Upgrade 15s to 17s??
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Upgrade 15s to 17s??
Hey. I'm thinking of switching wheels with someone. I have 15" Motegi MR-7s on Potenzas. He has 17" BSAs on 205/40ZR17 Wanli's. What do I need to know beforehand. Winter is coming and I'm not sure if this is the time to upgrade to a bigger wheel size. Do I need to realign or reset camber or anything like that with bigger wheels? Will Z rated tires be any good in winter weather? Any info. would help. Thanks! Sorry for such a noob question.
Autocross Junky
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you shouldnt have to get it alligned. and the Z rating on the tire tells you NOTHING about the traction it has. thats just the speed rating which just tells you how fast you can go with them and not have the tires rip them selfs appart. a better rateing that you should look at is tread wear, the lower the # the better DRY traction the tire has. (In general). For wet and winter traction.... Thats all about the tread design.
Autocross Junky
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Rep Power: 381 Originally posted by Redevil
Good luck trying to use Z rated tires in the snow. Z rated tires are only made for wet and dry weather driving not for snow. You will be sliding and getting no where if you try it.
Good luck trying to use Z rated tires in the snow. Z rated tires are only made for wet and dry weather driving not for snow. You will be sliding and getting no where if you try it.
Like I said, The Speed rating is just that. It tells you NOTHING about the traction that the tire makes in the dry, wet or snow!
Example, My Street tires are Rated ZR (186 mph) my race Tires are rated V (149 mph).
Which do you think makes better traction? Better wet/snow traction?
My street tires are Falken 512's a High performanc All Season Tire.
My Race tires are Falken Azenis Sports a Max performance Summer tire.
So by just telling us the speed rating we cant tell you ANY thing about how well the tires will do in the snow. We need to konw what Type of tires they are(Brand and Model)
Originally posted by Zzyzx
Like I said, The Speed rating is just that. It tells you NOTHING about the traction that the tire makes in the dry, wet or snow!
Example, My Street tires are Rated ZR (186 mph) my race Tires are rated V (149 mph).
Which do you think makes better traction? Better wet/snow traction?
My street tires are Falken 512's a High performanc All Season Tire.
My Race tires are Falken Azenis Sports a Max performance Summer tire.
So by just telling us the speed rating we cant tell you ANY thing about how well the tires will do in the snow. We need to konw what Type of tires they are(Brand and Model)
Like I said, The Speed rating is just that. It tells you NOTHING about the traction that the tire makes in the dry, wet or snow!
Example, My Street tires are Rated ZR (186 mph) my race Tires are rated V (149 mph).
Which do you think makes better traction? Better wet/snow traction?
My street tires are Falken 512's a High performanc All Season Tire.
My Race tires are Falken Azenis Sports a Max performance Summer tire.
So by just telling us the speed rating we cant tell you ANY thing about how well the tires will do in the snow. We need to konw what Type of tires they are(Brand and Model)
Tell me why would they make a Z rated tire for high speed and be used for in the snow? Z rated tires are typically (correct if I'm wrong) softer compound and are used just for summer, therefore not to be used in the winter. Go look at a Z rated tire tread, see any little groves like those on the winter tire? no they are only used for wet, and dry. They do tell alot about the traction of the tire. They definitly won't stick in on the snow. Hey Zzyzx just saw where you were from...Las Vegas, you haven't had a chance to experience what snow is like....
Autocross Junky
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Rep Power: 381 What the Speed rateing means
the UTQG, a better View on a tires possible performance.
Like I said (For the third time) the Speed rating on a tire does not tell you anything about the traction the tires may or may not have in Dry/Wet or Snow conditions! All it tells you is how fast the tire is rated to (So that it wont Destroy its self at those speeds).
What traction a tire gives you in different conditions is Dependant ENTIRLY by the tires compound and Tread design.
Why don’t tire manufacturers make a Z rated snow tire...... Probably because they figure that no one(in their Right mind) would be doing 180+ mph in the snow. So they don’t need to make one. You are almost right in your analogy of Tread compound and design.
The compound of a tire influences its Dry traction. The softer the compound the “Stickier” the tire. Example: Falken 512s have a Tread wear rating of 360, Falken Azenis sports have a tread wear of 200. The Azenis Greatly out performs the 512s in dry traction.
The Tread Pattern influences the tires Wet and Snow traction. Like you said all those little groves (Voids) allow the tire to evacuate water from under the tire for wet traction, and Grip the ice and snow. Once again back to the tires: The 512s are a High performance All season tire, and they have those Voids. The Azenis are a Dry Summer tire and they lack those voids. So, logic would state that the 512s are a much better tire for adverse weather.
Now for the kicker: the Falken 512’s are rated Z (180+) the Azenis are rated V (149). By your logic the 512 should be the better tire for dry weather because they are rated for higher speeds. However, the Azenis Is vastly superior in dry weather traction even though they are rated for lower speeds. Example: I autocross and when I switched form the 512s to the azenis; I dropped 1.5 seconds off my time on average. In autocross dropping more then a second off your times is gold!
So for the fourth time (and hopefully the last) the Speed rating of a tire tells you precisely Squat about how that tire will perform in Dry/Wet or Snow/Ice conditions.
Falken 512 tread
Falken Azenis
also, I fail to see how where I currently live having any bareing as to what type of weather I've driven in. how do you know I didn't grow up in Alaska? or Upstate New York? Think before you try to discredit some one baised totaly on location.
the UTQG, a better View on a tires possible performance.
Like I said (For the third time) the Speed rating on a tire does not tell you anything about the traction the tires may or may not have in Dry/Wet or Snow conditions! All it tells you is how fast the tire is rated to (So that it wont Destroy its self at those speeds).
What traction a tire gives you in different conditions is Dependant ENTIRLY by the tires compound and Tread design.
Why don’t tire manufacturers make a Z rated snow tire...... Probably because they figure that no one(in their Right mind) would be doing 180+ mph in the snow. So they don’t need to make one. You are almost right in your analogy of Tread compound and design.
The compound of a tire influences its Dry traction. The softer the compound the “Stickier” the tire. Example: Falken 512s have a Tread wear rating of 360, Falken Azenis sports have a tread wear of 200. The Azenis Greatly out performs the 512s in dry traction.
The Tread Pattern influences the tires Wet and Snow traction. Like you said all those little groves (Voids) allow the tire to evacuate water from under the tire for wet traction, and Grip the ice and snow. Once again back to the tires: The 512s are a High performance All season tire, and they have those Voids. The Azenis are a Dry Summer tire and they lack those voids. So, logic would state that the 512s are a much better tire for adverse weather.
Now for the kicker: the Falken 512’s are rated Z (180+) the Azenis are rated V (149). By your logic the 512 should be the better tire for dry weather because they are rated for higher speeds. However, the Azenis Is vastly superior in dry weather traction even though they are rated for lower speeds. Example: I autocross and when I switched form the 512s to the azenis; I dropped 1.5 seconds off my time on average. In autocross dropping more then a second off your times is gold!
So for the fourth time (and hopefully the last) the Speed rating of a tire tells you precisely Squat about how that tire will perform in Dry/Wet or Snow/Ice conditions.
Falken 512 tread
Falken Azenis
also, I fail to see how where I currently live having any bareing as to what type of weather I've driven in. how do you know I didn't grow up in Alaska? or Upstate New York? Think before you try to discredit some one baised totaly on location.
Last edited by Zzyzx; Nov 21, 2003 at 07:12 PM.
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Rep Power: 289 Re: Upgrade 15s to 17s??
Originally posted by HYPR DRV
[B]Hey. I'm thinking of switching wheels with someone. I have 15" Motegi MR-7s on Potenzas. He has 17" BSAs on 205/40ZR17 Wanli's.
[B]Hey. I'm thinking of switching wheels with someone. I have 15" Motegi MR-7s on Potenzas. He has 17" BSAs on 205/40ZR17 Wanli's.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Rep Power: 0 zzyzx jus owned you... sorry mang...
good info there zzyzx... my kumho 711's are H rated and they are way better overall than the crappy federals i had on before, which were Z rated...
good info there zzyzx... my kumho 711's are H rated and they are way better overall than the crappy federals i had on before, which were Z rated...
Originally posted by Zzyzx
also, I fail to see how where I currently live having any bareing as to what type of weather I've driven in. how do you know I didn't grow up in Alaska? or Upstate New York? Think before you try to discredit some one baised totaly on location. [/B]
also, I fail to see how where I currently live having any bareing as to what type of weather I've driven in. how do you know I didn't grow up in Alaska? or Upstate New York? Think before you try to discredit some one baised totaly on location. [/B]
Former Las Vegas Native here. And since it snowed for the first time this winter earlier today... I miss it. Hope to be out in March-ish to take a class at Dalys driving school.
Back to topic. Very informative post. One question, My tires have a traction rating. I think my summers are AA and winters are A, or vice versa. Is that a decent indicator or overall grip?
Autocross Junky
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Rep Power: 381 The traction rating is for Straight line wet Traction. AA being the Best C Being the Minimum that the DOT allows. Take a look at the tread wear #. that will tell you the relitive softness of the tire and give you a little Idea to its traciton. (Lower = Stickier).
Treadwear
Treadwear receives a comparative rating based on wear rate of the the tire in field testing following a government specified course. For example, a tire grade of 150 wears 1.5 times as long as a tire graded 100. Actual performance of the tire can vary significantly depending on conditions, driving habits, care, road characteristics, and climate.
Traction
Straight-a-head wet braking traction has been represented by a grade of A, B, or C with A being the highest. In 1997 a new top rating of "AA" has been introduced to indicate even greater wet braking traction. However, due to its newness, this grade will probably be applied initially to new tire lines as they are introduced and later to existing lines which excel in wet braking, but had been limited to the previous top grade of "A". Traction grades do not indicate wet cornering ability.
Temperature
Temperature resistance is graded A, B or C. It represents the tire's resistance to the heat generated by running at high speed. Grade C is the minimum level of performance for all passenger car tires as set under Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. This grade is established for a tire that is properly inflated and not overloaded.
the problem with the UTQG is that each manufacturer got to submit one of their own tires for use as the baseline. what that means for us is that comparing tread wears between Manufacturers is almost worthless (Thank the government) a tire with a tread wear of 200 for one company might equal a tread wear of 120 for another.
Treadwear
Treadwear receives a comparative rating based on wear rate of the the tire in field testing following a government specified course. For example, a tire grade of 150 wears 1.5 times as long as a tire graded 100. Actual performance of the tire can vary significantly depending on conditions, driving habits, care, road characteristics, and climate.
Traction
Straight-a-head wet braking traction has been represented by a grade of A, B, or C with A being the highest. In 1997 a new top rating of "AA" has been introduced to indicate even greater wet braking traction. However, due to its newness, this grade will probably be applied initially to new tire lines as they are introduced and later to existing lines which excel in wet braking, but had been limited to the previous top grade of "A". Traction grades do not indicate wet cornering ability.
Temperature
Temperature resistance is graded A, B or C. It represents the tire's resistance to the heat generated by running at high speed. Grade C is the minimum level of performance for all passenger car tires as set under Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. This grade is established for a tire that is properly inflated and not overloaded.
the problem with the UTQG is that each manufacturer got to submit one of their own tires for use as the baseline. what that means for us is that comparing tread wears between Manufacturers is almost worthless (Thank the government) a tire with a tread wear of 200 for one company might equal a tread wear of 120 for another.
Last edited by Zzyzx; Nov 25, 2003 at 11:43 AM.
Originally posted by Zzyzx
the problem with the UTQG is that each manufacturer got to submit one of their own tires for use as the baseline. what that means for us is that comparing tread wears between Manufacturers is almost worthless (Thank the government) a tire with a tread wear of 200 for one company might equal a tread wear of 120 for another. [/B]
the problem with the UTQG is that each manufacturer got to submit one of their own tires for use as the baseline. what that means for us is that comparing tread wears between Manufacturers is almost worthless (Thank the government) a tire with a tread wear of 200 for one company might equal a tread wear of 120 for another. [/B]
Zzyzx Peace 
man. Your right. What I was trying to get at is that they don't have Z rated tires for all season and winter. Most if not all Z rated tires are on high performance tires used for only the summer. So why would you use them in the winter, I was just trying to use common sense. And I didn't mean anything bad by living in Vegas.
Hope everything is cool, Zzyzx. Once again your right!
man. Your right. What I was trying to get at is that they don't have Z rated tires for all season and winter. Most if not all Z rated tires are on high performance tires used for only the summer. So why would you use them in the winter, I was just trying to use common sense. And I didn't mean anything bad by living in Vegas. Hope everything is cool, Zzyzx. Once again your right!
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