Rep Power: 0

The car has put on 145k miles. The engine light started blinking and white smoke was coming out of the hood. Brought it to Midas and they said it's a #3 coil and everything was all set. I paid them $300 and thought it was fixed but a little bit down the road i noticed white smoke still coming out of the hood. Open the hood and there is steam coming out of the radiator backup. Took it to a different place and they diagnosed it and said that the cap spring fell off and the top of the radiator where the cap screws into the tank is chewed up. They said this means even a new cap will not seal the tank and car will keep overheating. What's weird about it is the car was not overheating before i had this issue with the 3 coil. So i don't get why suddenly this is a problem? He said he thinks it's because when all this happened to the car it melted the top of the tank a bit.

Cost to replace radiator + cap + hoses and a flush (Midas filled it with water) is $680. Then there is also a major oil leak, and they are not sure what it is yet. On top of that we found a milky substance in radiator resevoir. My friend says it's because they put water in the radiator tank, but i have also heard a milky white substance can be because of a leaky/defective head gasket. The garage says there could likely be some engine damage on top of all this because when the breakdown happened the cars hose slipped off and it lost radiator fluid and had no oil. I know in the past they have found oil in the spark plugs, when i replaced the 2 coil.

Also the front brakes are worn out and the car has several lights out. The heat wont work and the cruise control light wont go on. Not sure if this is just a fuse?

The mechanic at the second place said that i could end up spending 1-2 thousand fixing the radiator and oil leak and then i'd still have body work to do, brakes, the other 2 coils at some point + whatever else happens to the car.

So should i put anymore money into this car or is it totaled? Same exact cars in way better condition, are selling for 3 grand. Just to get my car back on the road will be at least a grand and as much as 2 depending on the oil leak issue. This doesn't even factor in any potential engine damage, work that's yet to need to be done, or body damage (bumper, headlight, several other lights, brakes, a tire). So far i've done the timing belt, water pump and 2 coils.

 
Rep Power: 518

The root cause of the major mess was (most likely) the head gasket blew. Coolant was lost then it overheated bad enough to damage the radiator (steam erosion) and probably warped the head at the same time.


Head gasket, machining, maybe a timing belt, and some of us don't know how hot it really got but there could be other damage (rings) if it got really hot, and that may not become apparent until much later.

Yeah you can easily be looking at 1-2k in a shop, depending on the shop. Is the car worth it? That's something only you can decide.

Heat should come back when the above is fixed and the cooling system can stay full....assuming nobody dumped stop-leak in the radiator and clogged up the heater.

Oil leak is most likely any of 3 things: the warped head, VTEC valve gaskets (if equipped), and cam plug at the rear of the head. There's also a cam seal behind the pulley. Those are probably the most likely items but not the only possibilities.
Easy while the head gasket job is getting done and should really be included in the work.


Cruise....just a light out --but it still works ok? Light bulb in the main switch can be replaced for a few bucks.

Brake job and lights out, that's just part of owning a car. Fix as needed. They are easy and cheap if you DIY.

 
Rep Power: 0

Timing belt/water pump was already done last year.

The way it went down is first the car had an issue to start. Then it started, but on the way home i noticed it couldn't go past 60 and the engine light came on. Next morning i went to autozone to get it scanned and it starts smoking. The guy said to take it to the garage. Went to Midas. They told me at first 14 codes showed up but after it cleared out it was the 3 coil. At this point the car seems to drive fine, but the temp gauge climbs and climbs. After about 3 miles steam is coming out of the radiator res. Fixing the radiator issue alone would be around $680 at this shop and really that's just so they can do a pressure test and see if that's the primary issue.

They haven't looked at the engine and said there could be damage there from this that could surface later. The oil leak has to be fixed. To me it just seems like between the radiator, oil leak, and engine i'm looking at LEAST at 2 grand. Then i'm still stuck with a car that is not even close to inspectable and has 2 more coils + whatever else to be handled. On the other side of it the mechanic said maybe there is no damage to the engine and oil leak issue isnt too costly. If that were the case id get out of this for 1 grand, but it sounds like your pretty sure engine damage was done. The car seems to run fine but with it overheating i can't take it on the highway to really test it, and the mechanic guy said it could be close to done and we wouldn't know now. He said the fact they found oil in the spark plugs a few months ago (replaced 2 coil), it is likely the engine is pretty tired.

 
Rep Power: 518

I wouldn't need to spend money on a radiator to tell you it needs the head gasket job (and probably more), but I am more familiar with these cars than most general mechanics. I can test and prove the need without the radiator being fixed.

If your local Midas wants almost 700 to install a radiator (seems quite pricey, suggest you call around), I'd hate to hear how much money they would want to butcher a head gasket job.
Rest assured, it needs it...but it may not be worth it. You have to decide..

 
Rep Power: 0

Well thanks man you have been helpful. What i don't get is that a 3 coil failing should not cause the head gasket to blow, and if it did then how come the car still drives? I do tend to agree with you though, in fact i suspect the issue started a while back as a small leak. That's really what i wanted to try to see is if you guys think there is engine damage. It makes it not worth it along with everything else. Between all the work needed to be done that's just a lot of money for an old car. It still hasn't had tranny issues, 2 more coils will go, 02 sensor hasn't gone, needs a windshield, needs 5 or 6 lights, a tire, a new bumber, front brakes/rotars.

I got 2700 right now and i got to find a job. If i'm lucky i got another 1800 coming in. Just sounds like i'm better off finding a good deal on a cheap older car that is already inspected in this state. Then, if i have a job i can save up some more cash and have that car to trade in. This car has a rebuilt title so i can't even trade it for scrap with a car dealer. A real bummer, i was wanting to get closer to 300k with this Honda. Only made it half way.

 
Rep Power: 518

The engine is well known for blowing the head gasket....and most people don't figure it out right away because it begins as so slight a leak it only causes coolant to slowly disappear or the heater to be weak or run a little hot. They might top off the radiator and it's ok for a while so they don't think much of it.....until it runs hot.
Repeat several times until it's bad enough to figure out, or it's completely trashed.


Most people only know one or two ways to check for a head gasket problem, not 15 different ways.
Most of these (in the beginning stages of failure) will easily pass every head gasket check most people can think of, but it will always fail one certain test when they are blown. That's the test I do first.



The fact that it's been hot enough to burn the neck out of the radiator from steam erosion, tells me a whole lot about how hot it has been....and I know to expect the head is likely to be warped from being that hot.

Coils on that engine are not a high failure item IMO. I don't push hard to sell a full set if one goes dead.

 
Rep Power: 127

headgasket ..

 
Rep Power: 0

So today i watched some video's and tried some things. Goal is to try to keep the car from overheating so i can drive it around locally, while i look for another car. Right now it only can do about 4 miles round trip. You guys say it has headgasket damage, but would that cause the overheating at this point too? My impression from the mechanic is that the overheat is because the engine got too hot during this incident and melted the seal where the cap meets the radiator, so that is a seperate issue. Let me know if i'm wrong because i will continue to mess around.

Tried a new cap but that did not work. I felt the hoses and all were hot (one of them apparently slipped off during all this), there was one hose that runs to a very low point under the hood, much lower than the other hoses, and that one was not hot at all it was cold. Not sure if this hose is part of the radiator system though. Steam continues to start coming from the res and i do hear boiling, but cant remember what boiling means. The fluid IS going down, so i know that the car is using radiator fluid, although it's mostly water in there still at this point, with very minimal coolant. There was a youtube video that said if it's a headgasket the liquid won't go down and it will just bubble.

Anyways at this point i've shifted from trying to see if there is engine damage, to just trying to keep the car going longer without overheating. I tried keeping the cap loose, putting another cap, cranking the heat and rolling down the windows and not much difference. I may try getting a proxy or something to put on the upper lip of the radiator to make it seal with the cap better. Other than that the only other lead i have atm is if that cold hose is part of the radiator system. In that event it could be a hose contributing to this. For all i know if i add more radiator fluid it might get the issue under control, but i don't know much so i will keep researching.

 
Rep Power: 518

Figure out how to keep the radiator full of liquid, and probably keep the fan running to keep it cool. Running the heater full blast will help too. It will never be able to work as designed so best you can do is keep it filled and fans running on it.

The head gasket leak will continue to push liquid out of the radiator no matter if the radiator is fixed or not.

===========================

It's a 2 way deal. One leads to the other, either way.

The blown head gasket (typical root cause) causes overheating after so much antifreeze has been pushed out of the radiator that cooling capacity is compromised.
The systems run on the very edge of efficiency to begin with, any loss of liquid can make the engine run hot very quickly.

Overheating causes damage to the head gasket (and cylinder head becomes damaged above certain temperatures).

========

The cooling system (radiator and all that) relies on liquid in the system to transfer heat from the engine to the air.

Water boils at 212*F. Agreed?

Antifreeze raises the boiling point of water, a 50/50 mix raises boiling point to about 225*F at one atmosphere (sea level). (going from memory here)

Any modern engine cooling system relies on becoming pressurized to raise the boiling point of the liquid inside it (physics 101).
15 PSI is an average cap relief pressure. This raises the boiling point of the 50/50 mix above to about 265*F.

Overheating above the (approx)265*F boiling point of the pressurized radiator full of antifreeze mix (boiling = steam, and lots of it), then causes the system to vent excess pressure past the relief cap.....the resulting steam then burned out the nylon (plastic) in the neck of the radiator.... Now the cooling system can't become pressurized and boiling point is lowered to about 225 if it's still got antifreeze mix in it.

 
Rep Power: 0

Interesting. I guess that means I might be able to help it a little bit by adding more coolant (currently it's 90/10 water).

What I wonder is if this head gasket has been somewhat responsible for these coils going all along. I know head gasket doesn't have a code and they got coil 2 misfire and replaced that, and at the time also replaced the spark plugs because they were saturated in oil. Then 3 months later it's coil 3 misfire. Replaced coil 3. I wonder if it's actually the head gasket that has caused the majority of my issues all along. I know at times car would struggle to pickup speed, sometimes to start, sometimes rumbling at idle. 2 years ago the car even had a similar overheat issue, but then mysteriously resolved itself for unknown reasons.

The radiator is now melted, but I wonder if I replaced it, and got the oil leak under control how long id have to do the head gasket. My blind guess is 1-3 months if I'm lucky. This has all been pretty informative ezone, many times I really wish I had become a mechanic.

 
Rep Power: 518

I think you're fighting the loss of liquid (I assume) more than anything.
Loss of liquid means reduced cooling capacity, thus inability to shed heat quickly, thus overheating.

Depending on conditions, one of these might overheat after losing only a quart of liquid form the radiator. The systems have very little reserve capacity, no room for error.

Coils, probably not related.....not unless they were affected by the overheat events.
Was a coil or two bad? Sure, could be.

A thought though....After the head gasket blows, antifreeze can enter cylinders and cause misfires, might last for a little bit after startup, maybe a minute or so..... until that spark plug can get dried off enough to fire again.. Could this be why someone replaced coils on it? I have no idea.

Hmmm.

No no no... The engine problem may ruin a brand new radiator during the first good overheat.

You can buy a radiator for ....$120ish from a parts store, but an overheat event is likely going to cause the same damage your current radiator already suffers.


Any idea what the oil leak source is?

No you don't. lol

 
Rep Power: 0

OK so then sounds like you think the head gasket went, which caused the car to overheat and then fried the 3 coil? Idk. Regardless it sounds like ID have to do them both at the same time (radiator/gasket). The oil leak started a while back as a small leak, but recently a bolt fell out of the oil pan, and I think that MAY be part of why the leak has gotten worse. Mechanic said he had it in there for 45 minutes and had a 6 inch puddle of oil, and I went through a quart in a week right before all this happened. Up until recently the car could go a few weeks before it went through a quart. So it could be as simple as the bolt to get it under control but to completely solve it, we don't know. Mechanic said it could be as simple as a seal or the repair for the oil leak alone could get up to around a thousand.

I do have a guy who gets 50% off parts and charges 37.5 per hour on labor (half cost on labor and parts compared to my current mechanic). Still considering giving him a go at this, it's possible with him I could get out of this for as little as a grand, but I'm worried about damage to the engine overall at this point, even after the head gasket is replaced. Then there's still all the other body issues and brake issues.The alternative atm would be to find a used car up around 200k and take my chances with that, but after stickers/tags ect that's up around 2 grand, and who is to say that would buy me more time than putting the grand into the civic?? Most people feel there's just too many issues with the civic to put any more money into it.

 
Rep Power: 518

You can buy used engines for these fairly reasonable (500 range and up), but one should go through and do some basic service stuff before it goes into the car.

Head gasket, timing belt, seals,, etc to make it as reliable as possible.
Just a thought to think about.

Would still need the radiator on top of that.

 
Rep Power: 367

just...
forget the coils and do the tests outlined in the first post in this thread.

one of them is the test ezone mentioned about that does not fail to pinpoint the head gasket leak.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...reference.html

 
Rep Power: 127

what state do you live in... maybe someone on here can give you advice where to take it for cheaper and has a hook up... someone that will do good work, and not ram you.. so you wont need vaseline after the bill..