RESILE

Recently had my proportiong valve replaced and after looking over the work done it seems that the mechanic has attached the two rear brake lines opposite. He put the RR in the port for the RL and the RL in the port for the RR. My question is does it really matter? How will this effect the braking system? Thanx.

ezone

You positive your lines are in the wrong spots? How can you tell which line is which?


Was the part factory or aftermarket?

Do the brake lines all look mangled and twisted? They would have to be disturbed in order to get them moved around to different positions to connect to wrong ports.


What kinda car you got?

RESILE

03 Honda civic 4dr lx 1.7L No ABS

I got under the car myself and followed the lines. Not 100% sure they are in the wrong place. But after looking at a diagram of the brake lines. I can see that my brake lines don't match. They do not seem to be bent or mangled in any way, but the ports are side by side so it wouldn't b too difficult to mix them up. And the proportioning valve is factory. (Taken off another 03 civic)

ezone

Easy to lose track of which line twisted behind the other line where....

Better be positive of this before you go......
Can you post the diagram?

If the two rear lines were truly in the wrong ports, the system would no longer be plumbed as a dual-diagonal brake system.

Assuming one already knows how the dual-diagonal system works, one could figure out if they got swapped by getting all 4 wheels off the ground, bleeding each brake and observing which pair of wheels free up during bleeding.

RESILE

http://estore.honda.com/honda/parts/...n=&b=B++25&dl=

That's the diagram.

What do you mean by free up?

And I am positive the lines are running into differnt ports (according to the diagram)

RESILE

I realize my brake system will no longer b dual diagnol but instead a side to side split system. So will this effect how my car stops? Is it dangerous?

I can always just connect the lines into the correct ports but want to avoid having to bleed the system. Because I'm told that my car must have the fluid forced through(with a machine) in order to properly bleed them. I know how to bleed brakes but they say the traditional two man job doesn't work for newer cars.

ezone

That's what I thought you'd have. My catalog has the same picture.

It's just a picture though.
There's no guarantee it's accurate in detail. I certainly don't rely on it 100%.

"According to the diagram" isn't necessarily the same as what's actually happening on the car.


Ever bleed brakes yourself?
What happens after someone pumps up the brake pedal?
And then what happens when you loosen the bleeder screw?

ezone

It becomes a serious problem in the event of a serious problem.

It's the backup system in the event of a hydraulic failure, and you compromise that backup system. It will affect handling during braking, causing a dramatic pull instead of going somewhat straightish.


If you had ABS, it would be trying to control the wrong rear wheel.
Better figure out if you NEED to do this before you do this.
False.

mikey1

it only matters if you have ABS,

if you dont have ABS just leave it alone

RESILE

Don't mean to doubt you but Are you sure the diagram would not b accurate. It certainly seems exactly what's going on and all other lines on the diagram match what my car has except those two rear lines.

I tried to bleed them myself and the pedal would not stiffen up. So I took it in and they said the master cylinder is not passing any fluid though. Which caught me by suprise.... The original problem was the brake pedal being spongey... So I bled the brakes and found out my LR LINE had NO fluid.... Replaced the proportioning valve ( because I felt if it was the master cylinder more then one line would not have fluid???) And now all the lines have fluid, but the pedal still will not stiffen up after bleeding. Could it b the master cylinder? Or maybe brake booster?

Yes
Stays spongey and goes all the way to the floor
Fluid comes out... And air bubbles.

ezone

I can't say it is or isn't. I say I don't trust it 100% because it is only a drawing for the parts catalog.

The only way to know for sure is to prove which line ends up where, on your car.

I would probably approach it as described here: Assuming one already knows how the dual-diagonal system works, one could figure out if they got swapped by getting all 4 wheels off the ground, bleeding each brake and observing which pair of wheels free up during bleeding.

Or disassemble one of the lines in question and check where the flow goes.


You seem to have a real brake hydraulic problem, you may be attacking the wrong things at this point.

Sounds like the system isn't properly bled yet if you are still getting air.

Why haven't you returned to the shop that did the work? They apparently aren't finished with the job yet.

RESILE

I thought I was attacking the right components of the hydraulics system........brake booster, master cylinder and proportioning valve. Are there more major components to the system?

All work done to my car is done by me or a friend mechanic(with my supervision).

I took it to a shop just for diagnostics and they said I need to replace the entire braking system.....$1500 cost
I said no of course and tried taking it on one part at a time by myself.
I just took it in this morning to have them bled(because I was convinced that it was a professional job)
And they said master cylinder isn't passing fluid.
So I'm stuck with this question now....how r the brake lines getting fluid if the master cylinder is broke?

Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it. I think my next option is to replace the master cylinder.

ezone

Booster is not likely part of the problem.

If you keep getting air bubbles when you bleed it out, then it stands to reason there's air trapped somewhere in the system.

What justifies replacement of "the entire system"?

Did someone pour oil in the brake reservoir?



Depends on how it's broke. It may pass fluid by simple gravity and/or pumping, yet not build adequate pressure when pumped due to bad seal between pistons (the typical failure).

RESILE

Replacement of system was said to be the entire system..... Brake lines, prop. Valve, brake booster, master cylinder and whole system flush.....( these mechanics really try an take advantage of you). My brake fluid was greenish and they said it was nothing they have ever seen before. Which is why they said replace the whole system because it was contaminated.

But after I bled the brakes the color was normal again.

Not sure why it was greenish.... but almost postive no other liquid was put in it. ( no work is done to this car unless I do it or supervise)

Gravity makes a lot of sense.

I will replace the master cylinder and c if the problem is fixed.

Thanx again for your help.

Ill update once the job is done.

ezone

Or maybe they can't really diagnose a problem.


10 year old brake fluid kinda gets that way. There is probably a thin layer of sediment on the bottom of the reservoir too.

The brake fluid is supposed to be replaced every 3 years.


Be sure to bench bleed it before you bolt it to the car.

RESILE

Hello again. I replaced my master cylinder yesterday. Bench bled it like u said... Bolted it to the car. And then bled the brakes. Everything seems back to normal now except for my brake pedal...its not as stiff as it used to be, but I'm sure if I replace my front pads and rear drums the pedal will be back to normal. Still not sure if my brake lines are inserted wrong.... If I ever find out ill update my post. Thanks again for all your help. I truly appreciate it.

drhawkinz

If the pedal is still soft then you prob still have air in your lines. It should be just as firm if not better than before.