Rep Power: 0

i'd rather go this way than turbo .. !! soo much maintenance for a turbo'd engine ..! my friend has a 97 civic with a b18a swap w/a garrett t3 turbo .. and he has soo many problems with it .. !!

 
Rep Power: 0

The are in covington georgia, you'll see the individual throttle bodies on a lot of racing engines. For cars like skylines, silvias, preludes, 240sx, etc.. they make kits that you can buy and bolt on yourself.. this is all custom. The throttle bodies will act as a "mass air" system, which is 20 times more effective than your stock intake, or even your CAI. You get awesome throttle response.

 
Rep Power: 0

Oh thansk Boost, i might be paying a visit to them next summer or early next year. Im guessing they never ran it in the quater mile

 
Rep Power: 0

not yet, still in the tuning stages.

 
Rep Power: 0

three q's

what is the compression ratio?

will it still be able to run on pump gas? (91 or 93)

isn't this kinda racing only application? My friend pointed out to me that with 4 individual throttle bodies this car as a daily driver will get lots of evil goodies (debris) going into the t.b.'s and into the intake mani to do bad things to the engine over time....What do u think Boost?

 
Rep Power: 0

93 is preffered for optimum performance if it's available where you are.. 91 is fine though.

Not sure on the compression ratio, will give exact numbers to you tomorrow.

I had the same question about the throttle bodies being open, because if it was ok.. then we'd all take our intakes off and run straight throttle body, you get more that way. BUT, John informed me that they are able to setup an air filtration system. If it's a daily driver, definately check into the filtered throttle bodies... or just leave it out, not as much hp.. but would still be a quick strong motor.

 
Rep Power: 0

ITBs are pimp. I remember seeing them a few years ago for my engine.



http://www.todaracing.com/products/h...ction_kit.html

Made by TODA even... which unfortunately is where part of that $2,650 price tag comes from.
Which brings me to my second point. I would never buy these for my car. Why? Because for that amount of money I can have a full turbo set up including a new T3/T4, FMIC, and the rest of the deal.
... and that’s JUST for the ITBs.

Same thing goes for this kit. 5-8K is a BUTTLOAD of money to throw into this car. I can’t see where performance gains outweigh the severe lack in value, but you always pay a high price to get decent power with fully NA means on small displacement 4 bangers.

I wouldn’t doubt, by any means, that for 5K you could have a complete turbo set up on a D17, that’s puts out as much if not more Hp then said NA rout.

Also, given the fact that the compression is raised, the pistons, connecting rods and everything else have been swapped out for lighter counterparts, as well as the more aggressive cam, and pretty much everything else, I wouldn’t count on using that 100 shot very often without replacing a melted piston or 2.

I REALLY want to see some dyno charts. Please post them as soon as you can. Even though Its not cost effective, I find this project to be very interesting.

 
Rep Power: 0

Actually the more complicated the NA tuning, the more hastle it is. I wouldnt doubt for a second that this application would ***** up as much if not more of your time then any turbo application.

 
Rep Power: 0

In general going N/A gives you the least bang-for-your-buck. It is just so much harder to produce power using the N/A route that you'll spend so much more $$$ than using a turbo setup that gives the same output. This has and always will be the rule.

Of course, turbo cars tend to have lots more problems than N/A cars. But proper tuning is the key, no matter which route you choose.

Awaiting some dyno charts on this setup...

 
Rep Power: 0

thats not exactly true. Why do you think car companies decide to put turbos on pretty much every high output 4 cyl instead of making them super high strung NA models? Cost? of course, but practicality also plays a MAJOR role in that decision.

 
Rep Power: 0

Well, the turbo kit that is available now has a 4g price tag on it, and these guys are only pushing like 6 psi right? So, they'd need to spend another 2 on their internals right? So.. I think it might break even there somewhere when it comes to the D17. I'm not knocking FI either, any serious import enthusiast loves the sound of a BOV and the way it feels when your dial reaches 3,000rpm and your head is thrown back into the seat. I will be putting a turbo on my GSR.. but I want a NA car for my showroom as well. You're right about the 100 shot.. it's set for full throttle, and won't be sprayed for too long, or too often. When I get ready to put my stage 3 turbo kit on the GSR I'll definately want to talk to you Joe. I talked to John, and because they've done this on their car already, worked all the kinks out 'n stuff. I'm getting the package for 5 grand.

 
Rep Power: 0

I'm a gear head though, I love getting inside the motor.. and seeing how it all works. NA can be a lot of fun.

 
Rep Power: 0

you wouldnt need to change internals for just 6 PSI. Hell, with proper tuning it could take 9 im sure.

And if you wanna throw in that block guard 1 bar could be reached. Ive seen a stock internaled B16 take 22 PSi (on race Gas, 18 on pump) for over a year with just a blovkguard, and superior tuning/care. In case you are wondering, its the same engine thats in the black viper killing civic hatch people were jacking off too.

On that note, I my self am thinking of picking up my friends used FMAX kit. 1500 bucks, and that includes a dual core FMIC.

 
Rep Power: 0

Cost, practicality, reliability. It's easier to slap a turbo on a 4-banger and make it high output. But there's a lot more maintenance involved, and repair work is more complicated, believe me. When I talk to fellow mechanics I know who work at Mitsubishi or Subaru dealerships, they're always complaining about how much a pain it is to fix a turbo engine when there's a problem with it. Thank god Honda has always produced high-output N/A engines - we almost never see cars that come into our repair shop where the problem is with the engine itself (unless the customer drives through a 4-foot puddle of water or something).

Granted, I'm not saying a turbo car can't be a reliable daily-driver. Generally speaking, it requires a bit more attention and maintenance, that's all.

 
Rep Power: 0

You fail to see my point. Were comparing a turbo car to a high strung NA car with independent throttle bodies and a standalone programmable ECU. U wanna talk about high maintenance?

BTW, I garunte the repairs for an S2000s engine would be a lot higher (for the same ammount of work) then on say, a WRX.

 
Rep Power: 0

This is like comparing apples to hamburgers. I fix cars at John Eagle Honda, so I know that a brand new F20C shortblock runs around $4800. I do not work at Gillman Subaru, so I have no idea what it costs to replace the bottom end of a WRX or what kind of labor rates Subaru charges. I can say that I have never seen an S2000 in our shop with a blown motor, with the sole exception of the guy with the red S2000 (license plate REDLNR) that put on a Comptech supercharger and proceeded to blow his motor 3 SEPARATE TIMES. And Honda basically forced us to repair it under warranty each time, even though it was his fault for not taking care of his car, turning up the boost too high, etc.

Anyways, back to the point. I personally would run a standalone ECU like Hondata in either case (N/A or F/I). But if I wanted the more reliable setup and I was given the choice of ITB's vs. a low boost turbo, I would go ITB's. ImportBuilders has done this on several street cars that are reliably making about 250 whp with careful Hondata tuning.

 
Rep Power: 0

what I meant is that you can only push about 6 on stock internals safely, you'd need to upgrade. I'm sure you could boost much, much higher.. and no doubt out do NA. There's no doubt about it.. forced induction will ALWAYS out perform NA. That's why it's there. This is just another option... something to set me apart. I'm sure H-town can relate [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] By the way, that hatchback is nice... like I said.. the GSR will get there.

 
Rep Power: 0

wish i had the ***** to do that

 
Rep Power: 0

OMG

 
Rep Power: 0

So you have the risk of sucking up a bunch of shiet through the throttle bodies, so this set up would not be recomended for my daily driving. How exactly can they fix that to not suck up debris during WOT

 
Rep Power: 0

they are called filters. this was addressed before, as well as it being common sense.

 
Rep Power: 0

[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 0

Haha haha ur fu cking hilarious. I know it was adressed just wondering if I should get this if its my daily driver

 
Rep Power: 0

I don't understand what is all the fuss over sucking up debris through individual throttle bodies. Your air filter mechanism should be more than adequate for cleaning the air stream. ITB's should be fine for daily driving, just make sure you have it tuned properly and give it enough fuel (bigger injectors if necessary). If you're sucking in air at 4x the normal rate, you better make sure you're not running lean.

 
Rep Power: 0

Thansk for the info Htown. Lets keep this thread up I want to hear more about this and seea dyno sheet if possible

 
Rep Power: 362

so very intresting.

hmm maybe u can run Black99Vtec with all his mods.

 
Rep Power: 0

No he cant, due to the fact that Black's car is completly fictitious.

 
Rep Power: 0

I'll get dyno sheets as soon as KMS produces them, any of ya'll should feel free to call them yourselves to check progress.. John is excited to talk to anyone about that engine.

 
Rep Power: 0

definitely post the dyno on here once you get them, thanks boost

 
Rep Power: 0

Definitely sweet
But being from australia im not about to fly over there
to get KMS to do it for me, does anyone know any
exact info on what parts were used, how much of this or that
they done etc...?? so that I could get a shop in OZ to do
it for me??