zps2004

iTrader: (4)

I don't post up here much but I figure I'd post up since im almost happy with my car. I recently installed koni yellows and Ground controls. the rear koni's were from a RSX because they are valved stiffer. For spring rates I am running 440lbs front and 550lbs rear. Here is the pictures from that when I was done.

Rear


Front


I more recently finally recieves my sway bars. I put in the hotchkis competition sway bvars from a RSX/EP3. 27mm rear and 25mm front 2 settings each.

Front


Rear


Right now I have the car aligned to -2.25 degrees in the front and 0 in the rear with 0 toe. Soon im going to buy another set of tie rod ends and machine off 1/4 of an inch so I can hopefully get -2.75 to -3 degrees in the front. I know everyone is going to say how the front sway was a bad idea, but ill get to the point of that soon.

these are going to be my STS wheels. Team Dynamics Pro Race 1



13.2lbs isn't the lightest but these are very stong which is good because they are going to be going on a honda challenge car afterwards. Unfortunatly the tires aren't going to be in for a while because they just came off of back order and are shipping oct 5th. Ill be running the Bridgestone RE-01R. Also after those are done ill put another set on the Pro race wheels and get a set of 15X7.5 slipstreams and run 225/45/15 nitto NT01 shaved. Thats why I have the front sway. Almost forgot to mention but I have Ground Control camber plates as well. Im sure there is something im missing but ill remember it at some point. Feel free to post up your opinions of my setup so far. The car will have a totally different alignment when im done. Right now im running on 205/50/16 cooper lifeliner touring tires because they were $20 a tire. Even at 44PSI the sidewalls are too soft to determain if the alignment needs to be changed.

bullet02ex

good job man let us know how it rides

Da1lyDr1ver

iTrader: (6)

isnt the front swaybar way too thick for autocross. i might have missed your point in having the thicker swaybar, but i would think you'd want more oversteer, so a thinner one would probably suit you better.

oh yea, and 0 camber in the rear???

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

Well as far as the ride is concerned I am keeping 205-50-16 tires on my DD wheels which are the HFP wheels. With that much sidewall the ride is rougher then stock but not bad at all. WAYYYYY smoother then when I has k-sports. the konis are just one million times better at dampening then k-sports.

With concern to the front sway bar. My car is an EX so we came with a 25mm front anyway. With the 27mm rear the 25 front isn't bad at all. Also with our cars beinf mcpherson front you can make them turn with more front camber but then braking and accel sux. Since ill be on track and autocrossing the 25mm will allow me to run less overall camber to make it turn and allowing me to have better braking and accell. When I'm running 225 r-comp tires the stiffer bars will really help with that much cornering grip. I have a good example of more camber loosing forward grip. On my way home from work there is this one turn off the highway that no one ever takes bc there is a shorter way. I take it bc the shorter way had a huge 1+inch step up in it. Anyway. the corner is a 2nd gear going in, a good size that would see in a faster autocross. I enter at around 4000rpm. When going out it is a increasing radius where you will be full throttle all the way. By the time I hit the strait again im at 7000. Before the sway change I would spin the inside. but now with the front and rear going into the corner is really good but coming out the car just grips and goes. I was very happy with that fact. Im running really crappy tires right now too so it makes the fact im getting grip really impressive.

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

sounds like it makes sense..i think u have a good point. eveyrthing looks good.. hows the drop with that setup..im guessing its not that low.. 1.5-1.8" drop??

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

The rear springs are on wrong!!! You shouldn't need that metal plate. The GCs should be resting on the ring around the Koni.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

^^^^Word.


I think you're also going to find that you want a smaller front sway bar.... as the way to really get these things to move is to get them stiff in the rear, and let the front dig in hard.

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

Oh yea one of those things i forgot to mention is im getting the other threaded sleeve for the rears, so that will be corrected soon. I mentioned how they were RSX rear konis and they sent me the RSX rear sleeve. I ran one autocross before I put the sway bars in, when I had the 25mm stock front and the 22mm progress rear bar. I was running on 205-50-15 RS-2's and the car felt great. this was also with all the koni's on soft. The car had plenty of rotation around the corners and not too much in the slaloms. So im pretty sure that having the 27 rear and 25 front will be fine with the RE-01's grip, even more so with the 225 Nittos. Either way time will tell.

Zzyzx

For now a stiffer bar may be preferable. But as you get better and better you are going to run in to an issue of maximum traction, both in exiting corners as well as mid phase turning.

the reason behind this is because of the fact that anti-roll bars actually increase the lateral load being transfered in a turn. Meaning, anti-roll bars actually decrease the amount of traction a car can make, on which ever end of the car they are mounted.

So eventually you're going to need to increase the amount of traction the front end can make in order to be faster, and the best way to do that is to get rid of the front anti-roll bar. And that may also mean you needing to increase your front spring rates.

Remember, there is a HUGE difference between increasing a cars available traction vs. tweaking its oversteer/understeer balance. And in my mind it is much more preferable to Maximize the cars front end traction 1st, and then reduce the cars rear traction to get the oversteer/understeer balance I want.

Kevbotron

iTrader: (1)

^case and point

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

I can do that as well.



Anywho. I do have stiffer front springs then the standard ground control kit. 440 is a pretty large gain on a mcpherson car from 375. Overall the car is great. steady state the car is neutral with over or understeer if I want it. corner exit I have traction withouth wheels spin and corner entry is very responsive and easy to hit the apex. I don't have a major problem with anything yet. The only thing is I know I need more camber and I need my tie rods before I can fix that so the car is setup to be balanced with the front grip that I can have with my little camber.

Zzyzx

I think you missed the important part of the post. The point being that anti-roll bars decreasing the available traction on the end of the car they are mounted.

Meaning the front end of your car is not making as much traction as it could make regardless of the cars current oversteer/understeer balance.

Boggie6868

iTrader: (1)

Roll center adjusters. Ever thought of buying them?

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

hey i wana know where u got those wheels and how much..seirously!

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

Very true, I have known that and agree with you on it, but there is a point where a sway bar is optimal. Otherwise no one would ever run with a anti-roll bar. It is also easy to run withouth one and make a car turn by having more camber, but when you look at that situation you are optimizing the outside wheel while the inside is at a very poor angle with the ground and not optimized. If you look at my 3 wheelin picture youll see that the inside wheels has a tiny contact patch. This was with RA-1's and the progress rear bar. We run NASA autocross rules not SCCA so I was legal in F stock. Getting back on point, you can with less front sway but usually your inside front wheel is not being maximized in grip in those conditions. It is known that when a car usually looses front grip that the outer wheels looses grip when the inner wheels isn't at it's maximum. When the outside goes over it's limit it then puts too much cornering force on the inside making it go over it's limit as well.

As stated above I have gone through this one corner on my way home from work about 100 times and since I put the 2 sway bars on my cornering speed and traction out of the corner has increased thats all the information I need to convince me. Damn I always write a lot when responding.

Also I would buy roll center adaptors but they are illegal in STS and My car is lowered the same as when I had my HFP suspension in so it should be only about an inch lower.

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

I got the wheels from good-win-racing. They are a miata supplier but they got me the wheels since the size is close enough. They were about 130 a wheel I believe. They are 15X7 and +40 offset. Once I get my tires Ill know for sure but im 99% sure ill be running a 15mm spacer with these wheels as well due to my camber.

InanimateCarbonRod

iTrader: (6)

Is this the GC camber plate you used? I'm assuming the adjustability is there from the slotted bolt holes but is there really no markings for camber angle?

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=154/CA=71

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

Yes that is the same camber plate that I am using. either way you should never look at the plate for the actual degree reading because of the tollerance on the holes on the plate and your 2 hud mounting bolts the camber can vary a lot.

jamesandrew58

iTrader: (1)

zzyzx. do you still have the front fenderwell liner on?

Zzyzx

Yeah, why?

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Well.. You forgot to mention rear ksport camber kit

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

True I did forget to mention that. On that line I also slotted the top and bottom bolt hole on the strut allowing for some camber while still using the origional bolts. Im going to be getting camber bolts for them soon though to get more camber out of the car.

jamesandrew58

iTrader: (1)

what is the consequences if i take out the front fenderwell liner?

InanimateCarbonRod

iTrader: (6)

Probably illegal in STS according to 14.2.E