaving the surface. So, if the shock can't handle the spring rate, you're overheating your shocks and the ride quality suffers.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

some info on pillow ***** too:

Not sure what all the hype is about pillow ball mounts, but they're not necessary for our cars and they do nothing from what I can tell. Different shock body material is a cost vs. need thing. You don't need aluminum shocks unless you're building a full on racecar and need every single ounce of weight savings. This whole thing about rusting steel shocks is crap. Factory shocks are steel, Koni's are steel, TrueChoice shocks are steel, Tokico's are steel....see where I'm going? I just don't buy into all the hype about all the overseas suspension manufactures. As far as I'm concerned, you're wasting your money twice. First, they cost way too much. Second, when you blow a damper, who's going to repair it? You have to ship it overseas and wait 4 months for a replacement. If you have teo grand to spend on suspension, TrueChoice and Advanced Design are every bit as good (if not better) and won't screw you on repairs or service.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

phew, that was all i could find. if someone else have more updates, please post here.

MindBomber

Anyone want to see this stickied?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

or you could just merge this with robclark's sticky - i could not post in there, being the reason i created a new one

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

If anyone have more info on the EM2/ES1 aftermarket springs, please post here - i just went through my eibach springs paperwork and could not locate the spring rates for them... (and they are the ones i use...)
Or the stock ones - they are reealy hard to find online...

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Just tried calling eibach, but they wil not give me the spring rates for the pro-kit or sport kit... maybe it's under copyright? Maybe when i get them out for shocks i will try to measure the rates... (i am curious about what i am currently using )
Added a few more that i could find online. The 7th gen parts really do not have much info around...

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

WARNING:
4 Door cars: I had forgotten to add that the 4 door version is heavier in the rear, so most of the springs available will have troubles of reverse rack, as in the rear will lower more than the fronts.
If you have a heavy sub or system in the trunk, it will be even worse, so consider getting springs that are stiffer in the back from the list.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

thanks, MB
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...termarket.html

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

thanks, RR

good info - seems that some are slightly diff
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...reference.html