trez777

Hi All,

I just joined the forum and was hoping for some expert advice... so here's my case...

I have a 2003 Honda Civic LX automatic transmission. Currently it has 121k miles on it. Last weekend, when I was pulling out of garage, I noticed that the engine was producing a louder noise than usual. The noise kept getting louder and louder and so I parked it back in the garage. Opened the hood and started the engine again to figure out whats going on and noise was still there coming from the engine... At some point I smelled something burning (like a burnt clutch) so I turned off the engine...

Next day, I called in a mechanic referred by friends. He stopped by my place to check the problem. He asked me to start the engine but it won't even start now. Tried several times but engine won't start. A few minutes later on, the mechanic just called me and said he saw the problem. My timing belt appeared to have snapped or got misplaced to where it should be. Just by looking at it, he said it needs replacing and further analysis would need to be done if had damaged the engine and up to what extent. He added that if I'm lucky, it might just need to be replaced and tensioner adjusted but worst case, it might have damaged the engine already and he might need to do more work like fixing the valves, gaskets, or something.

I have attached some pictures that we took on how the belt looks like from what we can see outside....

Here's the other thing -- I had the timing belt, water pump and accessory belts actually serviced and replaced when the car was at 100k miles which was exactly 2 years ago. I did it as a preventive maintenance on this local shop near my place (if anyone asks, I will tell the shop name by request so you can avoid this place!). That cost me about $700 to get it done. A year after that maintenance, a problem occurred where the shop had to replace the timing belt tensioner spring as it broke and the engine was making this bad/loud sound. Then after about 6 weeks, the problem recurred and it was the tensioner spring again being broken. At that point, I was really frustrated already with the shop because they were giving me lots of reasons that didn't make sense. Finally, they agreed to get it repaired as part of their warranty but they said if the same problem occurs again, they cannot honor it again as it could be other parts causing the issue.

Fast forward today, I have the problem I mentioned above. Its been 2 years since I had that shop do the timing belt replacement on my car and I bet if I call them up, they'd give me all kinds of reasons and would ask me to tow my car to their garage and would be left with no choice of having them fixed it again for a hefty fee. So my option is to have this freelance mechanic repair my car and hope for the best that its not that damaged.

If you are in my case, what would you guys recommend? Also, how much am I expecting to shell out to have this fixed? The mechanic said he can do the timing belt replacement/repair for $400 total and if the engine has been damaged, it could cost me up to $800-900. Are those fair and reasonable amounts? Any thoughts? I am really at a lost right now and do not know what to do next. I can also sell the car as is and probably get around $3.8k or so (KBB value for a Fair condition).

Thanks.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

If, in fact, your timing belt has slipped off, I can almost guarantee you bent some valves, if not all of them. Tell me, when you try to start your car, does it just sound like a sort of groaning sound?

Also, those prices you listed are very reasonable. Dealership quoted me at $650 for a timing belt job (which I did myself for ~$250), and when my timing belt decided to commit suicide, getting that fixed cost me $1450.. Still kinda pissed I didn't do that job myself, but I reluctantly handed the keys over to my dad's mechanic out of frustration.

Matt_75

My first recommendation would to get every thing aftermarket that was associated with the timing belt job and replace them with OEM parts. So timing belt, tensioner pulley, spring and water pump. I see even your drive belts aren't OEM either. I would replace them with OEM parts, but they're not as critical.

Second, make sure your currrent mechanic that was recommmended does the job right and has a good warranty with his work.

Hopefully your car just shut off because your crank or cam sensor sensed it was out of time then ECU shut your car off before anything was destroyed.

FYI, the pictures you have are of the accessory belts not the timing belt. The timing belt is behind the black plastic covers.

Good luck.

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

I almost posted the same thing, but noticed that in the second pic, you can see the timing belt through the gaping hole in the lower timing belt cover

edit: make that both pics.

Matt_75

Yeah I see it now. Broke lower timing belt cover and chewed up timing belt, check.

edit: I can't tell what's going on there with the timing belt. It almost looks like it's sticking out of the lower cover.

trez777

Yeah kinda groaning when I started the car the last time it ran. Really loud noise with lots of rattling noise coming from the engine too. Groaning/rattling I'd say. Now the car would not even start.

Matt_75

Somethings loose and/or broke in the timing belt area. That area should be addressed ASAP. As I said above new OEM parts and correctly timed.

trez777

Thanks. I'll see how much those OEM parts would cost if they need replacing. Obviously the belt has to be replaced. Not sure about the water pump and the rest.

The current mechanic warranties his work. He has done a lot of good work and recommended by friends.

My problem is that the car won't even start now. Does this generation of civic has an ECU and is it possible that the ECU is preventing the car to start?

trez777

Yes, that's right.... the cover also got a hole and the belt is sticking out. I don't know what happened and how the cover got to that state.

Matt_75

Yeah it looks like the timing belt cut through the lower timing belt cover because something let go behind it. Get to a trusted mechanic and figure out what's going on behind there. It looks like you need a minimum of a new timing belt and lower timing belt cover at this point. I'm sure more damage will be revealed underneath the cover.

Matt_75

The crank and/or cam sensor senses that the engine is out of timing and won't let the car start. Hopefully it did it's job before any real damage occurred.

johndeerebones

My recommendation is don't crank it anymore turn it by hand if you have to to figure it out, but don't touch the starter, it bends valves....

Where it is tracking would tell me that the tensioner let go again. Do not put aftermarket parts in the cover, this is what happens. The springs either break or eat through the tensioner.

trez777

okay... the mechanic dropped by today and tried to put in a new timing belt and tensioner. It appears that the tensioner was the culprit. It just broke with the bearings are gone. the mechanic timed it and engine still won't start. he had to tow it to his shop and determine how much damage was done to the engine. it could be bent valves - how many - i don't know. he gave me an estimate of around $900 depending on what he sees. is this a fair price?

Also recommended to replace the lower control arm bushings (left & right front) for about $250 otd, parts and labor included. Again, is this a fair price?

any other recommendations? thanks a lot...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

900 is reasonable. It will probably end up being more than that though. He will be replacing all the valves. As johndeerbones said. When you install aftermarket parts, you get aftermarket problems. Especially when dealing with the timing belt. Matt75, if this were true the car wouldnt even CRANK. Cranking alone will damage valves.