Ron Doyle

Guy's,

I've got a 2001 Civic that has a quart or so of power steering fluid in the floorboard. Luckily, I had the old carpeting out of the car preparing to replace it. I kept putting in power steering fluid, but it would disappear with no apparent leaks. Then it all came out on the floor. Based on posts and other research, it is caused by the steering rack leaking into the car by the steering column.

So now my question, the Honda manual says to remove the steering wheel when replacing the steering box. Is this really necessary? What would be damaged if it was not removed? I just don't get the reason why you have to remove the S/W.

Anyone know who makes the best replacement steering box? I've seen a slew of remanufacturers out there...

Thanks in advance,

Ron

This car will be the death of me or I'll go to jail the next time I see the boyfriend!

ezone

Ok, the reason they want the steering wheel removed is so there is absolutely no possibility of damaging the clockspring (cable reel) for the airbag, in the case of accidentally turning the steering shaft while working on the rack. It is very easy to have it happen.
All it takes is an extra turn to rip the guts of the clockspring out and render it useless.





More than you wanted to read here:

Now, if you can think ahead and reason this out long before doing the job like I can, you might figure a way to avoid having the possible disasters happen and decide to go against the book and do it whatever way you choose. But don't whine if it gets torn up and you have to spend extra money to make it right. It's a risk you take.

Hope you don't have little kids roaming around, they like to turn the steering wheel.

If there was a problem that happened because I didn't follow what the book said, I know I'd have to fix it.

That said, I do it my way with no problems every time, and I have racks out rather often (trans jobs or anything that requires the subframe to come out).
I take necessary precautions as I go.
I center the rack and the wheel straight ahead, turn it to take the pinch bolt out, straighten it, mark the coupler and pinion shaft with paint or a sharpie, then lift the coupler off the rack stub (pinion shaft). I use bungee cords to hold the wheel from spinning too.

I make sure the new rack is as close to centered as I can get it with the wheels in the air, then reassemble the column and check for level and centering.
Readjust as necessary (usually I'm within one spline of center.)
The steering wheel must be centered on the rack: Turn the wheel all the way to lock and note position, turn to the other lock and note position. Make sure that it is even in both directions. Now it can be aligned.

If I'm reusing the old rack, all I worry about is making the wheel straight (or wherever it was before I started) while driving down the road. Align as needed.


HTH

ezone

Come to think of it, I haven't seen one blow the pinion shaft seal. I wonder if someone has been dumping the wrong fluid in since it uses it so fast. Hondas PS fluid looks the color of motor oil.

I've done this before......
Factory reman rack, without tie rods 06536-S5D-507RM $276 at Majestic.
Will need a pair of lock plates 53536-S5A-900 $0.77 ea.
And a pair of boot clamps 53449-S5A-003 $1.91 ea.
O ring for the high pressure line at the top of the pump 91370-SV4-000 $0.55

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry 2=2001&catcgry3=4DR+LX&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=P.S .+GEAR+BOX

Plus fluid, about a quart (unless you need to flush it).
Pretty sure I can do the job without anything more than that.



If you are willing to try something far cheaper, you could maybe replace the shaft seal by itself.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry 2=2001&catcgry3=4DR+LX&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=P.S .+GEAR+BOX+COMPONENTS

Look in box #25, I think the seal you need is #27 but it is tough to tell for sure. Also, if something internal caused the seal to let go, just replacing the seal wouldn't address it.
No, I haven't ever tried it myself.

HTH

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, I though the nut behind the steering wheel needs to come off so you can pull the whole assembly?

ezone

Insert "Loose nut behind the wheel" jokes here!



The intermediate shaft telescopes.

No need to remove the entire column, that one coupler will lift right off of the rack.

Matt_75

Same thing happened to me. I ordered a reaman from hondaautomovitveparts.com.

No need to remove the steering wheel. Put your seat belt through the lower part of the steering wheel before you disconnect the intermediate shaft. It'll keep it from moving. I marked the intermediate shaft with a sharpie before I removed it on the top and bottom of the shaft.

I also disconnected what I think is the front stabilizer bar on the strut housings and pulled it out. I think it would be considered a ton of space by "real mechanics" for removing the power steering rack. It doesn't tell you to take that bar off in the service manual.

Ron Doyle

Thanks guy's. Yes, someone put non-Honda P/S fluid in the car. A person before me (stupid *** boyfriend), and then me to just top off the empty resevoir a few times. Perhaps I didn't help, but the old carpet had plenty of old P/S fluid stains on it by the drivers foot. I sure am glad that the car doesn't require Honda specific motor oil.

So, the consensus is, you don't have to remove the sterring wheel if you secure it so it will not turn/move any? I'm assuming the clockspring/cable reel is expensive and is a pain to replace. So given that everything that I touch on this car is crap, I believe I'll pull the S/W to be safe LOL

Ron

Parts so far:

CV and Axles both sides
Tires and wheels
Carpeting
Replaced Instrument cluster
door locks and actuators
headlight assembly and bulbs
battery
oil and filter
Complete Airbox assembly (old one was missing)
Air Filters engine and cabin
spark plugs
front control arms
ball joints
tie rod ends
sway bar links
P/S Rack and High Pressure Hose
Front rotors and pads
Rear drums and shoes
Front Struts w springs
Rear Struts w springs
Power Mirrors
Front Bumper new with paint
Honda emblem on trunk
Wipers
Radio (original was missing?)
Front door speakers (missing again)
Removed HID headlights and a thousand feet of stereo wire
Will most likely replace all bushings in rear suspension

Yes, about $2500.00 sunk into a $2-3K car. But ya have to keep the Wife happy and do as I'm toad. Yes, all of my labor which is 10 cents per hour.

Matt_75

Just make sure the steering wheel is straight and put your seat belt through the lower part of the steering wheel and latch it in. I just did this on my car 8 months ago and using the seat belt worked like a champ. The intermediate shaft just disconnects with two bolts as ezone has already shown. The shaft part on the steering wheel side will just drop down. As long as the seat belt is through the lower part of the steering wheel you shouldn't have any problems with it turning.

And in fact the Honda service manual remove and replace procedure doesn't even tell you to removing the steering wheel to replace the steering rack.

Matt_75

I don't think the 7th gen does unless I'm missing something. If I am please point it out to me. I think it's just a straight swivel joint with one side going to the rack shaft and the other to the steering wheel shaft. No intermediate telescoping in between. If I'm mistaken please let me know. When I replaced mine, I don't remember the steering wheel side of the shaft telescoping at all, but again, I may be mistaken.

Drawing below:

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...TEERING+COLUMN

ezone

Sorry man, I see so many different cars it's tough to remember what each one has unless I can see it in front of me. I stand corrected. Again.

The steering column shaft telescopes (in a crash).
The 2 bolts in the U joint need to be removed so the joint can slip upwards off of the pinion shaft of the rack. Column stays where it is, does not need to be removed.

Matt_75

No need to apologize. I was just making sure I didn't miss something. You know an infinite amount more about all makes a models of cars than I'll ever know.

The only reason I know anything about this gen of car is because I learned to work on it after it went out of warranty three years ago. The most major work I've done is the steering rack and the internal oil pump o-ring leaking. I did the driver side CV half shaft, but that's kind of easy.

The most major routine maintenance I've done is the timing belt, water pump and all the associated seals that come with that maintenance.

I'm just glad there's an experienced mechanic on this forum who's willing to help us poor saps out that try to DIY.