When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
With the EGR valve removed the exhaust gas that it regulates will vent to atmosphere.
It may also cause a miss fire.
You're looking to see if you have a leaking
-valve cover seal
-camshaft plug
-vtec solenoid seal (if applicable)
-rear main seal
Research the above items so you understand their function/location
The leak is visible from the front, so solenoid is in rear, I believe. Valve cover seal is completely fine, I inspected it well. Rear main seal, hmmmmm, is this on crankshaft? With these sideways mounted engines (front wheel drive) I am always confused about what is "front" and "rear". I think rear means monted against tranny (right?).Wouldnt that be buried inside the AT? The leak is top right of head. Way above the main seal, unless I am wrong about where main seal is.
Yes, the front of the engine is always the belt side of the crank shaft, as the rear is always the transmission side of the crank shaft.
I only mentioned the rear main because it is in line with the leak area. If the rear main is leaking bad enough it can cost the clutch or flywheel and spray all along the transmission bell housing area. But it's probably too low, as you mentioned.
Yes, the front of the engine is always the belt side of the crank shaft, as the rear is always the transmission side of the crank shaft.
I only mentioned the rear main because it is in line with the leak area. If the rear main is leaking bad enough it can cost the clutch or flywheel and spray all along the transmission bell housing area. But it's probably too low, as you mentioned.
Right, Mac. If one looks at my picture the CLEANER oozing oil is way up top, near the bottom of the head, oozing downward making a trail downward, picking up all kinds of dirt. Doubt it is from a rear main seal, which is internal (right?).
Well, you guys are the best! I need yous ! I cleaned it up sparkling moments ago. Drying out tonight. Will start engine tomorrow, and use a mirror/light to view the very tight crack at bottom of head. With talc.
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 519
Re: Oozing oil/headgasket
a rear main seal, which is internal (right?).
A leaking rear main (rear crankshaft seal) would pass oil into the inside of the bellhousing area (where the flywheel/torque converter or clutch are), oil would only be leaking out of the bottom of the bellhousing area. Not above the bellhousing.
Also....you discussed front/rear of an engine, but when the engine sits sideways in the engine compartment you sometimes need to clarify if you mean front of the car, or front of the engine, etc., so there's less confusion.
Similar: Left and right of any vehicle are always determined as one sits in the drivers seat facing forward. Kinda like port and starboard on a boat.
A leaking rear main (rear crankshaft seal) would pass oil into the inside of the bellhousing area (where the flywheel/torque converter or clutch are), oil would only be leaking out of the bottom of the bellhousing area. Not above the bellhousing.
Also....you discussed front/rear of an engine, but when the engine sits sideways in the engine compartment you sometimes need to clarify if you mean front of the car, or front of the engine, etc., so there's less confusion.
Similar: Left and right of any vehicle are always determined as one sits in the drivers seat facing forward. Kinda like port and starboard on a boat.
Right, ezone. We agree that it can not be rear crank seal (whew!), as it is not dripping from bottom of belll housing, but the bell housing exterior is covered in oil! We eliminated that!
Im also gonna buy a uv light kit, and add dye. Baby powder, dye, cool glasses, all methods to slam dunk this leak problem.
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 519
Re: Oozing oil/headgasket
Originally Posted by Slumpertcivic
I bet it’s less times than I have had reported “oil leaks” that were nothing more than drips from normal oil changes.
To be fair, pulling off those d series oil filters is a messy process.
When there's already a huge mess and a large or rapid leak, if you can't be in a position to watch for fresh dye when it FIRST STARTS coming out then by the time you see it again it's just the same huge mess that's now kinda fluorescent.
All in all, oil dye has helped maybe twice in my career
The powder method works far better for me, as long as rain doesn't wash it away before we get to see it again
(Dye in AC systems is absolutely wonderful though)
i would suggest you just replace the following items,
- valve cover gasket
- cam end plug
- EGR gasket
those are really the only possibilities, they are all cheap too
Mikey, you have helped me all along so far, but those are NOT the only possibilities. There so far, is no evidence that those are the only possibilities. As I have explained, the valve cover gasket is tip top shape- just done by a pro not long ago. So far, after removing that huge black "box" to expose that cam plug last night, it also does not show evidence of leaks- clean, and dry. The ERG does not show evidence of leakage.
I hope very much that you are right, and I am wrong. But tomorrow Im gonna do another test that I thought of. Plus the baby powder.
IMO Overkill and unnecessary expense, especially if you'll never use it again.
I could tell you how many times dye has actually helped me find an oil leak...
Thanks, ezone, good to know that dye is not so easy to use. Expense? I had the dye, had it for years. Got it for free (dont ask how). Light was just $10. Small gamble. I may return it though, unused. I did buy the athletes foot spray can powder! That advice should be useful. Too busy to work on car today, maybe tomorrow.....
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 519
Re: Oozing oil/headgasket
This pic should show why the head gasket cannot leak oil at the rear of the engine....there is only the water jacket (coolant) in that area.
The 4 odd shaped ports are oil returns to the pan, the only pressurized oil passage is the small hole located between the center cylinders on the intake side of the block
EGR cannot leak oil either, but it needs removed to make room to replace that plastic cam plug.
Ezone, I always wondered about that, why our cars cant leak oil from head gasket, at least at that area. But, I just tried a test which was not mentioned here, to pop off the radiator coolant reservoir overflow, and poured out the brownish looking coolant. Guess what I found? Oil in the coolant! First, before pouring it out, I shook it a bit to "mix it up", to kind of homogenize it, then poured it in a glass beaker. After just 2-3 minutes the green coolant and brown oil separated!
I could put up a pic, but not sure why necessary. Shouldnt we now conclude that this is scientific evidence that the head gasket is leaking the oil? What else could do this, I mean? I mean, yeah, I could do the baby powder test for the heck of it, not hard to do, but we got oil in the coolant.
Powder test showed, to the best of my ability, head gasket leak. It came from a crevice so hidden, so hard to shine a light on, behind a short stubby "wall" on cylinder head, about 3mm tall, 1cm in length. I sprayed some powder well up in there, so as to create a dam. The dam first became soaked with oil, before proceeding to travel toward bell housing crack. First I was fooled, seeing bell housing gush with oil, ans scared! Thinking rear main seal. But geez, so far up high, at level of head-to-block height> Thats when I repeated the test, creating that "dam".
I cant think of any other test to do which would be useful. Combined with the oil in coolant, head gasket failure. Can a rear main seal leak ever cause oil in coolant? No, right? Other than the mech who did the valve cover gasket 1-2 years ago no one else molests my car. He would have had to be drunk to put oil in my coolant. he did a good job, finding other leaky stuff to replace whilst there (I knew, I saw those items). Anyway, think I now have a leaky head gasket (based on my info, of course)?
Im gonna start a new thread titled head gasket. I already have 2 questions about it!!
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 519
Re: Oozing oil/headgasket
Shouldnt we now conclude that this is scientific evidence that the head gasket is leaking the oil? What else could do this
I have a hard time visualizing the head gasket on this particular engine failing in the way you describe, without ALSO giving more obvious and well known symptoms of overheating and barfing liquid out of the reservoir.
You cleaned it out, now is it filling back up with brown stuff again?
Has it ever had the head gasket replaced?
Could be 'leftovers' you see from previous events or previous work.
Stop leak?
There have been mentions of cars with a sticky dark film in the coolant reservoir
He would have had to be drunk to put oil in my coolant.
You'd probably be amazed at how easy it is to pour some wroooooong fluid into a funnel. Sober.
I have a hard time visualizing the head gasket on this particular engine failing in the way you describe, without ALSO giving more obvious and well known symptoms of overheating and barfing liquid out of the reservoir.
You cleaned it out, now is it filling back up with brown stuff again?
Has it ever had the head gasket replaced?
Could be 'leftovers' you see from previous events or previous work.
Stop leak?
There have been mentions of cars with a sticky dark film in the coolant reservoir
You'd probably be amazed at how easy it is to pour some wroooooong fluid into a funnel. Sober.
Ezone, I tried the test suggested here- baby powder. I abandoned the test advised against here- dye. Never used stop leak. I didnt refill the coolant res and drive it again, perhaps needed to be driven for a few days, to see it goo/oil leaked in there again.If the baby powder test recommended here was good/reliable and it indicated the direction of the leak (as I explained, with the "dam" effect) why should I question it? One well meaning, well intentioned fellow member insisted that it had to be EGR, valve cover, or plug, which are not leaking. I verified it. What else could it be?
I once had a pro mech tell me that a car didnt need a head gasket (an old pontiac). It did. It was a 50/50 chance. I was right. Maybe Im wrong now, but Im changing it. No other choice. I know if (hypothetically) you guys were able to advise me in person, you would do it/offer such help, but we have to go by, and are limited by internet dialogue.
I know we take chances every day. Nothing its guaranteed.
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 519
Re: Oozing oil/headgasket
I didnt refill the coolant res and drive it again, perhaps needed to be driven for a few days, to see it goo/oil leaked in there again.
I would drive it to see if more oil shows up in the radiator or reservoir.
. I'd also be checking for oil residue inside the radiator
and checking for cooling system hoses that have become mushy from exposure to oil
Oil floats on top of water/antifreeze so if the car is driven daily, given the normal expansion/contraction of coolant from thermal cycles---- any oil in the cooling system "should" eventually make its way to the reservoir and stay floating in there as long as the reservoir is not near empty
I didn't think I was telling you to not use the dye, use it if you want to...... I was relating my personal experience with it. (remember, I fix cars for a living, my needs aren't always the same as DIYers)
Dye has its merits, it can be very useful in certain situations and conditions , but for my needs in the shop other methods are usually more viable
Based on your first post about EXTERNAL oil leakage I would not have used dye for that.....
Now that you told us you think the cooling system has oil in it, I think this may be a good time/reason to use the oil dye. But the car would need driven to prove engine oil is making its way to the reservoir and that new oil found has the dye in it.
I would drive it to see if more oil shows up in the radiator or reservoir.
. I'd also be checking for oil residue inside the radiator
and checking for cooling system hoses that have become mushy from exposure to oil
Oil floats on top of water/antifreeze so if the car is driven daily, given the normal expansion/contraction of coolant from thermal cycles---- any oil in the cooling system "should" eventually make its way to the reservoir and stay floating in there as long as the reservoir is not near empty
I didn't think I was telling you to not use the dye, use it if you want to...... I was relating my personal experience with it. (remember, I fix cars for a living, my needs aren't always the same as DIYers)
Dye has its merits, it can be very useful in certain situations and conditions , but for my needs in the shop other methods are usually more viable
Based on your first post about EXTERNAL oil leakage I would not have used dye for that.....
Now that you told us you think the cooling system has oil in it, I think this may be a good time/reason to use the oil dye. But the car would need driven to prove engine oil is making its way to the reservoir and that new oil found has the dye in it.
Understood. And it's so much appreciated to communicate with a pro, and with the quick replies. Been a bit busy last 24 hours, so limited testing/work on car. I could/should do that coolant test- drive car for a few days, and see if oil in coolant again-that could indicate more info.
Now, ezone, sometimes one stumbles on to things by accident- with the car sitting for a day, and after I cleaned everything of oil/dirt over a day ago I noticed just now that the oil is oozing out again, right on top right front where cylinder meets block area. Wow- how does it do that without the car even running?! So, that should rule out tranny fluid from rad cooler, and some other stuff. Where could that ooze drop/ooze from, ezone? Shouldnt that source be from above, camshaft area? With just gravity? Leaking back down through a bad gasket on its way to the oil pan? I also noticed solenoid base/mounting base is geasy, but no way it can account for this new pool of oil. The pool is growing minute by minute, with car not having even been started/running for over a day. Cam plug is like new/clean still.
This new source of poooled oil is coming from above, right?
This pic should show why the head gasket cannot leak oil at the rear of the engine....there is only the water jacket (coolant) in that area.
The 4 odd shaped ports are oil returns to the pan, the only pressurized oil passage is the small hole located between the center cylinders on the intake side of the block
EGR cannot leak oil either, but it needs removed to make room to replace that plastic cam plug.
Ezone, any way you can draw say, red arrows to those 4 oil ports? I think I understand where they are, but want to be 100%. Just took another hard look back there with tiny light and seems theres just a tiny bit of oil around the solenoidn dont think thats the cause of the new pool of oil. Yes, its pooling as we speak.
On a huge stretch of possibilities that are insanely remote.
If I imagine the transmission cooler inside the radiator has failed and is now leaking into the coolant system. It would float to the highest point of the coolant system which would mean its in the coolant crossover tube right above where your describing.
The coolant tube oring is likely a decade beyond its intended lifespan so it would be no surprise the transmission fluid can seep past it.
Again not likely , but the other option seems to be your actual head is cracked. There is normally is a pool of oil that does not drain. If somehow the head is cracked that may result in that standing oil being able to drain.
On a huge stretch of possibilities that are insanely remote.
If I imagine the transmission cooler inside the radiator has failed and is now leaking into the coolant system. It would float to the highest point of the coolant system which would mean its in the coolant crossover tube right above where your describing.
The coolant tube oring is likely a decade beyond its intended lifespan so it would be no surprise the transmission fluid can seep past it.
Again not likely , but the other option seems to be your actual head is cracked. There is normally is a pool of oil that does not drain. If somehow the head is cracked that may result in that standing oil being able to drain.
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 519
Re: Oozing oil/headgasket
Wow- how does it do that without the car even running?
You're probably seeing oil residue that's creeping instead of a leak.
Creeping because the areas weren't cleaned absolutely spotless and dry. .
Including all the nooks and crannies that can hold and hide oil residue and dirt.
You're probably seeing oil residue that's creeping instead of a leak.
Creeping because the areas weren't cleaned absolutely spotless and dry. .
Including all the nooks and crannies that can hold and hide oil residue and dirt.
Brake parts cleaner does a pretty good job IMO
Makes sense if I truly did not clean all well, but I did. I cleaned it to obsession. First with engine clean/rinse with water, dry, then carb cleaner spray, which dries quickly. It was absolutely spotless. And I can see some residual drip/drain/ooze, but it was a relatively large pool. A few teaspoons full, guessing. I can not see where it would have creeped from.
With no consensus, I had to start taking all apart. No more siting around, guessing. Even with diagnostics one can be wrong, Im taking that chance. So, if you can continue to follow me with my project I would appreciate it very much, and see where it goes. So far I found 2 spark plug wells flooded with oil after removing valve cover. Intake removal a challenge. Can I unbolt the 2 bolts at very bottom of intake bracket (from under the engine, as they are buried) and remove entire head WITH intake attached? This would facilitate me removing the intake on a bench, I figure, rather that struggling to unbolt all from a strained angle in engine bay......
