Rep Power: 0

I have a 2005 civic LX with 91800 miles. I have owned the car since it was new with no major problems.
My daughter drives the car and the check engine light came on over a year ago and we had it checked finding it was bank 1 heat circuit O2 sensor, (or something close). The car ran fine so she drove it this way.

She purchased a new CRV and decided to sell this one so we wanted to get the O2 sensor fixed. I took it to a mechanic I have had luck with previously where he replaced the O2 sensor and spam plugs.

When I picked the car up it has a miss or should I say a slight surge when accelerated. At first the check engine light did not come back on. I took the car back and questioned the O2 sensor and the spark plugs. He changed the O2 again and replaced the spark plugs using NGK. The car still has the issue and the check engine light comes on saying heat circuit O2 sensor. He had another civc on the lot so he tried the coils and the O2 from that car only to get the same issue. I know, he's guessing.

He had another mechanic put it on some computer and then he checked everything again. This mechanic is saying there not enough voltage to the O2 sensor???

I took it to another garage and they said it needs to go back to honda for a computer upgrade??

I don't know if Im believing either. I think there could be 2 issues, maybe one around the spark plugs and the other the O2 circuit. The car ran fine before the plugs were replaced it just had the light on.

I am mechanical and have always done basic work on my cars. I have the car sold and ned to get it fixed fast. I have a appointment at Honda which I know will be expensive! If anyone has experienced this or has ideas of what to check I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 313

Take it to Honda. The spark plugs are not to blame. The problem is probably a dirty throttle body coupled with an aftermarket o2 sensor. There are two sensors one upstream and one downstream. If he replaces the wrong one it will never fix it. Also you have to make sure he is using a dual band o2 sensor as that is what is needed for your car.

 
Rep Power: 367

corrected above

if the mechanic used a o2 sensor for up to 2003 (2003?) they use a narrow band sensor, while the 04+ (03+?) uses a wide band. bad news is that the wideband is waaay more expensive.

check the receipt to see if the sensor was 250 bucks or similar (wide) or below 100 bucks (narrow). if in between 100-200, he is overcharging the part!!! - usually, the wide is 250+

 
Rep Power: 518

P0135 or P0141 code? Both are heater circuit codes, one is for the front sensor, the other is for the rear sensor.
Usually just need a new sensor(s) for the code(s), rarely is it ever something else.


===========================


Had a 05 Civic in today with BOTH of the codes, and this car was brought in by another shop.

Both O2 sensors are bad. (Well, one is an A/F sensor, the other is an O2 sensor.)
Front sensor is just plain bad. Open heater circuit.

Rear sensor is brand new. Care to guess why this one is bad?





We keep telling these guys to quit trying to save money, but they just don't get it.

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the replies! It was the front sensor he replaced. Is the sensor over $200?

 
Rep Power: 0

Is there a way to look and see if its a wide sensor?

 
Rep Power: 518

Yep. Honda Dealer list price (USA) is $240.

Nope, not at a glance.
Looks damn near exactly the same as a regular O2 sensor with 4 wires.
Does nearly the same job, looks about the same, but is completely different inside and the computer is also different.


Easiest way to be assured it is correct is that the check engine light didn't come back on in the first 5 seconds. Or the next day.


HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

Ezone, thats the odd part, I drove the car 10 miles and the light did not come on. It did have the surge as you pickup speed. Would the wrong sensor cause the surge issue?

 
Rep Power: 518

Could be possible, or
Could be completely unrelated.
IDK.
Hard to tell at this point.....
I'd want to see what's going on in a scanner datalist first
WAIT, I need to drive the car first, so I can feel what's going on.



You may be asking the wrong things here....or using wrong terms.
In my world, these describe two very different issues, and they feel completely different.

Do you have a miss, or do you have a surge?

Where's your mechanic at? Did he drive the car?







Here's a test: You could disable fuel trim correction, since that's a huge part of what the sensors are for

Disconnect the battery. (resets adaptives to zero, hopefully)
Disconnect both O2 sensors (eliminates fuel trim adjustments)
and drive it for a little while.
If the 'surge' is still present, then the preliminary assumption would be that the sensors have nothing to do with it.


Does the car consume oil? Pull the sparkplugs and see if there is ashy buildup on any of them. Evaluate the ignition components.

 
Rep Power: 0

Ezone, your correct, bad on my part! it is a surge not a miss. The car does not burn oil and the plugs are new NGK plugs.

Tomorrow I will try what you suggested.

Thanks so much!

 
Rep Power: 518

You know that when you disconnect stuff the idiot light comes on, right? Ignore it for now.



Once you determine if the sensors have anything to do with the surge, reconnect them. (I'm assuming they won't.)

Now disconnect the EGR valve wiring, and drive it. See if the surge is still present or gone.





Can you describe the surge more?

 
Rep Power: 313

Thanks Sandro. I always call it dual band for some reason lol

 
Rep Power: 0

Ezone, I tried your suggestion and the surge was gone with the O2's disconnected. I checked the new O2 sensor not only was it only hand tight but it was the wrong one. I replaced it with an OEM replacement and the problem is gone!! Thank you!

Thanks to everyone who posted with suggestions or comments.

 
Rep Power: 313

Whoo Hoo! I think I was right. Thank you for posting what the problem was it is greatly appreciated and will surely help members in the future.

 
Rep Power: 367

glad it's working now.
sorry that it is a expensive part :P