Rep Power: 0

Car: 2001 Civic EX (Auto)- 240,000mi

Intro: I have had this car for the past 7 years & 100,00mi. Just last summer ~2000 mi ago, I personally replaced battery, head gasket, water pump, cam and crank shaft position sensors, front control arms, brakes, and rotors and new tires. This work was done to hand over a safe and reliable first car to my daughter.
Except for a small event a couple of weeks ago where she rear ended a truck that bent her radiator (hit the tow hitch on the truck) everything has been as expected - reliable and uneventful until this past week when she had to leave the car at school because it would not start.

Problem Description: The engine will "Turn Over" but will not run.

Discoveries So far:
1. Battery removed and tested good at local Auto Zone.
2. Car will not crank even while being boosted by my Land Cruiser.
3. The starter shows no weakness when trying to start - i.e. the engine turns over a a pretty good clip.
4. While cranking the engine, there the fuel pump relay is flapping/clicking.
5. There is a large draw from the battery when trying to crank. Voltage drops to ~9.5v when trying to start with just battery power and goes to ~10.5v when trying to boost.
6. Just after trying to start, but while the ignition is still in "ON" position the gauges, particularly the speedometer, act crazy, and there is a very slight muted buzzing coming from the steering column.

Posible Proplems?
- Grounding? This seems the most obvious, but I checked and verified the ground from battery and from front of engine to frame. Any Other places for me to check?
- ELD (Electronic Load Detector) - I read on the forum that this is a common issue, but I did not see where people replacing this had the exact symptoms I am having.
- Starter - A friend once had a truck that would turn over great, but the start had a bad bearing and would draw too much power to let the engine run. I would think that except for the gauge and buzzing issues occurring after the engine stops turning over.

Any Ideas are very much appreciated.

Mack

 
Rep Power: 517

See any inconsistencies here? Um, yeah, ok....Anyway..

Was the car doing anything unusual in the days prior to/leading up to this no-start event? Like were the gauges and warning lights doing funny things?

......Or is your daughter one of those appliance users that are totally oblivious to any and all problems as long as the car can still move under its own power? (Like my GF and most of her family.)

What about the timing belt? Was it new?
Tensioner and spring? Was it new? There are many cases of discount tensioners failing in the first couple thousand miles......and if it is still original, 240k is a great time for it to fail.

Is the cam turning?
Is it still in time, or out of time?


Um....Have you checked the computer for codes?

Does the computer still communicate with a scanner/code reader?



If nothing else..... Some of the cars "tick the gauges" when there is a blown fuse. Check #3 and #9 in the engine compartment box.

Are any of the alternator mounting bolts not fully tightened? Loose bolts means an ungrounded alternator, and this can smoke (ruin) the PCM.

This would set a code, and cannot cause a no start.

Normal starter draws around 120 amps or so, so yeah there will be a drop in voltage when it's cranking. AMPS is what you need to know, if you need to know. And cranking speed. Is the cranking speed normal?


When you say you boosted it, you meant jumper cables with a running vehicle, correct?


Done a compression test?

Are the plugs wet, or dry?



HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

First of all ezone - I still appreciate your response, BUT I am not the duma** that you try to make me out to be.

Your 1st response:
If you don't understand what is being stated here maybe your are not as smart as you claim.

Your 2nd Response:
If there had been anything unusual happening I would have said so.

Your 3rd Response:
Of course the timing belt, tensioner and spring are new - who would replace all that and not replace the obvious wear items with new. AND I used ALL GENUINE HONDA PARTS. Based on the response from the steering column buzzing, gauges acting nuts, and the clicking/flapping of the fuel pump relay, it is pretty obvious that this is probably electrical and not related to valve timing.

Your 4th Response:
Um.... If I had checked the computer codes I would have listed them. The fact that I have not check the codes means I do not know if the reader can communicate with the PCM.

Tanks for the the first real useful bit of information -- I'll check fuses #3 & #9 this weekend.

Your 4th Response:
Thanks for this information -- I'll check for lose bolts this this weekend. And see If I have lost communication (i.e. fried) the PCM.

Your 5th Response:
This is also useful information, but seeing that so many people have had issues with the ELD I'll just spend the $25 bucks and replace it as a maintenance item.

Your 6th Response:
AMPS might tell me if the starter is drawing too much from the battery, BUT a minimum VOLTS are required to power the system before an engine can run. If a 94 Chevy does not get 10.5 volts to the system it will not start. It looks to me like the 9.5 is definitely too low for the system to function and the 10.5 might be too low.

Does any one know the minimum system voltage requirement for a Honda Civic?

Thanks again for your help,

Mack

 
Rep Power: 208

no need for the attitude when somebody is helping you FREE OF CHARGE

your not working on a 94 Chevy.....i would offer you some advise but you seem too smart for me and everybody else here

 
Rep Power: 517

Those were your words, as typed.
I tend to take typed descriptions very literally, the statements were inconsistent.


I didn't see anyone else offering you assistance. Would you rather I totally ignore your post?
You know this for certain? You were the one driving the car prior to this no start event?
You didn't state this information, and I'm trying to gather information about any possible symptoms. Clues, if you will.

Sure seems you wrote as though your daughter was the one driving it at that time. Maybe I didn't understand what you typed.

Again, you did not state any of this in your first post.

I am not Miss Cleo, and this is not the Psychic Friends Network.

I ask questions and make statements for a reason. I usually type things out as I think of them.
Do you know what the PCM does when the timing belt jumps a couple teeth?

Yup, but that isn't the only possibility. Excessively high voltage can do funny things.

What were you boosting this car with again? Some battery chargers can put out close to 20 volts in boost mode.
This would be handy info. A smoked PCM usually can't communicate with any code reader or scanner.

I bet they are ok. Just a hunch.

It's the common cause of a fried PCM. Usually shortly after any work involving touching the alternator.
It's common enough that Honda issued service information pertaining specifically to this issue.
This is not a 94 Chevy truck. It would need a fuel pump every 75k if it were.

Sorry, no definite answer here.
They can be hit-or-miss as far as voltage. Most of the cars will start even if the battery is very low while cranking (around 8.5-9.0 as long as the starter stays engaged), although there can be issues with the immobilizer at that low voltage (check for rapidly flashing green key symbol on the dash while cranking), and some may set low voltage codes in other modules such as the ABS, or voltage related ("scrambled brain") codes in the SRS.


But you already boosted it with no success in starting it.
YW. Lunch break is over.