Wankenstein

2004 Civic Value Sedan. A/T. 65K miles

Mom's car... she said horn went off intermittently a couple times in the past week while she was parked and yesterday when she opened the trunk. This just started happening recently. She doesn't have the key fob enabled and only has stock passive alarm.
Possibly a sensor losing contact?

mcnoople

I don't recall VP civic's having any security beyond immobilizer. I don't even recall them having power door locks. So I am going to throw out a complete WAG and blame it on work recently done to the steering wheel.

ezone

Airbag recall just done?

Take it back...

Wankenstein

To be honest the passive alarm was a guess on my part but, she does have a FOB that needs to be re-programmed that did activate the locks.
I brought it in for new tires a couple months ago and before I did I noticed the steering wheel was off almost a quarter of a turn. After new tires, balancing and alignment the wheel is still offset almost 1/4 turn.

Wankenstein

Ezone, I think you nailed it (yet again). She did have an airbag recall done a couple months ago... that would also explain why the steering wheel is offset. I'll have her bring it in and I will call them.

Thanks for the replies

ezone

How much did someone PAY to have this so called "alignment" done?

Why did they not get this right? WHY is the steering wheel off so far?



Step 1, start with the steering wheel centered then spin it all the way to lock one side, note position, then spin it all the way to the opposite lock and note position. If the wheel is centered on the rack it should come up equal on each end, and if the wheel got moved on the column it would come up drastically unequal between each end.

Make sense?
No, it does not. The wheel is not removed to do the recall, only the airbag itself is removed from the wheel.

Wankenstein

$50 for four wheel alignment done at a local private owner garage. The steering wheel was off center before alignment was done. My thought was the alignment would correct it..it didn't. I plan to take the car back for realignment because it still pulls to the right (more than normal). The steering wheel was never off center until after the air bag recall was done.. I didn't drive or ride in the car for a least a month after they did it so I didn't notice it right away.

I'll check it but, it may not be today.

What do you suggest if it's truly offset after proper four wheel alignment?

Wankenstein

I just spoke (by phone) with the local Honda dealer service manager, They charge a $125 diagnostic fee that doesn't go towards any labor or parts needed, I related to him that an air-bag recall was done by them two months ago and I was told by a good source (no names or sites mentioned) it's likely the horn issue is related He said that it's probable but, doubtful and they will assess the air bag install first and not charge her if that's the case, If not, they will move forward in the diagnosis and repair and charge accordingly.

We've had a lot of rain for the past two weeks here is it possible the hood latch mechanism is the issue? Watched a video of this issue on an Odyssey and the owner recommends to just disconnect the hood latch sensor:

mcnoople

A VP civic will not have a switch integrated into the hood latch. Does the key fob look like a normal honda key fob? It would look something like this.




If it isn't factory then there is no telling what it is up to. I have seen way more improperly/poorly installed aftermarket security systems than I have seen properly installed ones.

Wankenstein

My mom is bringing the car to my place later today. I told her to re-book the appointment at dealer to Friday. I will report back on the FOB and wheel position.

Wankenstein

1) Ezone: while parked I centered the wheels/tires and the steering wheel was centered. I turned the steering wheel full lock right and left and the position of the wheel as well as the radius was equal on both side from center. The steering wheel doesn't feel or visually look this way while driving however, it's hard to find roads that aren't crowned around here. I think I may have over-exaggerated the 1/4 turn offset as well. Even on flat roads while driving the wheel looks offset.

2) She has two Honda brand FOBs that were given to her by previous owner. and look similar to the one linked. My mom said the FOBs never worked even after replacing batteries. She hasn't tried to get it programmed.

3) There isn't a hood latch sensor. I spoke with a dealer mechanic again and he said the '04 value package has an anti-theft device but not an alarm. He said the car
most likely came with a set of FOBs.

4) I tried to simulate what my mom did when the horn went off on her. The only way I got it to go off was by manually locking all the doors except the driver's door and then using the key to lock the driver's door from the outside. I turned the the horn off by starting the car. All four doors do not lock/unlock automatically by using key in driver's door .. is there a master control or blue box (like the ones on 6th gens)? : http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-00-OEM-US...-/271498852603

5) My mom was incorrect.. the $125 diagnostic fee would be applied towards repair.
I visually checked horn fuse and relay (did not multimeter test) and both seem fine.

ezone

What was not proper about the alignment done at the local garage, other than apparently it was not complete?

Why wasn't their work as good as someone elses work?

Why can't they provide you with acceptable and reasonable answers to your questions?


I'd have all the answers ready before you came to pick up the car. If the steering wheel is crooked and it pulls after I did the alignment, I'd have a damn good answer for why.


MORE THAN NORMAL????? Pulling is not normal.




At the same time, you need to understand there is a difference between a pull and steering off center.

A pull is when you let go of the steering wheel and the car dives for one ditch or the other.

The wheel can be off center without any pull.

If you manually force the wheel to center position and the car veers toward the ditch, that is not a pull.
Still no. Unless your recall was done by some....-----I can't see this at all. We do NOT pull the wheel off to do the recall.

Did mom smack a parking block/curb/pothole on the way to the shop? Or any time around then?
(My mom is so bad I refuse to ride with her. She tried to kill me and Dad on the way to dinner a few years ago....never again.)




Those are mutually exclusive terms? Does that person even listen to what they are saying?
LOL
Does your hood latch have a switch in it? (Probably not) And what does rain have to do with it? Did you get it flooded?



A crown of a few degrees should not throw the wheel off by much.... a few millimeters at the rim of the steering wheel for each couple degrees of road tilt?

A quarter turn is 90 degrees.
How far is it really off now?


Catalog says stock VP does not have remotes.
A stock VP does not have power locks, so how can it have remotes?

Whoa. This ain't right for a VP. VP should not have power locks nor power windows.

PM the VIN to me, I want to see if this is really a VP car.

Wankenstein

I usually buy tires with lifetime balancing, rotation (of the tires) and lifetime alignments (of the car) at either Tires Plus or Firestone (Bridgestone is parent company) However, they have raised their lifetime alignment price to $200 and I didn't want my mom to pay that much.I had some previous work done at the privately owned garage and they do good work. The alignment done there was the first time I used them for such and they said I can bring back when I get a chance to. I can't say whether their work is as good or not as Firestone/TP: who usually do very good alignments... balancing not so much so, now I always ask for road-force balancing. I plan to bring it back in tomorrow

By normal I mean the slight right drift that all cars have that I assume is in-case someone falls asleep at the wheel and the car will drift off the road..just my guess and don't know if that is a fact.

The mechanic at dealership told me the same thing today

While her driving is not as good as it used to be.. she hasn't hit a car or anything else in over a year.

No switch in hood latch that I could find. Moisture may have effected a sensor contact ..WAG. Did not get flooded.

While driving straight on a flat road the wheel appears to be about 10 degrees or slightly more off.

The person who sold the car to my mom ( I helped my mom through the inspection, bringing it to a mechanic and negotiation) three years ago said it was her mother's car who recently passed away and she inherited it. Very believable as the car only had 50k when we purchased it, drove and rode like new.. only issue was some clear coat fading on rear bumper. She gave my mom two keys and two FOB's and said she didn't know why the keyless remotes weren't working. My guess is the previous owner may have purchased them thinking they would work for the car but, obviously didn't.
So, if this indeed is a value package then there isn't any actuators that are activated from the drivers/passenger side key cylinder?

As it stands now I can't lock the passenger door by itself from the outside..only the driver's side.

Okay. Will be tomorrow.

Wankenstein

Very possible. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or experience to deal with this issue so, she's bringing it in tomorrow to dealership. Normally dealership would be the last option but, in this case might be the best way. Hopefully,, it will get traced back to the air bag recall install (as mentioned by Ezone) and will be free of charge. Otherwise, let the gauging begin..Lol.

Wankenstein

Car back from dealer and it turned out to be the door switch assembly
part# 35400-S5A-013 ..price $9.21. They charged for 1.4 hours labor = $178.
$190 to replace a friggin' dome light. Dealers are really *******s.. not the mechanics.. just the owners.
This seems to be the correct fix because there is anti-theft engaged beeping sound now when key is inserted into ignition.. it was absent for past few weeks according to my mom. They confirmed the VP doesn't have door lock actuators or key-less entry.

They also commented/suggested that it needs an oil pump and timing belt kit. (dicks)
My mom declined.

ezone

Door jamb switch?

Most of that is the diag fee, not the repair.

OR you could look at it like:
You're paying $9 for the hammer, and $175 for the person that knows where to hit it.
LOL

Wankenstein

And that is why dealers are the last resort and most people hate them for service.
Hopefully, if anyone that encounters the same issue and is looking online for answers they will come across this thread and avoid the dealer's dong.

Wankenstein

Looks like problem is not solved. My mom set the horn went off again when she put her hands on the wheel before starting car. Definitely sounds like it might be a loose connection caused by airbag recall service. Really, you never know with that azzhule (dealer)..they might of even did it intentionally to gauge her later on. I am going to demand they fix it right without further cost as they misdiagnosed the issue.

A month ago I purchased a gasket at the sales department and on my way out there was a middle aged male customer cussing out the service manager right in front of the building accusing them of blatant ripoff and gauging.
My friend was a loyal Acura and Honda owner for three decades and he went their to purchase a new Civic in cash and they wouldn't budge from their retail price. He told them to **** off and purchased a new Mazda 3 (without my encouragement) for thousands less.

Wankenstein

We're taking it back in today and just got off the phone with the service manager.
The service manager mentioned that the car's anti-theft device may now be in the factory delivered: Valet Mode. He said that before we purchased it the previous owner disabled Valet Mode and now it's been reset (possibly when I did valve cover gasket and cam plug repair...disconnected negative terminal for 24 hours) back to valet mode. I've previously disconnected the negative terminal few times before for prior repairs and never had this issue.

Found this statement on CF post regarding Valet Mode:
"Originally Posted by plcpeggy
I know this is an older thread, but I recently ran into this problem and wanted to share my solution. From a 2001-2005 civic alarm manual the situation you describe, where the dome light is still working, panic button working, and you can see the alarm LED blink ONCE if you lock the doors means you have gotten your alarm into "valet" mode. To release from valet mode, put your key in the ignition 3 times (in out in out in out) within three seconds. If you do this correctly, the LED will blink twice, and your system should be rearmed. Sounds weird, but it works and is from an official Civic manual. FYI, to put your car in valet mode, you do the same proceedure, all within 3 seconds. The light will blink once, indicating it is in Valet mode."
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ill-locks.html

Nothing in the owner's manual related to valet mode or anti theft alarm other than radio alarm code... which I programmed correctly. If that turns out to be the reprogramming back into valet mode I intend to ask the service manager to ring it up as courtesy fix and refund my mom's payment.
Peggy's a girl and she figured it out.. you dudes should be ashamed of yourselves for not solving this before spending my mom's social security money.. how do you feel now?..LOL..JK

*** For future reference the value package does have a FOB that arms/disarms the factory anti-theft device. It doe not have door actuators and therefor the FOB does not remotely lock/unlock doors. They dealer installed a battery and back on my mom's FOB and inserted a code to enable valet mode. My mom will most likely want it disarmed and back to the way it was before... insert key into ignition 3 times within three seconds.
You'd think that Honda would have put this shizzit in the owner's manual... $200 for free fix is not cool.