Rep Power: 399

Hmmm.... I don't have a video of me racing a Mustang GT anymore. I had 2 at one point.... one was the 99GT I raced and won 7 of 10 races. (2 he redlighted, and one he beat me at the light) However, I ran a faster ET and trap every time.

You may not want to believe it, but the fact is this. A stock S2k vs a stock 5 Spd GT is a very close race. However, the mustang will get maybe at best 2-3 lengths ahead through 2nd gear. After that, however, it's all S2k. The S2k starts to pull pretty good through 3rd, and by 4th gear it's bye bye. Given equal drivers, the S2k has the advantage and will probably win.

Ok... this first video is me VS an LT1 camaro SS (little more HP than a regular LT1) and it's a 6 speed. His car is stock. TThis is a friend of mine who I have raced more times than I can count. We are almost always dead even. I've run 13.7 stock, and he also ran 13.7 stock. (on the same day actually!)

This race I win, simply cuz I won the launch.
right click, save as SS vs S2000

Now this race is that EXACT same Camaro SS racing a new Mustang GT 5spd. The camaro does very much the same that an S2000 does when racing a new GT. The GT gets a little lead at the beginning, but by 3rd gear the SS is passing and blows by him by the time the GT reaches 4th gear.

right click, save as SS vs GT

 
Rep Power: 399

bump.

I've added the videos above

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the links. You guys sure do not like to sleep at night
I guess the weight of S2k plays a big role on 3th and 4 th gears, after all it is nearly 500 pounds lighter than Mustang GT.
S2000 Cool car!

 
Rep Power: 0

ls vtechs die in like 6 months lol.. every ls vtech i've heard of has had problems such as a blown motor in the first 6 months lol

 
Rep Power: 399

yeah ls/vtec is not an easy one to tune and many tuners aren't good at doing it. therefore a general high failure rate.

and vytas, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of S2k owners out there who can't drive so good and will handily lose to a GT.

and no we don't sleep. and we have some of the best street races there are.

 
Rep Power: 0

nope never looked at a dyno sheet of a s2000. When I drove the car it had 0 power till vtec kicked in. The miata will/does destroy s2000 on a scca solo II course. I see it every time i am out there. Scca II is not a road coarse. its a autocross. Not to be mean but the s2000 can't go around the coarse as fast as a miata. miata is to well balanced. IF THE stock number on a SKID pad are better with a s2k I would bet money that is playing largely in part of what kind of tires are on them stock. Not to be rude, but I wittness this stuff in real life. A s2000 is a lot faster car then a miata in a straight line, no doubt about that. I would rather own a s2k then a miata. However a miata would own it in any race scca solo II race in stock classes. And as far as a vette keeping up with it. Vettes usually beat a s2000 too. However this is all drive oriented. But I do think the s2000 is just a bit under powered cause most of the time in a scca course u stay in second and it will fall into real rpms in second.

 
Rep Power: 399

it's ironic you think the car has no power til vtec kicks in..... you do realize that if you put a miata and S2k side by side, start both at 1000rpm and floor it, that the S2k will pull on the miata even BEFORE it hits vtec at 6000rpm. so if you think the S2k is underpowered, what do you call the miata?

And the auto X. Sure, a modded miata may beat an S2k no problem. Given equal drivers however, a stock miata will not.

 
Rep Power: 380

Has any one noticed that this Is all purly speculation untill some one actually trys it. Right?

The Scca Classes a Chevrolet Corvette C5 ('97+) IN SS. The S2000 is classed, BS right with BMW's M3(E30) M(E36) Z3 6 cyl NOC allong with the Audi TT (225hp, dual intercoolers) incl. ALMS Coupe and Chevrolet Camaro SS ('96+), Corvette ('63-'82). all of these are in B Stock. The Mazda Miata 1.8 (all, includes Club Sport) is classed C stock, right next to the Toyota MR-2 Supercharged and the MR2 Spyder also C stock. The Acura Integra Type R and the RSX-S ('02+) dont even show up untill D Stock. So what does this all mean. Simple. According to the SCCA SOlO 2 car classification in Stock classses.


1. A C5 Covette (97+) should be faster then an S2000 on the track.
2. The S2000 should be well matched by the AUDI TT (225Hp, Dual Intercoolers version) 2 Generations of Bmw's M3 (BOth the Original E30 and the 2nd gen E36) a Comaro SS (96+) and the 63-82 corvette.
3. The Miata should get beaten by the S2000.
4. Every bodys favorite, The INtegra type R and the RSX-S should get beaten by the Miata.

There, It cant be any simpler.

 
Rep Power: 399

Hmmm. I thought I had rememered the C5 in BS class. Has that changed recently?

 
Rep Power: 0

miata is vasly underpowered but its a 19k car. its not going to be fast but it does handle better.

 
Rep Power: 380

Check out stock classes HERE
It looks like the S2000 was changed to B stock in 2002.

And PatrickB, you can build a Spec Miata car for around 10,000. or buy one for under 5,000 Spec Miata Home Page


ps. The miata has been called the Best British Roadser EVER!!!!

 
Rep Power: 0

BMW's are as common as day, they are not distinctive looking nor are they performance oriented. At least the majority anyway. My dad's C5 beat an M3 awhile back. His vette is modded a bit, but not significantly. It's a good run for the money but not good enough. It'd beat my C4 though.

 
Rep Power: 0

What is vtech? Did you invent it? The only thing I have heard of is VTEC... but you must be the expert?

 
Rep Power: 0

So are Corvettes. The M3 is far more unique than a C5. And they are common for a reason (3 Series). C5 vs M3 is a drivers race. They don't call it the ultimate driving machine for nothing. The Z06 might have better performance numbers but the M3 is by far a better overall car. The interior of a C5 is cheap and the seats do not offer much support considering its performance levels. The C5 including the ZO6 is a great value and good car, but the M3 is the standard of the class.

 
Rep Power: 0

there are so many fixed up miatas here. I think Louisville boast the second fastest miata in the country that runs a low 11 at a faster mph then the fastest one in the country. Several turbo miatas here.

 
Rep Power: 0

If this were true, then the SCCA would not have placed the Miata in a slower class. The MR2-spyder guys would have complained to the SEB to have the Miata moved into BS a while ago if it were as fast as the S2k with equal drivers and equal courses.

In your region...regional results are very very very driver dependent. Hell, I regularly beat a Hoosier-shod Z06 in my S2k running Kuhmos in my region, but I know that is driver and not the car.

It is better to look at the results from a National Tour where all the competitors run on the same days. (The National Championship is run over several days and track conditions can vary greatly...last year was a great example of that as the track got much much more sticky with rubber as the week went on...the guys running on the last day had a line that was increadibly sticky compared to the guys running on day 1) Unfortunately, Ft Myers Nat Tour is the only Tour this year that is somewhat representative. There the S2ks were a couple seconds faster than the Miatas. The San Francisco Tour had lots of rain, but the S2ks were still about a sec faster. And the Houston Tour really did not have a Nationally competitive set of Miata drivers as the other two events have had, so the S2ks walked away be many seconds.

Personally, I don't find the S2k's lack of low end torque a problem on the autox course...you simply keep the car in VTEC. I would never let the S2k get much below 6k rpm without downshifting...certainly never down to low rpm in 2nd. In skid pad tests I've done, I've found that holding a lower gear that maintains VTEC will allow a couple more mph around the circle over a higher gear that may let the car drop out of VTEC while modulating the throttle to maintain balance.

I seriously campaigned a Miata about 10 years ago in SOLO II. And now I play on the autox course in an S2k. (BTW, I had an e36m3 in between and I can tell you that the S2k eats the e36m3 on the autox course.)

The Miata is a much easier to drive...actually, most anything is easier to drive than an S2k. They are very unforgiving. However, given equal drivers and equal courses, the S2k has the potential to turn better times than the Miata. The SCCA did place them in a faster class for a reason. And the SCCA's classing decision takes into account the fact that stock class is not really "stock", but allows for front swaybar, shocks, tires, lighter wheels, etc.

To me the real question would be: if the Miata had the same power to weight ratio as the S2k, would it be faster on the autox course? I think it probably would...part of that is due to it's size, as it is shorter and narrower than the S2k, which makes a big difference in the distance the Miata has to travel compared to the S2k (especially in slaloms).

Having driven the cars back to back on a course, the cars are very close in many areas. Not many regions use the pivot cone turn-around, but that is about the only pure handling area where I honestly give the S2k an advantage. IMHO, the rest of the S2k's advantage comes from its superior acceleration from the 100 extra ponies under the hood.

As another data point, Darrin DiSimo, who is a national level Miata driver, took a run in my car (which is not fully built to stock class rules) and turned in a time that was nearly a second faster than in his Miata (which is built to the max of the stock rules)...it was his first run ever in an S2k.

 
Rep Power: 0

I stand correct then. The guys here must really suck at teh drivin!

:-P I STILL OWN YOU :-D

 
Rep Power: 0

Nope,

the C4 is also a SS car, as is the C5...

The NSX is SS, and I think the RX7TT was AS I think the E36 M3 is also an AS car, but I might be wrong on that... going from memory here -- been YEARS since I autocrossed... gave it up for track days

 
Rep Power: 399

e36m3 is B-stock

C4 and C5 is A-stock

 
Rep Power: 0

The classes got shuffled 2 years ago. The C5 and RX-7tt are SS; the C4 and NSX are AS; the e36m3 is in BS.

You can see all the cars and their classifications here:

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/index.html

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the link... pretty neat having a nice reference like that

 
Rep Power: 399

negcamber sounds like he really knows his stuff. It'd be great to see him run in his S2k.

 
Rep Power: 0

Well, its nice to see that there are people here who truly know about cars and driving, and that speed is just more than the car.

My experience here at PIR was that the Vette was a faster car all around, but then there are only 2 "slow" corners at this track, the rest of them are relatively quick (60+).

However, one thing that was definitely holding back the Vette were its cruddy run-flat tires. But it gave the car plenty of luggage space Thats the concession GM made with their Vette being a GT car, while the S2000 is more of the pure sports car (little concession for anything except performance). The S2000 had those nice sticky S02s.

People like to compare them, but having owned both I can tell you they are very different cars. The Vette is a larger, heavier car with a lot more comfort built in for a broader market. The S2000 is really an enthusiast car. No weight adding power seats, dual zone A/C, Bose stereo, etc on the S2000... heck, I'm surprised Honda put in power windows!

 
Rep Power: 0

I agree with run-flats, I'm trying to convince my dad to get run-flats on his C5 but he doesn't want to, namely because he's had 2 flat tires already during the year he's owned one. My C4 has run-flats on them, don't ask me why, the guy before me put them on, despite the fact that the C4 has a spare. You can get Kumhos on Ebay for as low as $200 for a set of 4, according to another Vette owner....

As for BMW's, it's personal preference, there's a lot of them for a reason, cause people like it. I'm not one of those people, just my opinion. The corvette is ok, I'm already selling mine after 2 weeks of owning it. I really want a Tiburon, which I hear is a good autocrosser too...

 
Rep Power: 0

Yeah, those run-flats on the C4 were actually an option in the final year or 2 of C4 production, but if your car has a spare it is kind of funny the guy would put run flats on your car.

I've heard both good and bad on Kumhos... seems like they are cheap for almost any car though...

A Tiburon might be fun in the GS class (V6).

I think a HUGE part of the allure of the Vette is because its an American Legend. Some people just have been buying them over and over. I like the C5 because to me it represents a HUGE leap forward in American cars (which I am not otherwise a fan of) and for the most part its well constructed. There aren't too many cars on the road that have the structural strength of the C5, much less at ~30-40k for some hardly used ones. But, its really still about performance. If I wanted something more comfortable luxurious, I'd probably be looking at the G35s. The new Z doesn't do much for me...

Of course, I'm still up in the air about what kind of vehicle I will get after I graduate. Maybe I will just save for a house

 
Rep Power: 399

I'm glad honda put in the power top for the S2k as well. Topless in about 6 seconds.

 
Rep Power: 0

Yeah, that power top WOWED my Corvette buddies. They were amazed at how fast it dropped. Of course, they weren't too keen of the plastic rear window which has since been addressed...

 
Rep Power: 0

Nothing wrong with those Vettes. I think you're right about the lure of an American Legend. It's one of those love/hate things. The seats in the C4 are far more comfortable than the C5's, although they both use cheap imitation leather.... I still like my Vette, but I think it'd be more fun and less stressful if it was a 2nd car. I love the S2000's. I hear Honda is coming out with a new CRX. I hope they do something nice to those. They were way popular when I was in high school 10 years ago, so that same age group can afford more car so they better make it a good one if it's true...

Saving for a house it what I *should* be doing...

 
Rep Power: 0

Guess not, but it's got a 2.2!!

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthrea...hreadid=123834

 
Rep Power: 0

OK yes the s2000 is badass and no you cant compare it to
a miata which more resembles a del sol . A charged s2000 would be
the ultimate sports car i test drove one it handled great and with only 240 horses it had great acceleration and even eccelerating out of turns the back end still stuck it is a true sports car except for the drop top maybe they should make a hard top version for 05 or something