Head gasket questions
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I bought a used 04 Civic about 2 weeks ago and the head gasket blew on me yesterday . I have been reading forums since yesterday on the issue trying to educate my self on how this can affect my engine because I ended up having to drive the car home after the fact. I wanted to give a run down of the events and the symptoms my car is having and get some more specific information if possible.
The first thing that happened was that my car began to over heat.
I popped the hood and noticed there was a little bit of coolant dripping off of my overflow tank, but there was no obvious leaks. I checked the oil and it was a perfectly normal color. At this point I figured it was just a leaky hose or an unseen crack somewhere.
I drove the car about 2 miles to the nearest store and grabbed some antifreeze. It ran very hot for about 2 minutes before I made it to the store.
I filled the radiator and drove the 15 minutes or so home. The car did not over heat at all at this point.
When I got home I checked the exhaust. No steam, color or sweet smell was detectable. I let the car cool and removed the radiator cap and had my wife rev the engine. First a steady stream of steam started rising and finally antifreeze started gushing out.
And finally today I cranked the car for about 10-15 seconds to move it onto my concrete slab to work on it and it was idling very badly. The car was shaking pretty bad from the moment I cranked it and drove it onto the slab. The shaking seemed to diminish in the moments before I put it in park.
My biggest concern is the shaking when I cranked it today. I am hoping I did not damage my engine. What kind of damage can result from the antifreeze getting into the engine? Was the 15 minute trip home enough to cause significant damage? Is the fact that there is no visible oil/antifreeze mixture a more hopeful situation? I've gathered from reading around that various failures in different parts of the gasket yields different symptoms but are some more harmful to the engine than others? Could the shaking just have been the initial burning up of the antifreeze that had pooled in the engine or is it indicative of something worse?
I have a good friend who is a seasoned mechanic coming tomorrow to remove the head for me, but any info/tips would be helpful. I want to know what sort of problem I might be looking at having to deal with. Thanks
The first thing that happened was that my car began to over heat.
I popped the hood and noticed there was a little bit of coolant dripping off of my overflow tank, but there was no obvious leaks. I checked the oil and it was a perfectly normal color. At this point I figured it was just a leaky hose or an unseen crack somewhere.
I drove the car about 2 miles to the nearest store and grabbed some antifreeze. It ran very hot for about 2 minutes before I made it to the store.
I filled the radiator and drove the 15 minutes or so home. The car did not over heat at all at this point.
When I got home I checked the exhaust. No steam, color or sweet smell was detectable. I let the car cool and removed the radiator cap and had my wife rev the engine. First a steady stream of steam started rising and finally antifreeze started gushing out.
And finally today I cranked the car for about 10-15 seconds to move it onto my concrete slab to work on it and it was idling very badly. The car was shaking pretty bad from the moment I cranked it and drove it onto the slab. The shaking seemed to diminish in the moments before I put it in park.
My biggest concern is the shaking when I cranked it today. I am hoping I did not damage my engine. What kind of damage can result from the antifreeze getting into the engine? Was the 15 minute trip home enough to cause significant damage? Is the fact that there is no visible oil/antifreeze mixture a more hopeful situation? I've gathered from reading around that various failures in different parts of the gasket yields different symptoms but are some more harmful to the engine than others? Could the shaking just have been the initial burning up of the antifreeze that had pooled in the engine or is it indicative of something worse?
I have a good friend who is a seasoned mechanic coming tomorrow to remove the head for me, but any info/tips would be helpful. I want to know what sort of problem I might be looking at having to deal with. Thanks
#2
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Re: Head gasket questions
I popped the hood and noticed there was a little bit of coolant dripping off of my overflow tank
It ran very hot for about 2 minutes before I made it to the store.
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What kind of tips/tricks you need? There's a pretty good one in my signature for hg replacement and whatnot
#5
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Re: Head gasket questions
The first thing that happened was that my car began to over heat. I popped the hood and noticed there was a little bit of coolant dripping off of my overflow tank, but there was no obvious leaks. I checked the oil and it was a perfectly normal color. At this point I figured it was just a leaky hose or an unseen crack somewhere. I drove the car about 2 miles to the nearest store and grabbed some antifreeze. It ran very hot for about 2 minutes before I made it to the store.
I filled the radiator and drove the 15 minutes or so home. The car did not over heat at all at this point.
I filled the radiator and drove the 15 minutes or so home. The car did not over heat at all at this point.
Testing before head removal:
1) Rent (free) a Block Tester from Autozone or other major parts store with a tool loan program. You'll need to buy the testing fluid ($10) . Do it before removing head..if it's not a blown head gasket this will save you a lot of time and trouble. If it is a blown head gasket you will have plenty of fluid left over to test again after repair.
2) Do a cylinders compression test. Head gasket failure located between the pistons can cause compression loss. If the block test is positive for head gasket leak.and there is low compression in one or more cylinders.. carefully inspect the head gasket all over and especially the area between the cylinders. If those areas (between cylinders) of the head gasket look good then it's very likely any loss of compression would be a damaged piston or rings caused by overheating.
3) Check spark plugs (after removing) for coolant and/or oil.
Possibly? any over-heating is not good, especially with aluminum heads. May have damaged a piston or as I stated above .. possible head gasket failure located between pistons causing poor compression/poor engine performance.
I've gathered from reading around that various failures in different parts of the gasket yields different symptoms but are some more harmful to the engine than others? Could the shaking just have been the initial burning up of the antifreeze that had pooled in the engine or is it indicative of something worse?
If block test confirms emissions breach past head gasket and you remove head be prepared to:
1) Bring cylinder head to a machine shop for:
a. milling/resurfacing to straighten
b. valve job
c new valve seals
d. cleaning and inspect for cracks
2) OEM Gasket kit that includes:
a, head gasket
b. exhaust manifold gasket
c. intake manifold gasket
d. valve cover, spark plug holes, valve cover bolts o-ring gaskets
e. cam seal gasket
If your timing belt is near replacement.. then might as well plan on doing a timing belt kit to
Last edited by Wankenstein; 09-11-2015 at 03:53 AM.
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Head gasket questions
If, you do end up replacing the head gasket expect to find at least a small amount of coolant (knowledge passed on to me by Ezone) in the oil but not enough to make it turn into a brownish, frothy milkshake.
The blown gasket itself doesn't normally allow coolant to enter the oil, but the act of removing the head from the block can.
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Thank you to everyone who replied. I did run the heater maxed on that 2 miles stretch but to no great avail. I guess what's done is done now. I will keep these tips in mind if it happens again.
My good friend came over yesterday and pulled the head for me already. He actually specializes on Civics. He had the car in pieces and the head off within 2-3 hours. The failure was in the very center of the gasket between the 2 pistons. He said it looked like someone did a patch job on the engine without getting the head machined. All of the gaskets, seals and timing belt looked new. The head came off the block "too easily". He said that is another good indicator that it was probably patched recently. I skipped getting the gasket kit since everything was spanking new. I didn't have the extra $$$ to opt for the kit so we just grabbed a new head gasket and some copper sealant. The head is out to the shop and now I just have to wait. I paid about $50 for parts, $50 for machining and best of all he only charged me $150 for the labor (we go waay back). The local shops quoted me up to 10x what I ended up paying.
My good friend came over yesterday and pulled the head for me already. He actually specializes on Civics. He had the car in pieces and the head off within 2-3 hours. The failure was in the very center of the gasket between the 2 pistons. He said it looked like someone did a patch job on the engine without getting the head machined. All of the gaskets, seals and timing belt looked new. The head came off the block "too easily". He said that is another good indicator that it was probably patched recently. I skipped getting the gasket kit since everything was spanking new. I didn't have the extra $$$ to opt for the kit so we just grabbed a new head gasket and some copper sealant. The head is out to the shop and now I just have to wait. I paid about $50 for parts, $50 for machining and best of all he only charged me $150 for the labor (we go waay back). The local shops quoted me up to 10x what I ended up paying.
#9
OF top 99.5% creator (Formerly of the Puffinblunts variety)
Re: Head gasket questions
Good to hear. Really helps to have someone that knows their way around a Civic engine.
Most likely the previous owner did not bring the cylinder head to a machine shop for resurfacing during the suspected head gasket repair and/or didn't clean the block surface off well enough.
Did you or your friend check the engine block for warping with a straight edge and feeler gauges? Very unlikely that the block is warped but, you never know unless you check, You can probably get away with the old exhaust manifold gasket but, the intake manifold gasket should be replaced... you might end up with an intake leak and extra work for not installing a $10 intake gasket.
Did your friend drain the coolant out of the engine block by removing the drain bolt in the back of the engine block? Doing that combined with draining the radiator through the stopcock or removing lower radiator hose is the best way to drain the coolant.
You're only getting a resurfacing at the machine shop? Did the shop check for possible valve seating leaks or bent valves? Are the valve stem seals in good shape?
I know you stated you are trying to save money (and who isn't?) on the repair but, at the same time you don't want have to do this again prematurely due to possibly missing important steps.
I'm not trying to be a ball buster.. just trying to help you avoid possible pitfalls.
Most likely the previous owner did not bring the cylinder head to a machine shop for resurfacing during the suspected head gasket repair and/or didn't clean the block surface off well enough.
Did you or your friend check the engine block for warping with a straight edge and feeler gauges? Very unlikely that the block is warped but, you never know unless you check, You can probably get away with the old exhaust manifold gasket but, the intake manifold gasket should be replaced... you might end up with an intake leak and extra work for not installing a $10 intake gasket.
Did your friend drain the coolant out of the engine block by removing the drain bolt in the back of the engine block? Doing that combined with draining the radiator through the stopcock or removing lower radiator hose is the best way to drain the coolant.
You're only getting a resurfacing at the machine shop? Did the shop check for possible valve seating leaks or bent valves? Are the valve stem seals in good shape?
I know you stated you are trying to save money (and who isn't?) on the repair but, at the same time you don't want have to do this again prematurely due to possibly missing important steps.
I'm not trying to be a ball buster.. just trying to help you avoid possible pitfalls.
Last edited by Wankenstein; 09-12-2015 at 09:41 AM.
#10
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These gaskets almost always fail between a coolant and exhaust port and almost never mix coolant and oil. I would say the bad idle was from burning coolant. Did it pop an engine light with any misfire codes? Your best bet would likely be to perform a compression test on all four cylinders to be sure the gasket has a leak. I doubt 15 minutes would have done any significant internal damage unless you were pegged into the red the whole time. If you do the gasket you're going to want to have the head checked by a machine shop regardless. Good luck!
Edit: did t see the previous 8 replies somehow, glad you got a helpful buddy!!
Edit: did t see the previous 8 replies somehow, glad you got a helpful buddy!!
Last edited by MassCivic; 09-12-2015 at 10:36 AM.
#12
OF top 99.5% creator (Formerly of the Puffinblunts variety)
Re: Head gasket questions
MassCivic and Mad Dog Tannen
OP's statement 21 hours ago: "The head is out to the shop and now I just have to wait. I paid about $50 for parts, $50 for machining and best of all he only charged me $150 for the labor (we go waay back). The local shops quoted me up to 10x what I ended up paying."
OP's statement 21 hours ago: "The head is out to the shop and now I just have to wait. I paid about $50 for parts, $50 for machining and best of all he only charged me $150 for the labor (we go waay back). The local shops quoted me up to 10x what I ended up paying."
#15
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
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