JJ291

I'm considering replacing my main bearings in-car. Any lessons learned, advice, critique is greatly appreciated (thanks in advance ezone). Here is my plan:

Remove the oil pan
Remove the bearing cap
Get the bearing cap halves out and get colors of existing bearings - order with overnight shipping

To remove the other half, I plan to do this one at a time:
-Gently pull down on the crankshaft to try not to stress the seals
-Apply a small screwdriver to the bearing half opposite the two tab side
-Connect the Honda tool to the crank pulley and use left hand to rotate the crank opposite the two tab side while pushing with the screwdriver
-If it won't move I will gently tap on the other side with a screwdriver to try and move the bearing partially out past the tab
-Roll the crank and try again
-If it comes out a little I will grab with my fingers and try and move the crank up and down while sliding it around the crank
-Get linesmen pliers (with a cloth on teeth) and try and "pull" it out around the radius of crank

To install I plan to:
-Try and put in by hand by inserting with the one-tab end first
-Try and push it through by gently moving the crank up and down so as to not stress the seals
-If necessary, roll the crank and gently push the bearing to try and get it to turn

If none of this works to put them back in I will be having a very long weekend. Question - can I rotate the crank the opposite direction - I think the manual said NOT to do this but I can't remember why.

ezone

You don't have individual main bearing caps IIRC. You have a girdle.

You won't have hardly any drop when you pull the girdle down. The trans and the oil pump hold the crank up. The bearing shells should still slide right out after the tab is picked free from the slot.


The little cutout in the block for the tab on the bearing half: use a pick in there to wiggle/pry it loose. The bearing should come free and slide around the crank journal without having to rotate the crank at all.
Same for reinstallation: the bearing should slide around the crank, you shouldn't have to rotate the crank.

Except for the thrust bearing. That one might be tough.

Be super careful with the screwdriver.....In fact, don't use it at all. You don't want to gouge the block or crank or bearing. (This is why I said use fingernails, I prefer using tools that are softer than the metals in the bearings.) There are some pretty darn stout plastic tools that work well for this too, but might be a bit large. Look in to what is available.


IMO The only reason (that I can think of right now) to not turn the crank backwards (on a 7th gen Civic, and many other engine designs) is you can unwind the tensioner and have the timing belt jump.
If the engine has a timing tensioner pulley that is physically locked by a bolt (6th gen and earlier), I'd turn be ok with turning the crank backwards.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Take lots of pictures and make a DIY

JJ291

Alright, they are out. I really had to wrestle that one by the oil pump and had to make a special tool (I will likely be chastised when I post the pic). I'm getting warned on another forum to make sure I dry the bearings between the block/girdle and the bearing. It's hard to tell in the service manual what to do because all it says is "lubricate the bearings" then it says to install them. It just seems like if they wanted only the surface between the bearing and the crank lubricated they would have had you install the bearing and then said "lubricate the bearing". The person posting this seems knowledgeable and sincere but it's such a big messup that I'd appreciate a few other opinions.

This also means I need to remove my rod bearings while I'm in there and dry the back because I lubricated those last weekend. They seem OK though. More to come tomorrow. (and yes, I took lots of pics! )

I had to over night the new bearings so hopefully they will show tomorrow morning and I'll wrap up this saga. I have to admit - should have done this a) when I had my engine/tranny out!!!!!! and b) last week when I had the oil pump off!!!! I had all kinds of play with the oil pump removed!

Thanks for the help - more to come!

JJ291

BTW, they were all YELLOW and I have to confess it was a bit hard to see the color but they definitely weren't red, green, black, etc. They didn't look pink....

Is that wierd to have all one color?

ezone

If you are actually gonna bother to measure oil clearances, this step can actually make a difference.

OTOH, if you are doing this with the engine in the car, it's gonna be damn tough to get it accomplished dry.
I don't recall worrying about it when I did it.

If I have an engine out and upside down, then I'd do it, but I wouldn't spend much time with it if it is still in the car.


If you check out how the bearing shells fit, they are very slightly larger than the half-round cutouts that they are supposed to fit in, even after you get them inserted with your fingers and seated. The shells get "squashed" a bit more when the cap is tightened against the block, and this forces the backside of the shells tightly against the cap and block.

IMO, this action will squeeze out the majority of the oil film between the shell and the block or cap.


I wouldn't do that. You have already ran it and driven the car for a week with no issues, right? I recall you said it sounded better now than it ever has?

IMO the mains done the same way would be just fine too.

The friction surfaces (contact areas between moving parts) are what needed lubed. You never want to start an engine on dry bearings.

JJ291

Well, I'm in a tight spot - Dealer didn't get the bearings in despite the overnight order and this is my DD. As much as I even hate to ask (for anything let alone bearings), got any recommendations on an aftermarket bearing that I might have a shot at getting today?

ezone

Beggars can't be choosers.
Yellow pages.
Automotive machine shops? Parts stores?
Good freekin luck.

I wouldn't expect anyone near me to keep something like that on hand.



BTW Your dealer will absolutely hate you for not getting the bearings you ordered. You might be blacklisted after this. Overnight shipping costs the dealers quite a bit extra, even though it was a fail and the regular order would probably have got them to the dealer quicker. (BTDT many times LOL, I know how this can work.....It's really not the dealers' fault at all.)

EDIT: The above is the reason my dealer has people prepay for special orders.

JJ291

OK, for better or worse I was able to complete the job last Tuesday night after getting the main bearings from the dealer. After ezone's chastisement, what choice did I have but to wait, lol. I think overall, this job can be done in car, but I agree 100% that it is much better to pull the engine (I will probably pull mine in 6 months as I will have more time)

Anyway, I took a lot of pictures thinking I'd have this great DIY, but in the end they just seemed to be crap so not sure about that one just yet. Here are my learnings and pics:

1) This job should definitely be done with any oil pump work because I had way more clearance when mine was out.
2) ezone was dead on that a pick was the way to go - I was easily able to fish the bearings out with the exception of one
3) I fabricated a special tool using my favorite dremmel fitting and an old tiny screw driver. While it wasn't the best for not impacting the tab area of the block, it seemed to do the trick
4) I cleaned behind the crank by getting a large screw clamp and sliding it around the crank with a piece of shammy cloth - I feel like I got quite a bit of oil
5) I followed up with some shots of brake cleaner and then shammy - I actually think it was pretty clean
6) I was able to plastigage by using the PG on each point of the bearing girdle (see pic) - while it didn't come in quite as tight as I would have liked it, it was definitely within the service limits
7) I found a sweet video that helped me get the bearings back in - actually learned a lot as well (about tang!). Used a 90 degree screw driver instead of a cotter pin

[autostream]http://autostream.com/ibcivicforums/?page_type=firebirdplayerthumbnail&framepage=1438& transactionid=1379284958-9819999112&posted_by=_www.civicforums.com&youtube_ video_id=jHeO1h3U4GE[/autostream]

8) After plastigage I lubricated the crankshaft and kept turning it and adding lube - I feel like this adequately lubricated the area between bearings and crank
9) I pulled my rod bearings and got the lubricant off the back - couldn't tell but it look like one of them may have taken a loop around but not sure - the tang was all good! In any case, I cleaned the back, dried them out, etc.
10) I made sure each bearing had good crush (watch video)
11) I started the car with coils pulled and let it turn over about 10-15 times to push oil into the shaft reservoir without having the engine start
12) Per the service manual, I let it run at idle for to operating temperature and then 15 minutes beyond that.
13) A little midnight highway action, praying like heck it didn't crater on me.

So far, so good but time will tell I guess:

7801 - Stuff that's gotta come off
7802 - Torque Converter cover plate removed
7804 - Oil pan off
7806 - Oil pick up about to come off
7807 - Oil pick up off, shot of main bearing girdle
7808 - All of it sitting together - made clean work area and cleaned, lubed, covered with plastic wrap
7809 - Main bearing half - had to look at the color of the bearing on the side since I didn't have the code off the block, don't use brake cleaner. Gently rub with your finger and it will get the grime off.
7815 - clearance after removed and a shot of the tang slot
7818 - thrust bearings trying to creep around and fall out
7819 - how I turned the crank from under the car
7824 - The best frigging dremmel tool ever, could drill out superman's knee cap
7825 - "Special tool" used to pry out the main bearing via the tang tab
7851 - "Special tool" used to clean out behind the bearing (go slow and don't get metal on metal"
7851 - Hard to see but a stuck a 90 degree screw driver into the oil port, and turned the crank on the bearing (similar to video with cotter pin) to get the bearing around the crank - go slow
7854 - Plastigage on the main bearing girdle

ezone

The tangs would have been flattened or sheared off if the bearing had spun in its hole. There would have been obvious damage and scarring.
This makes me ask, were the friction surfaces of the bearings or crank lubed before final assembly?
I always do the above to prime the oil system prior to letting the engine start on its own though.

That was a good video, explained in far more detail than I can type.
I'm kinda surprised the instructor wasn't wearing gloves....and I really noticed the blood.


Glad you are burning fuel again!

JJ291

Oh yah - lots of lube! Good to hear I didn't spin a rod bearing also!

Thanks for all your help!

hojebearings

汽车轴承供应商
http://www.hojebearings.com/