bimmuvfab

Hi folks! Obviously, I'm new. More of a lurker than a poster, but thanks to all who provide advice here. I know the frustration of another new poster asking a long and boring question, so I will use bullet points to get to the point.

2005 Civic EX SE D17A2 155k miles

• Removed head gasket, tb, tb tensioner, water pump two weekends ago
• Followed Honda manual (more or less) and DIY's from this forum
• Relieved fuel pressure
• Removed head with IM on it and disassembled on bench
• Took head to machine shop - machined, tested, valves done
• Removed the injector plate from the plastic IM and cleaned with carb cleaner and brush (just the plate, not the plastic)
• Reinstalled injector plate, did not change gaskets on the injector plate
• Installed IM on head with new IM gasket
• Reinstalled head with IM attached using new head screws soaked in oil
• Torqued to spec
• Installed and re-adjusted valves, etc. yada, installed timing belt
• Everything back together this past Sunday.

Ok, thats taking her apart and putting her back together.
Here are symptoms

• Crank her up - takes a while to start first time (fuel pressure probably)
• (Starts fine now)
• CEL/MIL on right away - P0113. If I unplug the IAT or plug it in, it doesn't matter
• Engine surges 1000-3500 rpm
• Found loose ground cable (the one near the thermostat), fixed
• Still surges, but more consistent 1000-3000 rpm
• Car sounds OK, no significant valve pinging.
• When the car shuts off, it shutters a bit
• After fixing the ground - P0113 goes away, get P0122 (TPS)
• If I remove TPS, revs to 4000 rpm and stays there
• If I remove MAP, shuts off
• If I remove IACV connector, it still surges but in a much tighter bandwidth and and amplitude as well
• If I put hand over throttle body, there is good suction. Car does not cutoff when I do this.
• After it warms up, white smoke from under radiator cap
• If cap is off, it blows coolant and bubbles out of radiator as it surges. I am praying this is just air finding its way out
• Exhaust manifold seems pretty hot, but maybe that is because it is revving up
• Can't find vacuum leak but haven't tested the IM gasket yet

Possible screw-ups during the job:

• Should I have replaced the gaskets between injector plate and IM?
• When putting the timing belt on, accidentally got the timing 180 degrees off. Belt was not on when this happened. I found it quickly and gingerly returned everything to position.
• Didn't replace injector o-rings
• Did not replace that circular seal and the end of the exhaust manifold, used old one
• Had a hard time getting the fuel relay out, hopefully didn't ding anything up
• nicked the lower IACV coolant line. It isn't leaking, wrapped with electrical tape until I can fix

My scanner is basic and I will be getting a live data scanner tomorrow so I can troubleshoot sensors. I was pretty careful throughout the whole process. Have had no problems with this car (except the head gasket). Never had a bad sensor, throttle body is clean, EGR port cleaned out.

Many thanks for any thoughts or possible paths to follow suggestions.

ezone

It should have died when you cap off the throttle body. It's getting air from somewhere other than the throttle body. Vacuum leak.

kinakoes2

+1

With a 155K motor (which is only 10K more than my own D17A2 5-spd), if you're going to disturb a gasket getting it off, it's best to just replace it. IME exhaust gaskets are the worst for reuse, but when cork- or paper-based gaskets get old, they almost never seal again.

A quick way to find where the leak is, is to use electrical contact cleaner -- low evap point, will not stain and immediately turns to gas, which gets sucked into the leak... and burns, causing a rise in idle speed. CRC makes a good one; make sure you use the one for *electrical* contacts. Hold your hand over the TB as before, and spray in suspected areas (IM joint, any vac hoses, etc). This will find the exact cause of the leak, so you don't have to repurchase all your gaskets just to fix it.

ezone

This thing is already running at some insane RPM, isn't it?

I might just stick a length of hose up to my ear, then hunt for the sucking noise with the other end.


Or use a smoke test:

nsrhonda89

Make sure that the two vacuum lines are connected just below the throttle body.

bimmuvfab

Thanks for the comments. I've triple-checked the hose connections but haven't done a thorough job inspecting the hoses themselves.

How prone are these plastic manifolds to cracking? I torqued exactly to spec but just curious if an inspection of the manifold housing itself is in order?

bimmuvfab

OK, I found the problem (finally). After checking all of the hoses for the umpteenth time, I took my mirror and found a 3" long crack in the radiused portion of the intake manifold, driver's side facing the head by the PCV valve.

So, out she comes again. I'll report back.

ezone

OUCH!
Post a pic if you can.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I gone done been on this here forum for a long time and I've not once read of an intake manifold cracking. That really sucks good luck on the fix and post a picture like ezone says.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

glad you found the issue (not common...)
g'luck!

kinakoes2

Aw, man! Not much you can do for a crack in that manifold (epoxy isn't really a long-term option or one you want to sell to someone). Wonder if it was just overtorqued by someone working on a HG job, perhaps... at any rate, sucks and not just vacuum.

bimmuvfab

Took the manifold out yesterday. My intention was to JB Weld the crack, but after looking at it, I decided I am going to replace the manifold. I don't want to put it back and find that there was something else I missed on it.

This is a lesson in patience. You can choose to believe me or not, but this is really true. After I started this thread, I started mentally going over what could have gone wrong during the head gasket change. I had planned in advance, had what I needed and knew how I was going to do it. But then it hit me. I had forgotten about it until I posted here, but I remembered that I accidentally bumped something big and black off my bench. It had been 2 weeks since this happened and for whatever reason, I think I registered it in my memory as the resonator, not the IM. Let me repeat this immensely moronic action that I am responsible for - I KNOCKED THE MANIFOLD off my workbench, looked it over and decided it was OK and proceeded to forget about it.

So, for me at least, the lesson is that no matter how well you plan you still have to be patient and mindful, and keep the important stuff somewhere other than your workbench.

Hopefully, the TB is ok. It was throwing a P0122 (TPS), but I'm not sure if that was because the throttle was surging so much.

ezone

Ouch, that sucks.

If you go JY for it, just grab one with the throttle body still on it.

I would expect P0122 to be a real code, not caused by the vacuum leak. TPS voltage low, that's a real code.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

That really sucks. It's good that you found it though get that thing fixed!

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

oh-ooooouchie...
thats a big crack in there...
don't worry, the male brain is quite good at forgetting stuff we don't wanna think about...
I bought a garage door opener 2 weeks ago. I am pretty sure it's in an open space, maybe over the dinner table, but the more i try to find it, the less i seen to see it, even if it is right in front of my eyes...
I know for a fact others do the same...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmm... Totally understandable losing a garage door opener. Those things are tiny after all.

ezone

.......Frantically looking for the wrench I'm holding in my hand.....

kinakoes2

Or the glasses on top of my head.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Lol!

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

BTW, just found it today - was on the floor, next to a bag, package was not as visible as expected and upside down - i was looking for a blue package... still... the truth remains (Saw a friend and my brother being beaten by their wives - "it's right there, in front of your eyes!!!" - "Where?!?")