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2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

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Old May 30, 2022
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2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

2004 LX 5 Speed Manual with almost 200k miles. I bought it as a beater to work on at 194k, so it was not in the best condition at the start.

I've found threads with the opposite issue that I have. For them, they can't move when shifting into gears but could push their car in neutral. In those threads the issue seemed to be a bad clutch.

I can't move my car in neutral but I can shift into gears and with light gas get the car to move in gear. When I jack the frontend up, I cannot spin the front wheels in neutral. I am thinking the transmission is somehow locked up or damaged.

I was teaching someone to drive manual when this issue started in front of my garage as a practice incline. I believe they were riding the clutch and when they finally had it fully depressed, the car did not roll backward. They shifted the car into neutral and did not roll backward. Perplexed, we continued up the incline with higher than normal revs needed and into my garage. By that time, we could see that the clutch was smoking and smelled burnt.

I have replaced the clutch with a kit, but I have the same issues. When I had pried the driveshafts away during transmission replacement, they seemed to spin freely so my hope was that there may have been some type of transmission engagement issue that replacing the clutch would fix. In looking back, when I pried the driveshafts away, that may have released them from where the issue is happening. The clutch disc was in one piece but at the minimum 5.7mm thickness service level. I felt that it shouldn't be effecting me moving in neutral, but I hoped it may have and continued through the clutch kit replacement.

After reinstalling the driveshafts, popping them into place, and putting them into the hub, I could feel the wheel hub be difficult to turn when tightening the axle nuts. After getting everything put back together and hoping for the best, I still have the issue where the car seems locked up in neutral and the front wheels will not spin freely. Anyone have this issue before?

It was a project car I have learned a lot from, but I'm thinking a transmission rebuild or replacement is where this is headed and may not be something I continue with. Thanks!
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Old May 31, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

After thinking through that things seemed ok until attached to the hub, I think I tracked it down to a seized brake caliper. With the age and condition of the car, I had assumed it had to deal with the clutch or transmission finally giving out.
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Old May 31, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

If it all spins nice with the calipers out of the way then that's probably the issue
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Old May 31, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

Yeah, I feel like a bit of an idiot, but that's all a part of learning . I didn't think it would have seized up like that while in use.

After removing the caliper, the wheel hub could spin freely. When pushing the brake pedal, the piston would come out ok, but I could not press it back in and even bent a 6" C clamp when trying to force it. It was a coincidence that it seized with everything that was going on... learning driver, worn out clutch and transmission, etc.

I'm getting a used replacement caliper tonight and plan to comment back to confirm all. Thanks!
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Old May 31, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

You should do both sides
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Old May 31, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

Originally Posted by Colin42
You should do both sides
Thank you. Both front calipers got replaced with used ones, bled, and I could move the car in neutral.

Everything is running and with how new that clutch is and the biting point lower, it's like learning to drive a completely different car.
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Old Jun 1, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

Originally Posted by logsdonj
Thank you. Both front calipers got replaced with used ones, bled, and I could move the car in neutral.

Everything is running and with how new that clutch is and the biting point lower, it's like learning to drive a completely different car.
This is still solved as originally posted, but I do have a follow-up.

I'm starting to think several things could have gone wrong all at once

Everything was great for a couple short rides of about 5 miles each. About 0.5 miles after starting a 3rd trip, similar symptoms were happening of the car struggling but less severe than against a stuck brake caliper piston. When driving in higher gears, I started to lose power and revolutions, could feel the engine struggling, and had to switch to lower gears to get off the road quickly and look into things. Once again, in neutral, I greatly struggled to move the car. In my mind I was thinking no way could the same thing with a brake caliper happen again.

I decided to open the hood and play around with the shift linkage on top of the transmission, manually shifting the components back and forth to the neutral position and making sure that I could lift up and down on the vertical linkage and what it attaches to with gear selection. I did this a few times as well as play around with the gear shifter and clutch. I was able to move the car in neutral and was relieved for a moment. My thought was that maybe there was a kink somewhere and for some reason, the car didn't fully engage in neutral. At least it's not a brake caliper this time, maybe it was a one-time thing, etc. were the things I was telling myself.

On my way back home from this, after about 0.5 miles again, I got the same issue where I was losing power in higher gears and needed to put it in lower gears to get enough power to get it off the road. In neutral, I can barely push the car with all my force. This time I'm in a church parking lot and have room to test things. I only mess with the shift linkage on top of the transmission several times back in forth in its neutral positions and gears until I'm able to push the car and roll it easily.

I drive the car around the large parking lot to do lots of shifting. About every minute, I stop the car in neutral and push on it to make sure it still moves freely. Probably the equivalent of 0.5 miles each time, I have the same issue where it seems like it's not quite in neutral all the way to move easily and sometimes it won't move in neutral at all. This time I tighten up the cotter pins on the linkage and mess with the gear selections manually until I can roll the car again.

After I tighten up the cotter pins, shifting gears in the car feels more responsive and solid when going into gears, but after another short parking lot drive, the same issue again. I'm thinking that if it were the shift linkage, it would be more consistent and reproduceable immediately. If I'm driving and shifting over the same gears without issues until a certain distance or period of time, it's probably not the shift linkage I've been focusing on, right?

Because I'm messing with the gear selection directly on the transmission and that seems to free things up but after several times moving through gear selections, I'm now leaning towards the transmission did get damage at the same time the brake piston seized and the clutch burnt up. Would you draw this conclusion too?

I filled up the transmission fluid until it came out of the fill hole. I don't believe that I have low transmission fluid, but could that even cause this type of issue? That's the only other thing I can think of before blaming a bad transmission.

After fixing so many things, I'm feeling discouraged that I can't figure it out exactly, so even hearing a confirmation on what it most likely could be is helpful. Thanks!
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Old Jun 2, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

good effort!
Yes, could be something internal in the transmission...
  • find used one and swap in? car-part.com for nearby scrapyards
  • rebuild current one?
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Old Jun 2, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

Originally Posted by sdaidoji
good effort!
Yes, could be something internal in the transmission...
  • find used one and swap in? car-part.com for nearby scrapyards
  • rebuild current one?
Thank you, I appreciate it! I am thinking more and more that those are my options.

As bad as I feel about the car or not being able to fix it so far, I should really be thankful I've been in safe situations with no one hurt and not far from home when any of these things have happened.

In researching more into bad shift linkage and transmission fluid, I'm not having problems getting in gears or grinding while driving. Even when the issue is happening, I've still been able to shift between gears up and down with no added shifter resistance, odd noises, or smells as a reality check before stopping. It never clearly pops out of a gear or slips and is more like something in the gearbox is binding/slipping/not synchronizing over time or when warmed up.

I'm thinking back when the brake caliper piston was seized and the clutch burnt while moving against it for a while before figuring that out, something in the transmission may have overheated or wore out enough to cause this issue. As I price out options, that could be where this story ends if I don't reply back. Thanks!
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Old Jun 3, 2022
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re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

Originally Posted by logsdonj
Thank you, I appreciate it! I am thinking more and more that those are my options.

As bad as I feel about the car or not being able to fix it so far, I should really be thankful I've been in safe situations with no one hurt and not far from home when any of these things have happened.

In researching more into bad shift linkage and transmission fluid, I'm not having problems getting in gears or grinding while driving. Even when the issue is happening, I've still been able to shift between gears up and down with no added shifter resistance, odd noises, or smells as a reality check before stopping. It never clearly pops out of a gear or slips and is more like something in the gearbox is binding/slipping/not synchronizing over time or when warmed up.

I'm thinking back when the brake caliper piston was seized and the clutch burnt while moving against it for a while before figuring that out, something in the transmission may have overheated or wore out enough to cause this issue. As I price out options, that could be where this story ends if I don't reply back. Thanks!
What a learning experience this has been! I couldn't leave the issue alone and kept at it. I think I have the issue (or at least the latest one!) tracked down to a failing brake hose and its inner lining specifically.

I drove the car in the parking lot again until the issue would happen and I could absolutely not move the car at all in neutral. A couple times when trying to move the car, I could hear the brake pads squeaking against the rotor. I quickly jacked up the car, took the front passenger wheel off... can't rotate the hub. I crack the bleeder screw, fluid comes out, and I'm able to move the hub.

I think in all the times that I've stopped the car and fiddled with the shift linkage for a bit, the brake fluid pressure had enough time to release and the car would move again, making me think I "fixed" things with the transmission. Very sneaky!

Last edited by logsdonj; Jun 3, 2022 at 12:46 PM.
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Old Jun 3, 2022
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Re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

easier brakes than transmission
good job on finding the issue!
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Old Jun 3, 2022
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Re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

Originally Posted by sdaidoji
easier brakes than transmission
good job on finding the issue!
Absolutely! Many lessons learned for next time. Thank you!
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Old Jun 3, 2022
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Re: 2004 LX 5 Speed Manual Won't Move in Neutral [solved]

I was going to suggest the hoses, but you seemed to have narrowed it down to the shifter linkage.
good find
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