Rear Control arms, rear tire wear early models the early models had an issue with the rear control arms (upper) and have a tendency of rapid rear tire wear

Negative Camber?

Old 03-10-2012
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Negative Camber?

I have a 2006 LX Sedan.
A while back I had a flat tire(hit a nail that was in the middle of a country road, random as crap, tire deflated in a matter of seconds though)
The tire was replaced with a new one.
Shortly after a weird noise came up, all the other tires were kinda worn and getting close to replacing, so I took it to the dealership to see what was wrong.To my surprise I found out that the noise was due to the fact that the new tire was cupped SEVERELY.

Now I replaced all the tires(They were going to charge me 100$ for the diagnostics if I didn't), my issue is that I've always noticed that the car has some negative camber. I thought it was odd, but it's not super excessive, so I didn't think anything of it, until I started seeing posts about faulty control arms causing negative camber.

The previous owner was a nice lady, but an alcoholic and hardly ever left the house...I'm sure she had no car sense what-so-ever.I'm wondering, does my car have these faulty arms? If so is there anyway that I can figure out if they have been fixed or not without taking it to a mechanic?

I haven't had any issues with the new tires yet(8,000 miles on them), but I really don't want to have to deal with that deafening road noise caused by the cupping.
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Old 03-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

read the tb
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Old 03-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Honda bulletin 08-001

BTW, I haven't seen tires with true tread "cupping" since probably the 70s. What you saw is "chopping" or "feathering" the edges, every other block of tread is worn high/low.


Certain tread designs are far more prone to chopping the edges. Large, blocky tread on the edges will do it quickly.

Infrequent, irregular tire rotation allows it to happen too, on almost any FWD car.
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Old 03-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

I don't know much about tires, I'm much more experienced with whats under the hood than under the body lol.
"Cupping" is the term the Honda guy used(Guess he was a mechanic, he came from the back holding my "Cupped"/Chopped tire and let me feel how uneven it was.)

Also I am due for a tire rotation, should I go to a dealer for this to make sure it's done right, or is it simple enough to take to my local mechanic(or do myself at my friends auto-shop)
As in, is there anything to it other than swapping the tires, or is there other stuff that needs to be done too?
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Re: Negative Camber?

I don't know much about tires, I'm much more experienced with whats under the hood than under the body lol.
"Cupping" is the term the Honda guy used(Guess he was a mechanic, he came from the back holding my "Cupped"/Chopped tire and let me feel how uneven it was.)


Most of the people that use terms like that have never experienced what it really is. The term is used as a catch-all, or a word that almost everyone has heard of.
My manager and another tech use the term, and I know they haven't ever seen what cupping really is. The young guys learn the same terms from them. Sad.

Also I am due for a tire rotation, should I go to a dealer for this to make sure it's done right, or is it simple enough to take to my local mechanic(or do myself at my friends auto-shop)
As in, is there anything to it other than swapping the tires, or is there other stuff that needs to be done too?

Simply move them front-rear and get all of the lug nuts properly tightened to 80 ft/lb. You would THINK this is a simple enough operation, but sadly it is easy to screw this up for some people.

Check the brakes while the wheels are off.

Some people in the rust belt like to smear the hubs with anti-seize so the wheels don't rust on.
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Old 03-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Previous owner used the brakes a LOT, already replaced the front brake pads and everything checked out while I was there.

I do need to check the rear drum brakes though, anything I should look for?
I've heard that drum brakes have a really long life though.
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Old 03-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Originally Posted by jordan1794 View Post
I do need to check the rear drum brakes though, anything I should look for?
I've heard that drum brakes have a really long life though.
Pop the drums off and look. If the lining on any shoe is at 1/32", replace the set. It would probably take 5 sets of front brakes or more to get to that point.


I looked at an Accord last week that had well over 200k on it, and it was noted there was 2mm on the rear brakes......The linings on the shoes start their life at only about 4 or 5 mm thick.

2mm on pads is time for replacement, but I think there is a ton of life left on shoes that are that thin.

We don't even keep shoes in stock because we never sell them.
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Old 03-31-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Attached TSB
Attached Files
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Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Ok so I had a coupon for a 30$ oil change and multi-point inspection and I used it today.I have noticed that the road noise is coming back so it was kinda perfect timing.
When they came back they told me my back left tire was cupped(same tire as before) and that I needed an alignment because the camber was off, they told me I needed to replace the Rear upper control arms because the original ones can't be adjusted.

I thought "Wow, does that sound familiar or what?"

They want to charge me 420$ for the arms(not including labor) and they want me to buy a new back left tire for 110$ even though I just bought 4 new tires from them in october.

These rear upper control arms, should I really have to pay for them?Unless I mis-understand they should be covered by the warranty as said in the TSB below.

And, also according to the TSB, shouldn't a new tire be covered as well?

I brought this up to the guy and he completely avoided the question and repeated that the camber was off and I needed the new arms to fix it.

I have 61,500~ miles on the car, and ~6,000 miles since I replaced the tires.
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Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

The upper arm set from Honda is only $206.82 USD.
Part # 04523-SNA-A01
Contains BOTH arms and hardware.
The arms in the parts catalog are the original arms, not the updated ones.
(You can go to Majestics website www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/ and put in that part number and see what they would sell to you for too.)
You MUST get the 4 wheel alignment done with this.

The new arms are not adjustable either, they are just a different length to correct the excessive negative rear camber.

The only way any of it would be covered by warranty is if the car is still within warranty.
Maybe call the Honda customer service 1-800 number and see if they will assist you since you say you had the problem prior. If the dealer didn't fix the root of the problem while the car was within warranty, you may have a legit case. Be calm and professional, see what happens.

Once a tire has become noisy, it usually stays noisy for the rest of its life. The only way to get it quiet is to replace it. Some people will put up with the noise and avoid the price of tires.

The $420 price (plus tax!!!) would probably get you the arms and alignment here, installed and rolling out the door.... (Not the tires though.)


HTH
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Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Perhaps the cost includes labor, but it does NOT include the alignment, they want to charge me another 70$ for that.

I can scan the document and put it up tomorrow.
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Re: Negative Camber?

I talked to someone from the dealership via text chat on their website, they couldn't help me but pointed me to someone else, I think rather than get run-around I'll just call that number first.

EDIT:Called the honda service number, they said they have opened a case and think they might be able to cover me out of warranty considering that the issue was not diagnosed when I bought new tires during warranty.
This is supplemented by the fact that I found out the previous owner had brought the car in and bought new tires for the same reason.

Last edited by jordan1794; 04-10-2012 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 04-10-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Originally Posted by jordan1794 View Post
I talked to someone from the dealership via text chat on their website, they couldn't help me but pointed me to someone else, I think rather than get run-around I'll just call that number first.

EDIT:Called the honda service number, they said they have opened a case and think they might be able to cover me out of warranty considering that the issue was not diagnosed when I bought new tires during warranty.
This is supplemented by the fact that I found out the previous owner had brought the car in and bought new tires for the same reason.
Oh, good for you.
Hopefully this will work out in your favor.



Sounds like your dealer could be a little less than---......--umm, never mind.

Be sure of what the customer service rep states should happen, and make sure your dealer follows through on their end.

The new arms should have the letter "C" inked in white, if you want to look.

I might make scratch marks in the rear toe adjusters to make sure it really got the toe adjusted.




Good luck.
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Old 04-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Sounds like your dealer could be a little less than---......--umm, never mind.

I actually think american honda isn't happy with them, they called back today to confirm that I was quoted 420$ for the repair, and when I first said it they seemed surprised as well.
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Old 04-11-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Did you ask the rep what the repair should have been priced at? (I am aware that dealers are free to set their own prices, but that was sort of way out there.)

I hate hearing stuff like this, it gives the rest of us a bad name.


***My opinions ONLY here***
If the customer service reps offer to do a split (they buy parts, you pay for labor, 50/50 split cost, or something along those lines), try to get a firm price number agreed upon with the rep before you go to the dealer.
You already know the dealer personnel are trying to gouge you, so you can bet they may still try to make your part pay far more than the job is worth...if Honda corporate doesn't tell them otherwise.
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Re: Negative Camber?

I didn't think to ask, honestly they called at 8:00 and I was still asleep(spring break)

But the lady seemed a little rushed too, she said that they were talking with the dealership and that she would call back tomorrow.
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Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

American Honda has agreed to cover the cost of the repair, but my dealership has a 100$ "diagnostic fee" that they still want to charge me. The lady I spoke to at american honda said it's basically a deductible, but I'm going to take it...better to pay 100$ than 420$...
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Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

*!!












*Erased my "less than stellar" reply, along with erasing a few four letter opinions.

/filter
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Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

American honda called back today to make sure the dealer contacted me lol.
This time she actually said herself that it was one of their problem dealerships, and that they have had a lot of issues with them.
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Old 04-13-2012
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Re: Negative Camber?

Seems odd that the person on the phone would divulge that information.

Around here, there are other dealers 45 minutes away in 3 directions.
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Re: Negative Camber?

I quote her:
"[nervous chuckle] yeah, I was just calling to make sure they had called you. they are one of our problem dealerships and we've had a lot of issues in the past"

I think part of it is that she has called me 4 times in the last 3 days, and she wanted to explain why she was calling so often.
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Old 03-11-2014
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Re: Negative Camber?

For anyone that stumbles across this thread, the (US Class Action Settlement) warranty extension period has now officially ended.

All issues are now the customers' responsibility, not Hondas.
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